Jose Mourinho

[rossdapep]

I don't think the opposition will be going in to games fearing us at the moment. They know we will have limited opportunities and that allows them to impose themselves on us more.

In an ideal world Jose turns this around and gets the players to attack a bit more as we look totally devoid of ideas and goals have really dried up now. He had to show us something in the first half yesterday, the players should have been out of the traps.

If we get a similar performance vs WBA, then I don't see how he can turn it around?? So there'd be no point keeping him.

We're almost certainly going to have more of the ball vs WBA, but there's now the risk of us getting sucker punched as the team lacks belief.

Not only do we have to beat WBA, but we need to see a real attacking strategy. We scrape a 1-0 win isn't going to build confidence that we are turning it around and need to be heading into that City game with the belief we can score. At the moment we don't look like we have the confidence to hurt teams and the longer that goes on, you have to ask 'what's the point?'

 

[sausage]

You've got to give it to the guy, he certainly doesn't lack self belief haha! Would be nice if a few of our players had it too.

But still, nice words aren't going to save him now, we need action and we need it now.

Is that title "most unwatchable team of 2021". We have to get the caveats out the way.

I like Jose and I really wanted this to work, but the last few games have slowly become indefensible. It's like AVB football if you took away the possession. The solid defence and counter attack has dissipated

 

[VegasII]

Mourinho currently has the worst league record for a manager at Spurs since Juande Ramos. He currently has the exact same number of league losses and draws as AVB (he'd have to win his next 7 games in a row to match AVB's league record at the club)

Oof, shit stats. Pressure’s on.

 

[mrlilywhite]

also, as I mentioned earlier, this kind of thing will begin to leak out/get made up etc

And yet here I was thinking that pro-Mourinho posters here on SC were actually saying that it's the players who have decided to play this way and the style was down to their mentality & our current form was a culmination of everything that preceded it from Poch's last days. Seriously though, yes the players seem to be folding on Mourinho and that shouldn't happen, but let's be honest, they're not the first to do so, and won't be the last of any club to do it either. Mourinho has been at the centre of a revolt or two at former clubs, so it comes as no surprise at all.

What does come as a surprise is that on our day, we have a bloody good team and can punish anyone. Mourinho could have been the catalyst of something quite brilliant if only he'd adapted his philosophy to actually utilise the strengths of his players, instead of shoehorning them into a system that is archaic as the philosophy itself.

 

[Spunkmonkey]

Just step back for a moment and ask yourself if any manager would ever say something like that. Why do you expect him to be different?

When Brighton beat Liverpool at Anfield the other day, did Klopp come out and, while irradiating the journalist with his teeth, say, 'Yep, this was all on me. I got it wrong. I don't know what I'm doing.'

Please. It's such a meaningless thing to level at someone.

Klopp did say something similar after defeat to Burnley though. He said it was his tactics, his responsibility. He got it wrong.

 

[McFlash]

10 of the squad weren’t. Play your signings.

But that point is not a necessary part of the broader argument.

I get your point and I really don't have the energy to wade into this whole debate but it does appear that with the core or our team, if some are left out, the others sulk.
If we play the signings, the remainder of the squad seem to have a collective hissy fit.

New manager or not, I honestly think we need to get shot of a lot of our squad. Not just because some of them just aren't good enough, but because they're too much of a clique.

We saw it with Poch and now we're seeing it with Jose. If their mates are left out, too many of them decide that they can't be arsed anymore, whereas they should be geeing their 'mates' up to improve for the benefit of the team.

 

[nailsy]

I’m going to try and answer the Poch question, and then also answer why I think they’ve downed tools for Mourinho too.

It’s worth noting that Poch got a lot out of these guys for a long time, so clearly they liked him and wanted to work hard for him, and something changed in those final months. Pochettino demanded loyalty and commitment to the team and to your teammates, but in the last 12 months of his tenure, whether it was strained relations with the board or something else, he stopped shooting down rumours about him leaving, and this culminated in his comments before the Champions League final about leaving if we won because it would be impossible to do any better. In my view, this tells the players 2 things:
1) The manager doesn’t have the same loyalty to the cause that he demands from his players - damaging the relationship.
2) I don’t think the players I have are good enough to be where we are - damaging confidence.

Almost no surprise then when we start the new season terribly and the sacking became inevitable.

