Jose Mourinho

[Roberts84]

We scored in all of those games and conceded from individual errors. Hard to throw all of the blame for that on the manager.

you're right you can't blame Jose for the individual errors, but you can blame him for his negative tactics and dull football.

 

[wadewill]

We could end up 10th by the end of this round of fixtures

 

[rez9000]

Many of these players ran through brick walls for Poch for the majority of this time here and the one thing you could hardly ever level at them was a lack of commitment or desire. Mental strength in the big moments? Yes that was sometimes lacking. Tactically naive in some big games? Again, yes. But hardly ever did I watch us under Poch and think they weren't putting in effort or playing for the manager.

Of course it all went south in the end under Poch but was that the players giving up on him or Poch giving up on them? The manager got a lot of shit for his comments about leaving after the champions league final and there were many reports about his mood and behavior around the place in the aftermath.

Poch played his part in losing the dressing room IMO and as you say Jose has form for this. Is that enough evidence to categorically state with such conviction that the players must be the problem and and that no other manager could possibly get a tune out of them? I get the logic but I'm not so sure.

Essentially what you've said is that the players were to blame for what happened to Poch but not for what's happening to Mourinho.

Empricism is taking a real beating on SC today!

 

[Monkey boy]

We could end up 10th by the end of this round of fixtures

I just find it ironic that at the start of November everyone was stating how after the run of fixtures up to Liverpool we will know where we are in relation to the title as we play Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. If you had offered anyone on here 7 points from those 4 games and ended the run 3 points off the top of the league most would have taken them. Unfortunately nobody saw what was coming after it whereby like you said we somehow a month later end up in 10th place.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Yeah, but you talk as if there's a switch marked 'Winning Mentality' on Jose's desk that he should be flipping but is choosing to ignore.

This really minces my bananas - people speaking as if running a football club is the same as it is on Football Manager.

The majority of people on this board will have jobs (or will have had jobs in the past), so here's a question: does any of the frankly naive stuff like 'putting into place systems' - and all the other things that Mourinho is supposed to have done that some assume he hasn't or isn't with literally zero evidence - actually happen overnight?

I'm not sure I said switch on a winning mentality and I'm far too old for FM
He's had 15 months and 2 transfer windows. There are a few flaky players in our squad but doesn't every team. He has a core of winners in Kane, Son, Hojbjerg, Lloris, some good quality in Bergwijn, NDombele, Reguilon, LoCelso and some tough nuts in Dier and Alderwiereld. That's plenty to be going on with. I'm not a fan of Rodgers and don't want him in but when you look at what he's getting out of Albrighton, Evans, Fofana, Barnes & Schmeichel I don't think it's unreasonable to be asking this team to be showing a lot more than they are.

 

[skiba]

Essentially what you've said is that the players were to blame for what happened to Poch but not for what's happening to Mourinho.

Empricism is taking a real beating on SC today!

I feel Poch very much played his part and I even said so.

Poch played his part in losing the dressing room IMO

 

[Betha]

It's the same noises though - no need to excuse them.

Why is it people want to go to bat for this squad of players who have already done for one manager?

I have been trying to find how much distance the team covered (and sprints) against Brighton, as that is perhaps the stat that might best stat to say anything about whether they have quit playing for Mourinho or not. But I have not been nable to find it (it might be behind paywall). Not necessarily directed at you (but you are quite vocal about this) this, but do you, or anyone else, know these stats?

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I have been trying to find how much distance the team covered (and sprints) against Brighton, as that is perhaps the stat that might best stat to say anything about whether they have quit playing for Mourinho or not. But I have not been nable to find it (it might be behind paywall). Not necessarily directed at you (but you are quite vocal about this) this, but do you, or anyone else, know these stats?

There are probably one or two on here with the ability and access to those stats, but not me, and happy to view them if people have access to them.

I just follow the general flow of things, depending on which angle folk are taking to extrapolate what the latest thing is that's (in the main) Mourinho's fault.

 

[King of Otters]

The majority of them (emphasis on the use of the word majority as opposed to totality, for the benefit of the pedants) stopped playing for Pochettino, too.

So the two questions in my mind are:

- If not Poch, and not Jose, who will these fuckers do their jobs for?
- If both Poch and Jose fail to get them playing, perhaps it’s time to consider that (many of) the players are the problem?

Option two is really no option at all. Mourinho was brought in to bring the best out of this group of players. He was supposed to be the guy that would improve on Poch's work, to push us to pick up silverware, as well matching Poch's record of consistently finishing in the top 4.

It's simply not reasonable to suggest the players rather than the manager are the problem at this stage. Whether it's true or not is beside the point, because no chairman is going to completely overhaul the squad for any manager, particularly not in the midst of an unprecedented economic downturn in top level football.

The deal for Mourinho is the same for any top level manager. He has to get the best out of the squad at his disposal, with 3-4 additions every summer, or face the consequences.

Finally, to repeat what i've said elsewhere, I simply don't buy the 'if not Mourinho then who?' argument. Hiring managers is not a zero sum game. Yes, he's one of the most successful managers of all time, but sometimes it just doesn't work out, for any number of reasons. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that a different, less decorated manager, might come in and actually do a better job.

 

[E17yid]

Option two is really no option at all. Mourinho was brought in to bring the best out of this group of players. He was supposed to be the guy that would improve on Poch's work, to push us to pick up silverware, as well matching Poch's record of consistently finishing in the top 4.

It's simply not reasonable to suggest the players rather than the manager are the problem at this stage. Whether it's true or not is beside the point, because no chairman is going to completely overhaul the squad for any manager, particularly not in the midst of an unprecedented economic downturn in top level football.

