Jose Mourinho

[hamsup_sotong]

Right now all the creative burden is on ndombele and the balance is way way way off

 

[rez9000]

No, but I'm not sure they are phoning it in, or not intentionally anyway. The reality is that bad management does create worse workers even if it's not intentional right. If you don't believe in the project how can you really put all of yourself into it? I mean I'd quit, because it's a tension that requires a resolution. Players can't quit. It's a very different kind of situation.

I think we are trying to carry out jose's tactical plan, the difference is that those three managers have working tactical plans at the moment. It's not about liking it, it's if you don't believe it works how are you to work with it? Players often get the blame for tactics anyway (see Winks always passes it sideways, Lloris kicking it short criticism etc) and visa versa mind, and people make the same complaints.

The difference between what I feel is happening and those three managers is that those three managers are all masters of knowing how to build attacks. they have clear systematic approach, in Conte's whole style is actually built on pre-thought actions and movements aimed at exploiting space,I have never seen a Conte team where the ball boomerangs right back at you, I'd argue it's impossible to create that situation with Conte. Dyche is all about positioning yourself to win second balls, and to win free-kicks in important positions, we don't seem to do that. Simeone is about a very intense pressing block that suffocates opponents and then counter that with quick decisive bursts of play often involving carrying the ball out, not lumping it forward.

They do not create a system where we seem to just pile more and more pressure onto ourselves, hoping to and onto the feet of Kane or Son. This is the thing, my issue about the problem being tactics isn't about failure to fulfil tactical instructions, this might happen to a limited degree, under Poch I believe they fully tried to enact his tactical plan, it was just failing badly. I don't think they stopped working for Poch, I do believe some players probably campaigned to see him out. My problem with the tactics, is from an outside perspective they aren't working and they are a massive reason for our lack of chance creation and our late goals. We invite too much pressure onto ourselves, you don't need to be Barcelona to fix this problem.

Well I believe, and I might be wrong, the fear is in part coming from the management who creates a high-pressure situation, a lot of stress that leads to fear, and also he takes you out of the team if you make a mistake. This leads to risk-adverse mentality, better to kick it long than risk being caught out playing it short. Now this is a hypothesis and I might be wrong, but if it were true, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were, you actually create a paradoxical situation where what is best for your position in the team is the opposite of what is actually best for your team. You should be trying to play out more often, but to do so creates a bigger risk in your position in the team. This might be 'selfish' but it's literally linked their profession, they are paid, employees, not martyrs to fans whims. That a management problem, and if the management can't see that, (and I have been in companies where they don't where they expect you to put in work out of a sense that you should just want to work and that you are doing a 'good' thing), you get a lot of pissed of employees, high employee turnover and a worse product. These problems, just like in real life, are not actually hard to fix, just require a bit of listening.

And this goes onto broader points, you all want the same thing, but what if it's clear to you that what you are being asked to do directly contradicts with your desired outcome, it puts you in a very difficult situation, and absolutely you need to deal with that internally. If your supervisor is doing things that you perceive damaging you say that higher up the chain of command and try to come to a resolution. This is different than not putting the performance in, but yes you do make that known because sometimes changing manager is actually for the benefit of the club. On not putting in a performance, I think the players wanted to win this game, I don't think they threw the game, I believe they are low moral and don't believe in what they're doing, how does that not affect you? You can still do the hours, but it absolutely does have an effect, and anyone who says otherwise is either lying through their teeth, or is self-delusional quite frankly, maybe if you are doing data input it's not a problem, but if your work involves performance in any way it does have an effect.

And again, we then return to the the same question: why then did they do the same to Poch?

We can keep going round this idea, but as yet, no one who seems to want to lay the blame at Mourinho's door has been able to come up with an adequate answer as to why it's happened to two very different managers in the space of three years.

It doesn't seem to happen elsewhere.

Chelsea change managers all the time. How come their players still seem to put in a shift?

West Ham - they may have been shit under Moyes, then Pellegrini, then Moyes again (until recently), but they didn't piss about on the pitch looking like their mothers had just been shot. They put in a shift.

