- Jan 20, 2006
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And how much is that going to cost? Not to mention the fact that the local services on that line aren't very good. (I'm not sure there are any on a Sunday!).
As danielneeds has pointed out, this thread is silly because it is premised on the idea that the NDP is not 'viable' for reasons other than finance. What reasons?
Transport connections? Well, the first thing to say is that is not as much of a deal-maker/breaker as people seem to think. In any case, a site with better transport connections is going to cost more than the NDP, making financing even more difficult. The club are on record as having spent time and effort examining other possible sites, but none were as good as the NDP one.
Don't be distracted by Levy's hints that we would have to move anyway if we didn't get Stratford. Again, ask yourself why. No, these hints were part of the PR offensive. Levy was spinning so much, he was dizzy. It was an effort to counter the argument that Spurs pulling the plug on Tottenham would have significant consequences for the local area. If, in his invented argument, we had to leave anyway, then that should not be a factor in the Stratford decision. All bullshit spin.
Leaving aside the transport issue, which is a marginal distraction when looking at the bigger picture, the NDP is a good site. It's on the historical location; it will not alienate a substantial section of the support; it's owned freehold by the club; it allows for enabling development; and the bonus is we can continue to play while building the new stadium.
How much of a problem is finance?
We really don't know. Spurs managed to get together a financial package for the Stratford bid, though there are rumours that the OPLC were concerned about it, or at least that they found the West Ham financing lower risk. Perhaps it would be more difficult to assemble for the NDP, but maybe not that much more difficult? Who knows?
All the fuss about our bid will at least have drawn attention to the need for Haringey, the Mayor's Office and central government to be as accommodating as possible, though they've done little if anything wrong so far in respect of the NDP. There's talk about a renewed attempt to get public money, but that seems unlikely. Yet, since the Stratford decision, Claire Kober has said that if Spurs commit to the borough they can work together to 'lever in initial investment', public as well as private. It can't come from Haringey, but it's not impossible and, despite all that has happened, the club and Haringey have maintained a good relationship.
It might be the case that THFC can negotiate lower S.106 costs, but they don't amount to very much in the general scheme of things.
One question that remains with me is why not just build the stadium and forget, for now, the rest of the development except the supermarket? It's £250m (minus the profit from the supermarket), and this amount could be financed down at Stratford. When financing gets easier, then build the hotel and flats.
Sotm
The NDP is dead in the water and so not going to happen, that's what Daniel Levy said, you may not believe it and I may not believe it but more importantly Haringey Council, the mayor and anyone else that matters may not believe it and it is important that they do believe it because even if it is not dead in the water but it causes financing difficulties then the club needs to make positive moves to find other suitable sites as an alternative option even if only as a bargaining tool.
This "silly" thread is therefore for any of the Spurs community to offer up their ideas on what sites are out there and where they are, you can take it as serious as you like or as whimsically as you like but I do believe this is a discussion that will have to be had within the club and we are just pre-empting it.
That said do you know of any alternative options.
Fair enough SotM you've made your point so probably not the thread for you.
As danielneeds has pointed out, this thread is silly because it is premised on the idea that the NDP is not 'viable' for reasons other than finance. What reasons?
In fact, we have no idea why Levy claimed it wasn't viable. Levy hasn't really mentioned finance at all; the only hint we've had is his claim that Arsenal received public funding (not from Islington Council, they didn't). Prior to that he hadn't asked for any financial support from Haringey. Otherwise, the only thing resembling a reason we've had is the claim that it could take 'years' for the CPOs to go through, which is cock.
Levy changed his spin from 'the NDP is not currently viable' (i.e. Stratford is a better deal) to a last-gasp declaration that it was 'dead in the water', clearly intended to deflect the criticisms of those who didn't want the area of Tottenham to lose out on the regeneration benefits of the stadium. We would be pulling out anyway, according to the spin.
Likewise, the CPO business was another bit of spin designed to deal with the very real argument that the NDP stadium should come on line some period of time before the Stratford stadium (given no delays caused by the Olympics).
You're right that he hasn't been directly quoted as having mentioned financing, but there have been heavy hints in the media. Though they may be partly spun, it would be surprising if the terms of the equation hadn't changed since the first announcement of the NDP, what with the greater difficulty in borrowing property development money. Of course, this doesn't make the NDP non-viable but it may require further work - work that hasn't been done since Levy's been distracted by the false idol of Stratford.
Sotm
If the NDP had been announced in October 2006 any concerns the club may have over financing would be far easier to sympathise with; however, the project was announced two years later, after the banks had started collapsing.
All that said, I still can't believe that Levy, with his first-class Cambridge degree in economics
Somewhere around Tottenham's best and most well known transport hub, Tottenham Hale, would have been ideal. But we missed the boat with that one somehow, and allowed a developer to build on prime football stadia land!
The NDP is dead in the water and so not going to happen, that's what Daniel Levy said, you may not believe it and I may not believe it but more importantly Haringey Council, the mayor and anyone else that matters may not believe it and it is important that they do believe it because even if it is not dead in the water but it causes financing difficulties then the club needs to make positive moves to find other suitable sites as an alternative option even if only as a bargaining tool.
This "silly" thread is therefore for any of the Spurs community to offer up their ideas on what sites are out there and where they are, you can take it as serious as you like or as whimsically as you like but I do believe this is a discussion that will have to be had within the club and we are just pre-empting it.
That said do you know of any alternative options.
The corner of Broad lane/Fountayne road the one way road that runs from Tottenham Hale station to Seven Sisters Station. There's an disused industrial estate there and both stations are about 10 mins walk away.
I don't think the revised plan for NDP that got planning approval is viable. The original plans were. Remember the first set of plans were for 450 affordable homes when the CABE saw the plan, they decided that was far too many and Levy had too reduce the number to 200. Now bear in mind that the homes being built on the site were essentially to offset the cost of the stadium than that is more than half the anticipated income from the sale of flats. I suspect that levy knew the revised plans were unviable even as the planning consent was being decided. He had to get planning permission for the site simply so that at least the land now has value as at the very least it can be sold to any prospective developer.