The deal for Mourinho is the same for any top level manager. He has to get the best out of the squad at his disposal, with 3-4 additions every summer, or face the consequences.

Finally, to repeat what i've said elsewhere, I simply don't buy the 'if not Mourinho then who?' argument. Hiring managers is not a zero sum game. Yes, he's one of the most successful managers of all time, but sometimes it just doesn't work out, for any number of reasons. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that a different, less decorated manager, might come in and actually do a better job.

This is how I’m feeling about it. Even if for arguments sake we all agreed that the players are being twats and Mourinho has done nothing wrong it still doesn’t change the fact that, especially for a club like us, we’re not going to sell the majority of the squad and replace them. Even if Levy was on board with that it would take fucking years but no chairman is ever going to be on board with that which is why players hold the power.

 

[wrd]

Option two is really no option at all. Mourinho was brought in to bring the best out of this group of players. He was supposed to be the guy that would improve on Poch's work, to push us to pick up silverware, as well matching Poch's record of consistently finishing in the top 4.

It's simply not reasonable to suggest the players rather than the manager are the problem at this stage. Whether it's true or not is beside the point, because no chairman is going to completely overhaul the squad for any manager, particularly not in the midst of an unprecedented economic downturn in top level football.

The deal for Mourinho is the same for any top level manager. He has to get the best out of the squad at his disposal, with 3-4 additions every summer, or face the consequences.

Finally, to repeat what i've said elsewhere, I simply don't buy the 'if not Mourinho then who?' argument. Hiring managers is not a zero sum game. Yes, he's one of the most successful managers of all time, but sometimes it just doesn't work out, for any number of reasons. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that a different, less decorated manager, might come in and actually do a better job.

A lot of us were routinely mocked for making the "excuse" it was the players last time round. Whoever is in charge is going to have to work with this group of players because it's going to be even harder to overhaul them with the pandemic, the amount of new recruits and the new contracts offered to those who were questioned previously.

 

[freeeki]

He finished second place the year after he won Europa.

One of my biggest issues with the appointment was he spent so much money at ManU to achieve those things that will never happen here at Spurs. He spent over 150 mil every Summer until Woodward was fed up with him. You have to be able to get more out of what you have at a place like Spurs. Jose has never had to do that. Every where he’s been he can basically ask for any player in the world and they get him.

Inter? Porto?

Also wasn’t he crying out for defenders at United and told to work with what he had, while the chairman spunked money up the wall on players he personally wanted?

 

[cliff jones]

Well I for one wasn’t getting carried away before Anfield. I did tick 5/6 place though back at the start of the season, which looks a tad optimistic judging by the deteriorating mood on this board.

Jose evidently has two attacking strategies- fck knows what they show the subs before they come on!

Teams have learnt to foul Kane- and to share the burden in doing so. Reggie and Aurier out means no overloads or service from wide.

What were we trying to do after Kane and Aurier went off v Liverpool, or during the entire game v Brighton?

Does Jose know? If the players do they didn’t show it. In fact as some are saying they look confused and devoid of passion.

There was a lot of hiding going on at Brighton, no one tried anything on the ball, or tried running in behind off the ball.

Chelsea might not be the worst opponent to face in this predicament with no fans in the stadium. But if we do fall behind and have to come out it might not be pretty.

This will be the first Prem game I’m not setting the alarm for in 15 years in tricky time zones, but the style of play and injuries has done for me, for the time being...

Audere eat Facere

 

[rez9000]

I feel Poch very much played his part and I even said so.

Sorry, chap but quoting out of context won't work.

The full thing you said is:

Poch played his part in losing the dressing room IMO and as you say Jose has form for this

That reads like Poch's involvement was incidental or 'lesser' while Mourinho is full on responsible.

 

[E17yid]

Inter? Porto?

Also wasn’t he crying out for defenders at United and told to work with what he had, while the chairman spunked money up the wall on players he personally wanted?

Wasn’t he crying out for Tobi and Dier?

 

[Tucker]

We could end up 10th by the end of this round of fixtures

That’s the spirit.

 

[freeeki]

Wasn’t he crying out for Tobi and Dier?

He was crying out for investment in centre backs, whether that was Toby and Dier or not I have no idea and nor do you.

Before you present the dismally predictable “well now he’s got them so why aren’t we champions!!!” comeback - most managers would also have loved Toby and Dier three seasons ago. Time has done what time tends to do, and moved on.

 

[E17yid]

That’s the spirit.

Looking at your avatar, and mine, has made me realise there is a striking resemblance between Arry and Olivia.

 

[E17yid]

He was crying out for investment in centre backs, whether that was Toby and Dier or not I have no idea and nor do you.

Before you present the dismally predictable “well now he’s got them so why aren’t we champions!!!” comeback - most managers would also have loved Toby and Dier three seasons ago. Time has done what time tends to do, and moved on.

Yeah that’s fair although I don’t think Mourinho can moan to much about lack of backing/investment during his time at UTD. He spent a fair bit (a lot more than he’ll ever get here) but I take your point that we don’t know and we also don’t know which signings he signed off on and which ones he didn’t.

 

[USAYID]

Gutted that it seems to be coming to this, and pretty quickly too as we seemed to be doing well a couple of months ago (if that).

Just can't see who we'd bring in at this stage of the season. Maybe Sacramento as caretaker? I wonder how loyal he'd be to Jose?

I have not been impressed with Sacramento at all. He was supposed to be this attack-minded genius, however we certainly can't play through the midfield, and nothing but Route 1 succeded (not any more though). He is definitely not the answer, even as a caretaker. I'd rather have Redknapp back until the summer, but quite honestly unless we lose the next 4 games, which is a possibility, I wouldn't make a change right now.