Southampton got tonked 9-0 last season. What did they do? They pulled their socks up and worked and strove and put in the effort and dragged themselves back to their feet. Having been again tonked 9-0, I would, given the choice between which I thought more likely, Spurs to show gumption and get themselves back on their feet or Southampton, still put every penny I had on Southampton.

My God, Newcastle! They're managed by a man that huge swathes of people deride (not saying it's fair, just that they do) - do you see them refusing to put a shift in?

The key difference? The teams above, at the very least, have balls. Our poor little fragile egos don't 'believe' in the project? My heart bleeds! I can give them tens of thousands of reasons, every week, why their excuses should fall on the deafest of ears.

They need to pull their own socks up, not expect Poch or Mourinho or the next poor bastard who takes this poison chalice of a job to wipe their arses for them. They each need to grow a pair.

 

[Johnspur]

I've honestly never seen us look so toothless and out of ideas when we have the ball. The defence seems to bare the brunt of everyones frustrations at the moment (Dier's complete brain fart doesn't help), though once again we have only conceded 1 goal and allowed only 2 shots on target.

It's our complete lack of threat that depresses me the most. This reminds me of late 90's Spurs when all we had was "Get the ball to Ginola" now it's "Get the ball to Kane and Son". Kane is injured and Son is out of form, it's desperate out there.

In 21 league games, we've scored 34 goals, 20 of them were scored in 5 games, leaving 14 goals in the other 16.

 

[poc]

Its not his philosophy. It’s that he’s simply not a good enough manager anymore

I think if you have strong committed players with a strong mindset it would still work. You just have to be careful and controlled for 90+ minutes and not make stupid mistakes. I also doubt very much he’s telling them to play like that and not do anything with the ball in possession.

 

[SpursSince1980]

Christ that’s fucking depressing to watch.

Sure is. And according to many, that’s all down to one man and his outdated footballing philosophy.

If Don Revie came back from the dead and applied his methods, I can guarantee u, no matter how old school he is, or out of touch with the modern game, he would apply his boot so far up the ass of those lazy shitheels that they’d have to start using their head to kick a ball.

No coach today, 20 years ago, or 60 years ago would purposely drill their players to flounce around like that.

Bring Rogers, or Klopp or Pep in tomorrow and you’d see the same shit from the same players... albeit after a three game new manager bounce.

But none of that matters now, as they’ve all given up. That much is clear. So, Jose will likely get sacked in the next two weeks.

Will some new manager or caretaker get us into the top 6 by end of season? Not. A. Chance.

 

[Montalbano]

Sure is. And according to many, that’s all down to one man and his outdated footballing philosophy.

If Don Revie came back from the dead and applied his methods, I can guarantee u, no matter how old school he is, or out of touch with the modern game, he would apply his boot so far up the ass of those lazy shitheels that they’d have to start using their head to kick a ball.

No coach today, 20 years ago, or 60 years ago would purposely drill their players to flounce around like that.

Bring Rogers, or Klopp or Pep in tomorrow and you’d see the same shit from the same players... albeit after a three game new manager bounce.

But none of that matters now, as they’ve all given up. That much is clear. So, Jose will likely get sacked in the next two weeks.

Will some new manager or caretaker get us into the top 6 by end of season? Not. A. Chance.

I’m an optimist by nature but I truly think once we get Kane and Reguilon back as well as one of either Dele (not his brother) or Lo Celso we’ll be back to winning form. It just depends on how far we manage to fall down the table in the meantime. So far we’re off to a flying 0-3 start.

Our lack of squad depth has fully been reemphasized through this period — there are too many players in this team that are just not good enough.

 

[U.S. Spurs Fan]

Here in the states, the match Sunday is due to start at 7 am. Since I started following Spurs about six years ago, I have faithfully gotten up for every single early morning game even though I am typically exhausted. This Sunday, I'm sleeping in. I just don't care anymore. That's what Jose has done to Spurs for me. The match today came on when I was at work and while I did put it on my phone, I barely watched and turned it off as soon as Dier did his thing because I knew the outcome at that point. I absolutely hate these games anymore because even if they do somehow get a result, it is simply painful to watch and doesn't make you feel anything except boredom or frustration.

