Highest Profit ever from an English Football Club

[Lilbaz]

ah see the BSoDL are out in force today ..........bless em

The Want A New Chairman Krew are out again. Or as I call them Wanckers.

 

[NEVILLEB]

This is such a simplistic argument it's ridiculous.

You are either suggesting that:

1. Levy hasn't spent any money on the club, which is ridiculous considering the infrastructure he's put in place since he got here; or

2. Even though we've spent all that money, we should be spending even more on players at the same time, which is equally ridiculous as it's just unrealistic unless you've got an oil sheikh in charge...which you may have noticed we haven't.

Anyway I'm now done trying to argue this point with you as you are clearly so blinkered in your anti-Levy position that you won't even try to see the positive things he's done for the club. As I've said many times on here, Levy is flawed in many ways and has made many mistakes which he deserves criticism for.

But if you genuinely think it's realistic that we should be competing with teams that have limitless funds then frankly you are going to be disappointed until we get our own Abramovich.

It's not about limitless funds. It's amount the decisions Levy makes.

Soldado £26M
Lamela £30M
Paulinho £17M

 

[Ribble]

we need to do a mixture of things to compete, yes as you say develop the scouting net work and yes develop some young talent but we also need invest funds to at least be an attractive alternative for top players.
I fully understand in a direct fight with one of the top 4 we will lose on wages but at the moment even when these players are not courted by the top 4 they choose to stay where they are rather than come to us because we dont make the offer attractive enough but if we prudently invested more funds to this area we could change this.
To your first point yes Liverpool are the weakest of the pack but we have averaged a 5th place finish over the last 6 years so staying above or at least neck and neck with them is far from impossible.

Whilst it would certainly be nice to, it's not really feasible without pushing the wage % up higher, which doesn't mean one-time losses but a possible 4-5 years of them. Given our recent history of spending big (Bent, Bentley, Ade, Soldado, Lamela) I think it's pretty clear why Levy is reluctant to commit to that. Additionally with so much dead wood on the books right now I don't think it's going too far to say that it's actually more important to get rid of that first and reinvest the money saved more prudently, as opposed to throwing more money at the situation.

As I said, Liverpool have been in a mess, but we can't rely on that continuing forever.

 

[Lilbaz]

It's not about limitless funds. It's amount the decisions Levy makes.

Soldado £26M
Lamela £30M
Paulinho £17M

Were you not excited by any of those purchases when we made them?

 

[Ribble]

Were you not excited by any of those purchases when we made them?

Also those aren't really his decisions. Levy isn't a scout, so he's relying on people to give him correct recommendations.

 

[Lilbaz]

Also those aren't really his decisions. Levy isn't a scout, so he's relying on people to give him correct recommendations.

Oh come now. You know he plays Football Manager all night looking for good deals.

 

[talkshowhost86]

It's not about limitless funds. It's amount the decisions Levy makes.

Soldado £26M
Lamela £30M
Paulinho £17M

Completely agree that these are the sorts of things Levy can be criticised for and as I've said he's definitely made mistakes. You could argue that he wasn't the one choosing the players, but he did hire AVB and co so he has to take the responsibility for that.

But that doesn't stop the fact that the amount of money a club can spend has a direct impact on how successful they can be. With a bit of good management teams can punch above their financial weight, which is exactly what we were doing in the years when we were consistently finishing 4th/5th. But on average, nobody can argue that money isn't the most significant factor in how a club does these days.

It's rubbish.

But it's true.

 

[Indacupfortottenham]

It's not about limitless funds. It's amount the decisions Levy makes.

Soldado £26M
Lamela £30M
Paulinho £17M

Bale £7m
Modric £14m
Berbatov £11m

You win some, you lose some.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You're really starting to come across as a bit of a troll. If you're incapable of reading and understanding the points I'm making, please don't reply in such a sloppy and inconsiderate manner. It just makes you look a bit simple.

You want us to be ambitious and aspirational, play flowing winning football, but you don't want to have to pay for it.

Failing to show an understanding of the realities of how we have to operate as a football business, or more accurately, failing to reconcile some understanding of how we have to operate as a football business with what we are realistically able to achieve on the pitch just makes you look like whiny schoolboy.

You're complaining because you want us to offer a better product for consumers, but you want us (consumers of that product) to pay less.

Which amounts to you saying "I want something that at the moment is economically unrealistic" which is like a child complaining that he wants his mum and dad to buy him stuff at christmas that they can't afford to do unless they borrow shit loads of money and pay it back for years so he has a nice day, or unless they die and he is adopted by new wealthy parents.

So IMO, constantly whining about something which is realistically economically almost impossible and at best highly improbable is far more like trolling.