Under Mourinho, I think it’s a combination of things.
1) Mistreatment of popular players, especially Alli - regardless of how out of form he has been. If someone treats one of your best mates badly in your eyes, you lose respect for them and you probably don’t listen to them or trust them as much. That’s pretty human behaviour, and these guys are still human after all, albeit very well paid ones that as fans, we would like them to to not be susceptible to such human behaviours, but that’s just our love for the club driving what are ultimately unrealistic expectations. They are still human beings regardless of the size of their salary.

2) Again related somewhat to Dele Alli, against Stoke, he tried a clever flick, and it resulted in a counter attack. Mourinho went ballistic, and even gave him a bollocking in the press after the game for giving the ball away. He’s practically not been seen since. The message I think this sends is “don’t give the ball away if you want to play in this team” which naturally will result in my view, in players being more conservative, because no one wants a public dressing down or to be dropped.
There is a massive difference between the Pep and Poch attitude of “if you give the ball away, win it back quickly” approach, and the “do not give the ball away” approach, and I think we play with the latter, which is ironic given how often we go long and bypass midfield.
Unfortunately, a touch line bollocking followed by a dressing down in the media will live longer in the memory than any message on the training ground or half time team talk, you can’t un-hear those things. Subsequently, I think that’s why we play backwards, sideways, horrendous football.

Finally, it’s worth noting that I don’t lay all the blame at the door of Mourinho for our current situation, a number of players haven’t reached the standard of play that they should have, but football management is multi-faceted and complicated job, and like all management roles in any industry, it is primarily a people management job, and I think on that front, he is largely failing, and if irreparable damage is done to his relationships with players, it is time to go.

Nice post . It's an absolute mess at the moment and it's not a case of just blaming the manager or the players. They're all responsible for the way we play. We've got players who for whatever reason can't follow the managers instructions. What does he do about that? Does he keep playing them and hope that it clicks, or does he drop them and potentially have more disgruntled players on his hands? And we're awful to watch at the moment so can he change the formation so that we're playing to our strengths rather than playing to protect our weaknesses, or does this style get the most out of our two best players when it clicks? Son and Kane were both on fire earlier in the season, but it's a lot of responsibility falling on their shoulders.

 

[VancouverSpur]

Oof, shit stats. Pressure’s on.

Yep not great and reminds me of the quote “If you think that statistics
has nothing to say about
what you do
or how you could do it better,
then you are either wrong
or in need of a more interesting job.”

 

[dtxspurs]

Not sure if anyone posted this...

 

[Spurzinho]

Not sure if anyone posted this...


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Its important to point out that "the board" in this context is Daniel Levy. As far as I'm aware Levy is in complete control of footballing matters at the club. He consults Donna Cullen and Matt Collecott but Levy calls the shots. To say the board are putting pressure in Mourinho is to say that Daniel Levy is putting pressure on Mourinho. What form that takes is very hard to say because he's not a outwardly confrontational personality.

 

[sausage]

And yet here I was thinking that pro-Mourinho posters here on SC were actually saying that it's the players who have decided to play this way and the style was down to their mentality & our current form was a culmination of everything that preceded it from Poch's last days

It could well be. There's no guarantee the style is intentional, but it is still a condemnation of his role either way.

 

[Japhet]

Part 2 coming soon. Probably

That just looks like a picture of Sam Allardyce when somebody told him who they've got next.

 

[Alex4487]

Not sure if anyone posted this...


View attachment 82159

good to know any beatdowns next week and he will go hopefully

 

[wrd]

Is that title "most unwatchable team of 2021". We have to get the caveats out the way.

I like Jose and I really wanted this to work, but the last few games have slowly become indefensible. It's like AVB football if you took away the possession. The solid defence and counter attack has dissipated

It's pretty incredible how quickly things have turned around from that initial period up to the Arsenal game. I knew we had frailties but even the things we were doing well have just disappeared over the course of the last 8 weeks.

 

[Aphex]

Yup. Imagine if the crowds had been there. Seriously, it would be a chorus of boos - full out mutiny

I can't remember a time where the difference in quality of squad, was so unbelievably removed from the quality we're seeing on the pitch

Sorry, but the bucks stops with the manager

Like others have said...I am just so, so bored with Tottenham at the moment.