You usually can't win in any sport if you play scared, and that is exactly what we do. I don't know how you can blame the players for playing scared. That is what they are instructed to do. The strategy of just sit back and defend, defend, defend makes it much harder to do said defending. Our team is under pressure the entire game even against teams like Brighton. Is this really the fault of the players?

I am amazed that some people still believe Jose can somehow turn this around. I don't know what else you have to see. If Jose really did "change his ways" during his sabbatical, we would have seen it by now. This is who he is. My only hope is that I don't have to see any of it soon because he won't be here anymore. I normally hate Valentine's Day but this year I am anxiously looking forward to it.

 

[shelfboy68]

Here in the states, the match Sunday is due to start at 7 am. Since I started following Spurs about six years ago, I have faithfully gotten up for every single early morning game even though I am typically exhausted. This Sunday, I'm sleeping in. I just don't care anymore. That's what Jose has done to Spurs for me. The match today came on when I was at work and while I did put it on my phone, I barely watched and turned it off as soon as Dier did his thing because I knew the outcome at that point. I absolutely hate these games anymore because even if they do somehow get a result, it is simply painful to watch and doesn't make you feel anything except boredom or frustration.

You usually can't win in any sport if you play scared, and that is exactly what we do. I don't know how you can blame the players for playing scared. That is what they are instructed to do. The strategy of just sit back and defend, defend, defend makes it much harder to do said defending. Our team is under pressure the entire game even against teams like Brighton. Is this really the fault of the players?

I am amazed that some people still believe Jose can somehow turn this around. I don't know what else you have to see. If Jose really did "change his ways" during his sabbatical, we would have seen it by now. This is who he is. My only hope is that I don't have to see any of it soon because he won't be here anymore. I normally hate Valentine's Day but this year I am anxiously looking forward to it.

Totally relate to this as I have got up this morning to see the result, I didn't bother watching the game as the result was obvious only the scoreline surprised me.
Unfortunately we are in a downward spiral of negativity and lack of confidence, there is only one way this is playing out.

 

[glacierSpurs]

Totally relate to this as I have got up this morning to see the result, I didn't bother watching the game as the result was obvious only the scoreline surprised me.
Unfortunately we are in a downward spiral of negativity and lack of confidence, there is only one way this is playing out.

And I hate that now the PL games are scheduled so often at 3-4am in my time zone. Those timings used to be good memories of CL weeknights but this season it has been a nightmare, giving me fatigue for the rest of the day and so unmotivated.

 

[glacierSpurs]

The players somehow looked resign to writing off the league already. They are just putting all the eggs in the tournament baskets as they probably have more faith, if there is any left, in Mourinho to deliver in the cup games.

Perhaps this should be what we should be all along this season. The initial results of thrashing manure, victories over Citeh and scums are just anomalies that got everyone's hopes high.

I think I am giving up on top 6 now. Probably 9th will be our final standing end of season. Fuck that, even chelsea and the scums used to be there in some of the blip season.

Having said that, EL has to be the one we go all out for now. Die die have to win...

 

[nedley]

The fact we are playing this horrific football with no fans in the ground is a damning indictment.

If there were fans this lot would have been booed off at half time weeks ago.

Mourinho has the comfort of not having to have his tactics and mentality challenged. This isn't a case of an off-day when it has been happening for a long time now. This is the football he has set up by design.

No longer the Special One.

He's now the Lucky One.

 

[glacierSpurs]

That being said, I'm not happy with how reliant we are on Kane and Son to create chances. I'm not happy that some players receive the ball in the middle of the park, look around for 5 seconds then pass it back to Toby or Dier then rinse and repeat. I'd like to see more attacking drive from our fullbacks and midfielders. Lamela coming on didn't change the result but he was hungry for it and it showed. It didn't lead to anything ultimately, but if the players all had that hunger from the start, the game could have panned out differently.

I absolutely hate seeing that and I'm fucking livid with that kind of possession play. Sissoko is the main culprit and that is why I have always been calling to cull him out of the match day squad.