What I am saying (and others) is that "this is the situation, I'd like for us to be in an economic position to do better in footballing terms, because I understand that that is what is required, but until we are in a better economic position I can appreciate us achieving what our economic position merits because having been a fan for over 40 years I know that for the vast majority of that time we didn't achieve that even when we were economically better off in relation to others. And I also would love for us to achieve better than sixth without being in a better economic situation but I understand that that will take an extra-ordinary set of circumstances such as having a genius coach and/or a set of players better that our economic situation would normally allow"

And I feel the same about the team. If we have a team that is better than 6th best then I'll be disappointed if it finishes 6th. If we have a team worse than 6th then I'll be pleased of it finishes 6th.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Were you not excited by any of those purchases when we made them?

Honestly no

 

[NEVILLEB]

Bale £7m
Modric £14m
Berbatov £11m

You win some, you lose some.

We've lost a lot since Redknapp was fired!

 

[Spurger King]

You want us to be ambitious and aspirational, play flowing winning football, but you don't want to have to pay for it.

Failing to show an understanding of the realities of how we have to operate as a football business, or more accurately, failing to reconcile some understanding of how we have to operate as a football business with what we are realistically able to achieve on the pitch just makes you look like whiny schoolboy.

You're complaining because you want us to offer a better product for consumers, but you want us (consumers of that product) to pay less.

Which amounts to you saying "I want something that at the moment is economically unrealistic" which is like a child complaining that he wants his mum and dad to buy him stuff at christmas that they can't afford to do unless they borrow shit loads of money and pay it back for years so he has a nice day, or unless they die and he is adopted by new wealthy parents.

So IMO, constantly whining about something which is realistically economically almost impossible and at best highly improbable is far more like trolling.

What I am saying (and others) is that "this is the situation, I'd like for us to be in an economic position to do better in footballing terms, because I understand that that is what is required, but until we are in a better economic position I can appreciate us achieving what our economic position merits because having been a fan for over 40 years I know that for the vast majority of that time we didn't achieve that even when we were economically better off in relation to others. And I also would love for us to achieve better than sixth without being in a better economic situation but I understand that that will take an extra-ordinary set of circumstances such as having a genius coach and/or a set of players better that our economic situation would normally allow"

And I feel the same about the team. If we have a team that is better than 6th best then I'll be disappointed if it finishes 6th. If we have a team worse than 6th then I'll be pleased of it finishes 6th.

I think your first sentence pretty much sums up why you're incapable of a productive discussion. I've not mentioned "flowing, winning football" - as per usual you just put words in the mouths of others to construct your own arguments whilst wilfully passing over the whole pesky ordeal of actually reading what has been posted.

Followed by your go-to derogatory put-downs that rely on references to "grown ups" and "whiny children". It would be patronising if your posting history hadn't already eroded any respect I have for your opinion.

I guess I'll say it again in the off-chance that you might take it in, so maybe you should take a deep breath, put on your reading glasses for once, and try and focus....Levy is doing as well as he can be expected to do.

I just don't take much comfort in the idea of settling for 6th best. You've been a fan for 40 years, and harp on about the low points as if that makes being the 'best of the rest' some sort of golden era, but you seem to gloss over the fact that you also got to witness Spurs actually competing for, and winning, trophies in the 80s. Having started supporting Spurs in 1990 I've never had that pleasure, so if I choose to be unsatisfied with the club reaching its limit and falling short of being genuinely competitive, that's not only my prerogative, but a perfectly understandable one...to those with an inkling of comprehension.

 

[allatsea]

This lovely profit some are moaning about. Are we sure it is after the purchases made with the Bale money ? I have a suspicion that we made such a lovely profit because the Bale money hadn't yet been spent. The spending fell into the following financial year.

 

[chinaman]

Completely agree that these are the sorts of things Levy can be criticised for and as I've said he's definitely made mistakes. You could argue that he wasn't the one choosing the players, but he did hire AVB and co so he has to take the responsibility for that.

But that doesn't stop the fact that the amount of money a club can spend has a direct impact on how successful they can be. With a bit of good management teams can punch above their financial weight, which is exactly what we were doing in the years when we were consistently finishing 4th/5th. But on average, nobody can argue that money isn't the most significant factor in how a club does these days.

It's rubbish.

But it's true.

Levy cannot be blamed for signing the duds that have been recommended by the professional scouts and advisers. But certainly he is to blame for overpricing the duds resulting in failing to unload them quick enough and thereby let them eat into the wage bill. Bentley was a total loss and so was BAE, and I guess Ade will follow the same pattern.

 

[tommo84]

As @sweetness and @TottenhamLegend have already implied, profit and cashflow are two very different things. I wouldn't get too hung up on the profit figures, but the lack of debt and the fact we have money in the bank (albeit only a few £m) is very positive.

To quote one of my old tutors, "profit is fiction, cash is king".

