How good is our squad?

[eddiebailey]

GK Gomes, Caesar
RB Hutton, Gunter
CB Woodgate, Dawson
CB King, Corluka
LB Bale, Assou-Ekottu
RM Bentley, Lennon
CM Zokora, Huddlestone
CM Jenas, O'Hara
LM Modric, Gilberto
ST Pavyluchenko, Campbell
ST Bent, Dos Santos

GK Both new to the Prem, but Gomes is looking good so far

RB Both promising youngsters, new to the Prem

CB ray: Please don't let Woodgate be injured

LB Both youngsters, not much Prem experience, better going forward than defending - Bale does look an outstanding prospect though

RM Ah, now we have some real quality, both proven Premiership players who would grace any mid-table side

CM Zoko and Thudd tend to be square pegs, Jenas is a perennial disappointment and O'Hara still has a lot to prove.

LM Modric looks quality, but not so far in the Prem; Gilberto is our most eccentric signing since Danny Murphy

ST Bent is the only proven Prem striker, and he is badly off form; Pav should do okay, needs time to adapt; the others are promising kids.

I see a lot of potential there, but no much proven quality. Yes there are a lot of promising youngsters, but I have seen too many youngsters fail to progress at Spurs (Dawson for one), for me to hang my hat on any of the current crop. As for the imports, the spectre of Rebrov hangs heavy.

What worries me more is that I all I see is a randomly assembled collection of players. I do not see any semblance of a team emerging.

We should not be relegation fodder, but I do not see us as being close to having the fifth strongest squad in the Premiership.

 

[Krafty]

Its that CM position. I like O'Hara, I feel Tommy has potential, but none of them will win a game by themselves, none of them will get a grip on the game and make something special happen. The defence and attack are disengaged with the midfield.

If we create the strikers will score. If we stop the opposition giving the ball to their strikers so much our defence will keep them out. But we need the midfield to at least be performing well for that to happen, and they are not even performing poorly, they have largely been dire.

 

[Hoowl]

I agree about the randomly assembled talent. Spurs are like England. Lots of individual talent. Looking man for man they virtually always come off on top. Yet once the game gets going they don't look like a team. The anthesis is villa who have lots of players we wouldn't have touched with a barge pole and yet they work very well together in a system. From what I have seen this season I'm very happy with our defence and keeper and I think we look so much better than the beginning of last season when Dawson and kaboul were all over the place against everton. Since the start of last season we've gained woodgate, Hutton, gunter, corluka and gomes all of whom I rate (i'm denying all knowledge of gilberto). I think that's one of the best defences I've seen at tottenham in years. In midfield we've lost tainio (who was permenantly injured) and steed and gained modric, bentley and dos santos. Seems like an improvement to me. Were still lacking a defensive midfielder but we have some creativity (modric, dos santos, hudd) some box to boxers (jenas, zokora, o'hara) and some wide men (dos santos, bentley and Lennon). Up front we have lost two of the premier leagues best strikers. However we've still got bent who has a fantastic premiership record and pav who has a great record for his country and previous clubs.

On paper, man for man, we are pretty special. Dare I say fifth? I'd probably say top six. In reality we're not entirely balanced and several positions short of a team. However we do have enough to work with for the time being and certainly enough to start beating the likes of Sunderland and wigan.

 

[Has1978]

Basically agree. Some genuine quality, some great prospects but, alas, some holes in our squad in the perennial key areas. And a lack of bite.

 

[General Levy]

The spine of the team is flawed. Dawson o'hara, Huddlestone, zokora, Jenas all play way too many games. How many of the above get into any other EPL team?

I would rather have Bramble then Dawson. Ohara is way too slow and one footed, Huddlestone cant move, Jenas is clueless and Zokora is only good at running.

WE ARE FUCKED

 

[yanno]

Whilst I agree with many of Eddie's judgements, it would be possible to be just as critical of the goons' squad. My point being that they have plenty of weaknesses, but - much as it pains me to say it - Wenger does seem to get them playing attractive winning football most weeks. Well, when they're not playing those Premier League powerhouses: Hull City. :rofl:

--------------------------------

GK: Almunia or Fabianski

I'll take Gomes & Cesar.