There is no joy. Watching us play is torture, win, draw or lose.

I have really started to stop caring about Spurs. That's how bad it is. I want this to end. Get this over. Please let's get to the next chapter. Let's get some joy and swagger back into the club

This x 1000. When die hard fans start turning away from the game because it's so terrible, Levy should be extremely concerned. Football clubs are nothing without the entertainment factor. I can barely watch it on TV. There is no way I'd travel four hours round trip in the cold wind and rain to watch this in the stadium and nor would 60,000 others.

We are all different of course but I have a threshold where, when I get to the point where I lose interest in the games and basically stop getting nervous / excited, then that's basically the point of no return. Normally a home defeat to Chelsea I'd have been distraught / apoleptic rage, but I was totally indifferent, just sad basically, because I expected it, and that for me is the worst feeling you can get as a fan.

I don't expect Jose to turn this around, I've never seen a manager turn around a team from the point we are at now. If we beat WBA on Sunday it'll be a scrappy 1 nil win but to be honest, a hard working Allardyce side is probably a nightmare right now, can easily see us getting beat.

A win however it comes will just delay the inevitable. The poor performances have been happening for a year really, 3 months ago Southampton first half we were beyond awful, to be honest Jose has never really got us going at all, it's just been bits, fits and starts. It feels like our wins come from moments from our best players rather than any grand plan. Why would we suddently start playing well now? No, not happening.

 

[walworthyid]

This x 1000. When die hard fans start turning away from the game because it's so terrible, Levy should be extremely concerned. Football clubs are nothing without the entertainment factor. I can barely watch it on TV. There is no way I'd travel four hours round trip in the cold wind and rain to watch this in the stadium and nor would 60,000 others.

We are all different of course but I have a threshold where, when I get to the point where I lose interest in the games and basically stop getting nervous / excited, then that's basically the point of no return. Normally a home defeat to Chelsea I'd have been distraught / apoleptic rage, but I was totally indifferent, just sad basically, because I expected it, and that for me is the worst feeling you can get as a fan.

I don't expect Jose to turn this around, I've never seen a manager turn around a team from the point we are at now. If we beat WBA on Sunday it'll be a scrappy 1 nil win but to be honest, a hard working Allardyce side is probably a nightmare right now, can easily see us getting beat.

A win however it comes will just delay the inevitable. The poor performances have been happening for a year really, 3 months ago Southampton first half we were beyond awful, to be honest Jose has never really got us going at all, it's just been bits, fits and starts. It feels like our wins come from moments from our best players rather than any grand plan. Why would we suddently start playing well now? No, not happening.

This in a nutshell.

The trophy brigade can jog on if this is the price we have to pay!

 

[handsomecake]

Our fanbase has been hoodwinked by Kane and Sons goals into thinking that we are as good or have the potential to be as good a the halcyon days of Poch.

The problem is that Dembele and Wanyama are now Sissoko and Winks .

Ideally it would be Ndombele ( AWOL for a year) and GLC (for me jury is still out) but for the most part it has been Sissoko and Winks or at least one of them.

Kane and son have masked the fact that we have a completely dysfunctional engine room.

Barcelona dominated Europe with average defenders because they didn't give the ball back to you , Man City have been getting away with it too for the most part.

We however can't keep possession AND have crap defenders. So the other team has loads of the ball and our defenders are called into action and caught with pants down more often than not.

Mourinho is not covering himself in glory at all, but whoever comes in still needs the spine of a team. A CB you can hang your hat on and one or two competent midfielders who can take the ball on the half turn and put a bit of shape on a pass and score a few goals. Honestly id take Charlie Adam of a few years ago over Sissoko and Winks.

 

[tooey]

Mourinho currently has the worst league record for a manager at Spurs since Juande Ramos. He currently has the exact same number of league losses and draws as AVB (he'd have to win his next 7 games in a row to match AVB's league record at the club)

Jesus, that's a bit of a reality check.

 

[sausage]

It's pretty incredible how quickly things have turned around from that initial period up to the Arsenal game. I knew we had frailties but even the things we were doing well have just disappeared over the course of the last 8 weeks.

yeah it's gone from "possession stats are meaningless" to "we LITERALLY give them the ball straight back" in 5 games

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

Merson having a pop now saying we’re the worst in the league to watch, he ain’t wrong...