 

[Lilbaz]

http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/show-me-money.html

 

[tommo84]

This lovely profit some are moaning about. Are we sure it is after the purchases made with the Bale money ? I have a suspicion that we made such a lovely profit because the Bale money hadn't yet been spent. The spending fell into the following financial year.

This is a significant factor, but you're still thinking in cash terms to a large extent, not accounting (ie profit) terms.

The spending from a cashflow pov occurred in the same accounting period (all year ending 30 June 2014). However, the profit on Bale's sale will have been recognised in that period (at the point of sale). Meanwhile, any players we sign will not have a big impact on the income statement (profit/loss) in the year they are acquired. The likes of Lamela and Soldado will have been capitalised (so in simple terms £30m goes out of cash for Lamela and into Fixed Assets - there is no immediate impact on the income statement). Instead, Lamela's value as an asset on the balance sheet will be amortised over the length of his contract (so £6m per annum). Therefore the profit figure on the income statement is indeed distorted by how the Bale money was spent, but this is mirrored across all football clubs.

What then also makes it more complicated is that if Lamela's fee was £26m rising to £30m based on certain conditions, that £4m will not hit the balance sheet or the income statement until those conditions are met. Instead at the back of the financial statements for every football club there is a long note explaining the total value of all these conditions (both relating to player purchases and sales) are contingent liabilities.

Basically, the profit figure is merely a rough indicator in footballing terms - the cashflow figures are what give us an idea of spending power.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think your first sentence pretty much sums up why you're incapable of a productive discussion. I've not mentioned "flowing, winning football" - as per usual you just put words in the mouths of others to construct your own arguments whilst wilfully passing over the whole pesky ordeal of actually reading what has been posted.

Followed by your go-to derogatory put-downs that rely on references to "grown ups" and "whiny children". It would be patronising if your posting history hadn't already eroded any respect I have for your opinion.

I guess I'll say it again in the off-chance that you might take it in, so maybe you should take a deep breath, put on your reading glasses for once, and try and focus....Levy is doing as well as he can be expected to do.

I just don't take much comfort in the idea of settling for 6th best. You've been a fan for 40 years, and harp on about the low points as if that makes being the 'best of the rest' some sort of golden era, but you seem to gloss over the fact that you also got to witness Spurs actually competing for, and winning, trophies in the 80s. Having started supporting Spurs in 1990 I've never had that pleasure, so if I choose to be unsatisfied with the club reaching its limit and falling short of being genuinely competitive, that's not only my prerogative, but a perfectly understandable one...to those with an inkling of comprehension.

You accuse me of putting words in your mouth but you started it and have continually done the same (including in the post above) with your "some people seem to be happy be also rans" bollocks. And to accuse me of put downs is more hypocrisy when you've done also done the same.

I saw us get to 5 finals in the 80's (winning 3 of them). This decade phase also saw us finish between 3rd and 13th, averaging 6.4th. And that was when we were one of the 3 richest clubs in the country and had the kind of fiscal superiority over the rest that the likes of Chelsea or ManC have had over the rest now. The eighties was actually marred by under achievement, that while Everton and Liverpool were winning titles (and cups) we won three cups and no titles. The last decade we have reached 3 finals (won 1) and averaged 6.1th place.

It's not about taking comfort in being 6th best, it's about not criticising and be condescending to others, which is what your initial post was doing ("I get the impression some people are happy to finish below Chelsea and Arsenal every blah blah") just because they can appreciate the reality of the situation we find ourselves in as a club.

I personally think we wasted two great chances to secure CL football under Redknapp, because i think we had a team and external circumstances capable of achieving it. And I whined accordingly.

So I repeat. I have no problem with you whining, that's what this place is, a whine emporium, but I have an issue with you accusing others of not matching your aspirations just because they express an understanding of the current situation and have some perspective.

And I don't agree with you if you say the board/chairman aren't ambitious - as they continually demonstrate this, from awarding huge contracts to try and secure top coaches, to investing in the infrastructure, to building a new stadium. All designed to make us a better football team.

 

[225]

Whats more embarassing is that you actually think Ramos and George Graham did a better job than Redknapp. LOL

There's a key difference between "did a better job" and "won a trophy".

Redknapp benefitted massively from the work put in by Jol and Comolli (for signings and the talent available in the team) and Ramos (for getting them all in shape). He also drove the wage bill up by something daft like 50%.

You don't build statues for managers who finish 4th, you do it for managers who fill the trophy cabinet.

To be fair, pre Champions League, 4th didn't mean shit really

It doesn't mean that much looking back either, though. No one would buy a memorial shirt of when we finished 4th, but the UEFA & FA Cup final shirts....

 

[Lilbaz]

Redknapp benefitted massively from the work put in by Jol and Comolli (for signings and the talent available in the team) and Ramos (for getting them all in shape).