RB: Sagna (Eboue)

I'm happy with Hutton, Corluka, Gunter.

LB: Clichy (Gallas, Silvestre)

BAE is very like Clichy, but not as good

CB: Toure, Gallas, Silvestre, Djorou

We all know Woodgate is quality and King's knees are the real issue.

RM: Walnutt, Eboue - one learning his game, the other a clueless athlete

Bentley & Lennon match up pretty well - if Bentley remembers how to cross and deliver a dead ball.

LM: Rosicky, Nasri - one quality, one great potential, both injured so Eboue played LM for them at the weekend. :rofl:

Bale and Dos Santos both have the potential to be as good or better

CM: Fabregas - one of the best playmakers in the world

Modric is a great playmaker for Croatia, adapting to the EPL (if Juande works out where to play him).

CM2: Denilson, Diaby (ridiculously right-footed), Ramsey, Song - all unproven potential

Jenas, Huddlestone, Zokora, O'Hara - are any of them good enough at what they do?

ACM/2nd striker: van Pervie - injuryprone but talented, Vela - unproven potential like his Mexican teammate Gio

Bent, Fraizer C - they're less gifted, more direct, we don't know yet how good a finisher Fraizer is.

Striker/target man: Adebayor, Bendtner - very effective at what they do

Pavlyuchenko, good record for Russia, but we need to play to his strengths

 

[General Levy]

^^

Our squad looks great on paper but due to unknown circumstances, they are unable to play like a team.

Our squad is light years ahead of west ham's on paper, but collectively, they are better than us. If we played them tomorrow, they would be odds on favourites.

Yanno, you are clutching at straws mate.

Also:

LB: Clichy (Gallas, Silvestre)
BAE is very like Clichy, but not as good

Biggest understatement of all time? :shrug:

 

[coldasice199]

^^



Also:


Bae looks like clichy but isn't anywhere as good

Biggest understatement of all time? :shrug:

Better?

 

[yanno]

Our squad looks great on paper but due to unknown circumstances, they are unable to play like a team.

Our squad is light years ahead of west ham's on paper, but collectively, they are better than us. If we played them tomorrow, they would be odds on favourites.

Yanno, you are clutching at straws mate.

I agree that our talented squad is currently unable to play like a team. Which begs a multi-million pound question.... :roll:

Gen Levy - I probably am clutching at straws. It's an old habit for us Spurs fans and drives many of us to ruin.... :beer:

 

[General Levy]

Maybe...

Bae has a left foot and is french just like clichy but isn't anywhere as good

:shrug:

 

[General Levy]

I agree that our talented squad is currently unable to play like a team. Which begs a multi-million pound question.... :roll:

Gen Levy - I probably am clutching at straws. It's an old habit for us Spurs fans and drives many of us to ruin.... :beer:

I think that due to recent times we should be comparing ourselves to west ham instead of Arsenal and Chelsea...

 

[yanno]

I think that due to recent times we should be comparing ourselves to west ham instead of Arsenal and Chelsea...

Except that in one of those "the spammers are bankrupt so let's sign their best players" threads, the consensus was that we didn't want any of their useless overpaid jokers....

The reason I produced that position-for-positon comparison with the scum was to show that with our general quality of player, there really is no excuse for the clueless and passionless displays we've seen recently.

The players are at least as responsible as Ramos. For instance, fit or unfit, David Bentley should still be able to deliver a set piece with the same consistent excellence as he did last season for Blackburn....

 

[SpurSince57]

On the other hand, how good would Clichy have looked if he'd been dumped straight in at the deep end? He had about three seasons understudying Cashley.