Presumably he really does has a significant influence on the team that the rest are just following and doing what he's doing. And that needs to stop.

It doesn't matter he puts his bodies on the defence line, tracking back or whatever. The passes he made are just too safe and almost selfish to say that as long as he made a successful pass, mostly sideways and back, he will be contended. He doesn't move further up to compress the space to prevent opposition to advance, thinking he's a great defensive midfielder protecting the defence, but indirectly causing us to never have any possession in the midfield always, resulting in increasing pressure as the game goes.

Hojberg didn't wanna do that, but the above as a result of Sissoko has often caused him the need in retreating alongside Sissoko because the opposition are just overwhelming our midfield knowing only Ndombele is closing them - 1 vs 3 most of the time. Our midfield trio are effectively disjointed as a result of Sissoko. One can see Hojbjerg marshalling the line to move forward times and again, but Sissoko will always seem like a cult hero almost playing like a 3rd CB or 2nd RB acting unnecessarily busy and so proud of his defensive duties you wouldn't see him making himself available as outlets for Hojbjerg or Ndombele to pass to. Hojbjerg just couldn't do it alone.

Sissoko plays best as a RW, or just entrust the RB/RWB totally to him. Only such dedicated role could allow him the space he needs without conflicting the central midfield space affecting our transition play. But again, despite his physique, he's so scared shit of advancing his play and by choosing to the safer option literally every time, we are no different with playing an academy player in his position. TBH, there is really nothing he could bring to the table anymore if he is just adding body to the field, because even his single most basic trait of direct running which can help to carve some space for our attackers has not been seen anymore.

So many of us keep saying our midfield died with the departure of Dembele. Actually, it's more like our current midfield is in this state because of the way Sissoko is.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

And again, we then return to the the same question: why then did they do the same to Poch?

We can keep going round this idea, but as yet, no one who seems to want to lay the blame at Mourinho's door has been able to come up with an adequate answer as to why it's happened to two very different managers in the space of three years.

It doesn't seem to happen elsewhere.

Chelsea change managers all the time. How come their players still seem to put in a shift?

West Ham - they may have been shit under Moyes, then Pellegrini, then Moyes again (until recently), but they didn't piss about on the pitch looking like their mothers had just been shot. They put in a shift.

Southampton got tonked 9-0 last season. What did they do? They pulled their socks up and worked and strove and put in the effort and dragged themselves back to their feet. Having been again tonked 9-0, I would, given the choice between which I thought more likely, Spurs to show gumption and get themselves back on their feet or Southampton, still put every penny I had on Southampton.

My God, Newcastle! They're managed by a man that huge swathes of people deride (not saying it's fair, just that they do) - do you see them refusing to put a shift in?

The key difference? The teams above, at the very least, have balls. Our poor little fragile egos don't 'believe' in the project? My heart bleeds! I can give them tens of thousands of reasons, every week, why their excuses should fall on the deafest of ears.

They need to pull their own socks up, not expect Poch or Mourinho or the next poor bastard who takes this poison chalice of a job to wipe their arses for them. They each need to grow a pair.

Fucking love you @rez9000 this is spot on. Bunch of losers in our team.

 

[LeParisien]

What is leadership? Coalescing a group of people around a shared goal by motivating and equipping them to perform at a higher level.

Mourinho has failed as a leader.

 

[LeParisien]

OK. In that case, explain to me why they're playing in pretty much the same manner as Poch's last twelve months or so. The idea doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

There shouldn't be a need to keep repeating it, but the common denominator in the current state of play is the players. The manager's different, the coaching staff is different, the bloody training ground and stadium are different. Seriously, what else needs to change before we finally understand where the problem lies? What do we do, change the colour of the plates in the canteen, or the flavour of orange drink they serve, pay the players in Indonesian rupiahs, alter the gravitational constant of the universe? What?

Except many players have changed. The squad is not the same as the one he inherited.

What is not working is the leader is not able to motivate these players to perform at the level they’re capable of as a team. There is more human potential in this side than it is exhibiting. That was also true during Poch’s last season, even if we went on a wonderful CL run.

But this is not about individuals per se. It’s about relationships and capacities. Leaders unlock potential. Leaders get high off trying to improve their staff. Poch managed that for most of his reign. Mou hasn’t.

This doesn’t make Mou a worse coach than Poch. It means that Mou is not the right person in the right place at the right time. We need to find that person to lead our team. The person who can unlock the potential in this team.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Except many players have changed. The squad is not the same as the one he inherited.

What is not working is the leader is not able to motivate these players to perform at the level they’re capable of as a team. There is more human potential in this side than it is exhibiting. That was also true during Poch’s last season, even if we went on a wonderful CL run.

But this is not about individuals per se. It’s about relationships and capacities. Leaders unlock potential. Leaders get high off trying to improve their staff. Poch managed that for most of his reign. Mou hasn’t.

This doesn’t make Mou a worse coach than Poch. It means that Mou is not the right person in the right place at the right time. We need to find that person to lead our team. The person who can unlock the potential in this team.

You cannot say that Mourinho has failed as a leader whilst still giving Poch credit for being better at it when the exact same players gave up and got Poch sacked. Where were his leadership qualities then? Or how did they benefit us?

It's contradictory and just goes to show you simply cannot keep making excuses for these players anymore.

We have 6-7 players excluding youth who deserve their spot and give their all in this team but we have 15 or upwards that simply aren't good enough and those of you that think this will change with a 3rd manager will be in for a rude awakening. You cannot start games with 11 players but only 2-3 show up to play.

I am not saying they have been playing to the best of their ability and just can't cut it, they really seem to not give a shit anymore and haven't for a good 3 years now.

When are we going to stop making excuses for the players?

 

[LeParisien]

That's funny. Cos I feel the entire mentality of just about every player we have is wrong for the club too.

No idea how is coaching is responsible for the umpteen mental mistakes we see defensively. Today was Dier's turn (again) to do something catastrophically dumb.

Oh, and I think I lost count after the 30th min of how many simple misplaced passes there were.

Let's also not forget all the players just standing around like statues. Refusing to budge. Move. Or try.

But if it makes everyone feel better to say it is all down to one person. Fine. You're right. The players have stopped making even the smallest effort.

Bring in the most attack minded genius in the land and let's see if they can turn these pathetic babies into men. 'Cos one thing I can also guarantee you is this... whoever your dream manager is will NOT be backed. They will have to deal with the exact same set of weak minded losers.

We're in deep, deep shit. And sacking Jose will not be a magical solution some seem to think it'll be. That's not to say he won't be going. 'Cos I can't see how he stays at this point, as the players have completely given up.

But by all means... let's give them a pass. It's all the manager's fault that they can't focus or put in any effort or pretend to give a shit. All because of Jose's philosophy, they can no longer make a 2 yard pass. Or mark someone. Or run into open space. Or do even the simplest of things, like not kick a fucking player in the leg while sitting on your arse in the penalty area. I'm sure that had everything to do with the Jose philosophy of playing.

Give me a break.

You'll get your wish. I don't doubt that. But what you won't get is someone who will turn us into anything resembling what we were 4 years ago. Not with these players. Not with this chairman. And not in this financial climate that will cripple us for the next three or four years.

I’ve held leadership positions at two organisations.

The first organisation was on the brink when I joined and the top dog was leading a turnaround successfully. The culture at the start and the end were completely different. Many of the elements were the same. There was a gradual improvement in the quality of personnel but the big changes happened through leadership strategies and processes. And in the quality of relationships and morale.

In the second organisation (where I am now) the quality of personnel has stayed constant. The quality of leadership has had a deleterious effect over time. The loss of one key senior leader last summer (during a period where we are contending with Covid and Brexit) has had a huge impact in the quality of relationships and motivation.

The fact is that the staff can be made to shine by good leadership. This idea of some fixed mindset in an organisation is a myth. Football fans love myths but an elite organisation needs to rise above that (indeed it is on the leader to create that distance between internal processes which people can control and external noise. Equally a culture can degrade very quickly given poor results and a lack of direction.

These are just facts of organisations. The poor morale and performance at THFC are also facts but it can be fixed with better leadership.