It seems to me that we're trying to emulate Arsenal's system, which is no bad thing, but without the foundation of a decade of more or less unbroken success. We simply don't have (and haven't had) a sufficiently strong first-team squad. Youngsters like Assou-Ekotto don't get eased in gradually, they tend to get thrown in and when they can't cope with a faster, more physical, qualitatively superior league and don't become instant superstars we—the fans, that is—write them off.

 

[theaman]

GK and RB positions are solid. Top 4 quality? Quite possibly.

At CB, King's injury record means we're effectively left with 3 CBs. And as you say, we need Woodgate to stay fit. Corluka looks decent though his lack of pace is a worry. Dawson is 4th choice at best now - this is one area that needs to be addressed.

At LB, we only really have Bale. BAE is nowhere near good enough for us; in fact he'd struggle to fit into a number of sides in the EPL. Needs to be sold and this is one position that needs to be addressed soon.

At RM, we have Bentley and Lennon. And I wouldn't have many other RMs in the league. Both top 4 quality on their day. They just need to improve aspects of their game, such as accuracy of crossing - or crossing itself for Lennon.

At CM, we have big problems. Jenas is not good enough for a top 4 side - perhaps for a top half side but certainly not for us. Zokora does have his moments but unfortunately he is too inconsistent. Huddlestone has one of the best range of passing in the league. Unfortunately, his lack of mobility prevents him from being a player that helps us into the top 4. Squad player at best. That leaves us with just Modric and O'Hara. The former is one of the best midfielders on the European stage, and though, he hasn't settled yet, he has the raw quality to provide the creative spark we need from the midfield. As for O'Hara, he has the passion, the guile and his technique has improved greatly since he has broken into the first team squad on a regular basis in the last season or so.

However, our main problem here is obviously our lack of a DM. This is our number one priority for January (or so we'd hope). Once this is addressed, it'll be a major platform from us to build on. On top of a DM signing, we need at least one more quality player in the middle of the park - a box-to-box player who can also provide goals if need be.

At LM, we have Giovanni and Gilberto. Gilberto has failed to impress in any of the games he has featured in, despite scoring against West Ham last season. His latest appearance against Pompey was pitiful and exactly the sort of performance we need to stamp out if we are to escape from trouble. Giovanni has played out on the right on a number of occasions but can fill the LM role. We need to bring in a more established LM here - or at least another left sided player to support Bale if he is to play here.

Up front, Pavlyuchenko is yet to settle - or even have a strike partner. Time will tell as to whether he'll be a success. As for Bent, he is now getting his first chance to really prove he was worth the £16.5m fee. He needs support - even from another striker or better delivery from the midfield, but he is a proven Premiership goalscorer and for me, he definitely merits a place at least in the squad, if not in the first team.
Campbell has shown great potential in the times he has entered as a sub. Unfortunately, this move isn't permanent and we will need to bring another striker to bed in, in January. We lack an all-round finisher and creator and this is someone who will complement our existing strikers.

Overall - the positions we need to fill are CB, LB, two CMs, LM and a striker. And we can get rid of around 10 players at the same time - including 2 or 3 first-teamers who clearly aren't good enough to be in the team for us to progress.

It really is a case of 'the sooner the better' but I don't feel we are too far off top 4 material (on paper at least). We've got some strong positions, but at the moment, it's like a jigsaw - with a few missing pieces that just need putting together...

 

[joey55]

Your squad is often what you make of it. Who would have wanted to sign Stephen Ireland this summer? But Hughes has him playing fantastically. I didn't see many calling for us to sign SWP. Who would want Ben Haim, Johnson or Hamman (now seriously slow). Kompany was signed with no rival bids. He was poor in Germany, much like Samba, but Hughes has him playing well. If Jo was playing for us, he'd have scored zero goals. And Ched Evans wouldn't be near our team.

I seriously doubt many of our fans would have been pleased if we signed Luke Young, Stillian Petrov, Reo Coker, Shorey, Curtis Davies or Carew. But O'Neil has them playing really well.