 

[LeParisien]

You cannot say that Mourinho has failed as a leader whilst still giving Poch credit for being better at it when the exact same players gave up and got Poch sacked. Where were his leadership qualities then? Or how did they benefit us?

It's contradictory and just goes to show you simply cannot keep making excuses for these players anymore.

We have 6-7 players excluding youth who deserve their spot and give their all in this team but we have 15 or upwards that simply aren't good enough and those of you that think this will change with a 3rd manager will be in for a rude awakening. You cannot start games with 11 players but only 2-3 show up to play.

I am not saying they have been playing to the best of their ability and just can't cut it, they really seem to not give a shit anymore and haven't for a good 3 years now.

When are we going to stop making excuses for the players?

I don’t think you really read the post you quoted.

As I said in the post you quoted, it is not the exact same set of players.

As I said in the post you quoted, this is about relationships. The relationship between Poch and his squad degraded and was bad by the end and he had to go. As Poch would admit. However for many years that relationship was excellent. Squad potential was being maximised. At that point it was legitimate to ask whether we might be able to do better if more resources were given by Levy to the playing squad.

As I said in the post you quoted, this team is not playing to its full potential and needs a leader who can unlock its potential. This is not a group of players who are performing at their best and simply aren’t good enough to meet the fans’ expectations.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

So it's the morning after the night before, and reflecting back on the last couple of months after what was, yet another defeat, I'm one foot solidly planted in the 'out' camo. It wasn't the defeat itself, it was the manner in which the players performed that hurts the most.

Is it Jose 'fault?' Is it the players, or, is it just a combination of the both. Personally, I think the problems really kicked in after the West Ham 3-3 debacle. That's when he knew we had a team of weak, feeble minded players. For the most part.

Now I would love to know what was said, or what he did as it's been a black-run ski slope downhill in terms of football quality and mentality ever since. Whatever he said, seemed to resonate so loudly with said players that they have all simultaneously given up..... a managerial masterclass in bad delivery, perhaps? Misjudging the team etc. As the main man, he is the one that is ultimately responsible. His pedigree doesn't matter if he cannot get the players to buy into his methodology. That sits squarely on his shoulders.

However, I am also disgusted at our football players. Their attitude, heads down drop in form and actions as a collective. They shoulder a lot of this mess. (A few of them aside). I'd also drag Levy into it, for generally dreadful bargain basement player hunting. One or 2 decent signings have come good, but the likes of cheap skate loans on Gedson, Vinicius (not looking good to me) and PSG cast offs has left the squad mid table quality.

Whilst I am now one foot in the Jose out camp, I am also wondering what if or what's the point?

The club is, in my view, in need of an overhaul that starts with offloading senior players with miserable attitudes, a total rethink on player recruitment, and we need to sit back, buckle up for a long long road back to recovery.

The 'almost' nature, the always the bridesmaid and never the bride, nearly there epic nature of this club hurts more than anything. If, if if...... the clubs top bods had seized the opportunities presented 2 3rds into pochs reign, we might actually have kicked on.

Anyway, back to Jose. What manager out there could get this sorry mob doing anything of note? Then again, can it continue as it is? I genuinely don't want to watch the games they are that awful. I watched the west ham vs villa game and felt dirty enjoying the football.

Anyway, this isn't going to change quickly. Sad times as a spurs fan. Someone convince me all will be well.....

 

[Gingernut]

Except many players have changed. The squad is not the same as the one he inherited.

What is not working is the leader is not able to motivate these players to perform at the level they’re capable of as a team. There is more human potential in this side than it is exhibiting. That was also true during Poch’s last season, even if we went on a wonderful CL run.

But this is not about individuals per se. It’s about relationships and capacities. Leaders unlock potential. Leaders get high off trying to improve their staff. Poch managed that for most of his reign. Mou hasn’t.

This doesn’t make Mou a worse coach than Poch. It means that Mou is not the right person in the right place at the right time. We need to find that person to lead our team. The person who can unlock the potential in this team.

8 of the starting line up were at spurs before Jose.

And the two subs used too