When Jol took over I don't seem to remember many saying Carrick was an £18.6 million player. Infact he was sub. Wasn't Keane meant to be going to the likes of Villa, Celtic or Everton for £5 million? Lennon was a bit part player for Leeds. Dawson had been playing for Forest. Stalteri and TT were free transfers. Yet he got them playing, improving us as a team and as individuals. FFS Mido scored 11 goals and got 6 assists in just 24 starts!

Our squad is more talented than any other outside the top 4. The reason some might say it isn't as strong as other squads is purely down to the fact other teams play to their strengths and the players have improved. Which of our players has improved in the last year?

I keep reading how we are suffering from poor strikers and therefore should expect a top 5 finish. Well I'm sorry but if Villa had Pav and Bent instead of Carew and Agbonlahor, they'd still be doing great. And it's not because of they have better midfielders or defenders than us. If we had Reo Coker and Davies in our side, they'd be shit. We have every right to expect a top 6 finish and we really should be favourites for 5th. We just aren't making anywhere near enough of the talent we have available.

 

[eddiebailey]

We've got some strong positions, but at the moment, it's like a jigsaw - with a few missing pieces that just need putting together...

To be honest it feels more like we have bits from two different jigsaws, as Rob's excellent front page article the other day highlighted.

Yanno's comparison with the Arsenal squad is interesting, if a little over-generous. I agree with SS57's point, that the difference between us and them is that we are obliged to throw our kids in at the deep end, but would add that the promise off first team football was the lure that led many of our young talents join us. It was a juggling act Jol was aware of, and he recognised the value of surrounding young starlets with decent journeymen. For me the wheels fell of with our transfer activity prior to last season, which threw the squad off balance.

I feel that too much faith is now being placed in a largely untested group of players. Only Woodgate, King, Dawson, Jenas, Zokora, Lennon, Bentley, Bent and to an extent Corluka have really been tested in the Premiership, and some of those have been found wanting. (I am not counting King, because, well, you can't count on King.) The rest we have hopes for, but there have been so many players down he years who we had high hopes for.

 

[joey55]

Someone posted the otherday that our squad for the 2005/6 was easlity the 5th best in the Prem. That may have been true by the end of the season, but it sure as fuck wasn't before the season started. Squads and players evolve. Others are and ours isn't. Therefore our perception of how good we are or what we should realistically expect is changing.

 

[kcmei]

we cannot play with the tempo we currently play at yet. Its like running before walking

 

[eddiebailey]

Joey, I agree we are underachieving with the talent we have, but is not part of the problem precisely that we have failed to sign the sort of players O'Neill signed? Wee have discarded and failed to replace decent journeymen, such as Tainio, Lee, Malbranque etc, and now have an unbalanced squad, lacking in nous and leadership.

 

[joey55]

Joey, I agree we are underachieving with the talent we have, but is not part of the problem precisely that we have failed to sign the sort of players O'Neill signed? Wee have discarded and failed to replace decent journeymen, such as Tainio, Lee, Malbranque etc, and now have an unbalanced squad, lacking in nous and leadership.

Look at it like this, do you really think if we signed Curtis Davies, Nigel Reo Coker, Luke Young, John Carew or Stillan Petrov, they'd be doing as well for us? I can't see it.

In the same way Pav was totally isolated on Sunday, so Carew would have been. Villa play to Agbonlahors strengths which, is to play the ball in behind teams, so he can stretch teams. That's Bents strength! Yet he's having the ball played into him with his back to goal and being described as similar to Pav!

Look at how Reo Coker broke against us. On 2 or 3 occassions he only had to play a simple pass to one of the players supporting him and they'd have scored. Yet Zokora did exaclty the same thing yesterday, only he had no one supporting him. They actually highlighted that on MOTD.

I don't think Curtis Davies is anymore talented than Kaboul, but in the last 6 months one has become top class and the other is ahving to start again at another club.

Villa don't really have many journeymen. I agree we needed some experience and Woodgate has proved that. You might be right and make a good point, but those journeymen we let go were definitely the managers choice to discard and I think the way some have been treated is poor.