Harry Winks - Leicester City

[WiganSpur]

Coincidence we’ve hit our best form with winks as deep playmaker instead of Dier ? We move it so much quicker with Winks in the team.

I've always thought Wanyama and Winks was the ideal combo, or with Wanyama at the base with Winks and one or Alli or Eriksen in front most games. It's just been a shame about Wanyama's injuries.

We look short of a few tackles in the midfield sometimes but my god we are moving it so much better without Dier there. I'd be tempted to bring Skipp in more to add some bite.

 

[Shadydan]

Coincidence we’ve hit our best form with winks as deep playmaker instead of Dier ? We move it so much quicker with Winks in the team.

We've hit our best form with Sissoko playing mate

 

[glospur]

Coincidence we’ve hit our best form with winks as deep playmaker instead of Dier ? We move it so much quicker with Winks in the team.

If this was the case, how do you account for our patches of excellent form in the past, be it last season, the one before, or whenever, when Dier's been in midfield?

Our great form atm isn't because Dier is or isn't in the team, although I would argue that his absence has made us less imposing in midfield in the last few weeks, or at least it's been a lot easier for the opposition to play through there given he's not playing.

 

[smallsnc]

I think our form at this time of year picks up due to our fitness levels and ability to recover quickly while our opponents struggle with the schedule congestion.

 

[dontcallme]

Our form picks up when we play better.

 

[coys200]

Our form picks up when we play better.

Finish better. I think yesterday we had 10 efforts on goal 7 on target. In these sort of games we usually get close to 20 efforts if not more. The difference the last 2 games is virtually every shot has gone in.

 

[dontcallme]

Finish better. I think yesterday we had 10 efforts on goal 7 on target. In these sort of games we usually get close to 20 efforts if not more. The difference the last 2 games is virtually every shot has gone in.

Not sure you were meant to quote me.

 

[lol]

needs to learn how to shield the ball better, time to watch more modric. and squat. heavy ass squats

 

[morris25]

As our midfield play maker, did he actually pass the ball forward once yesterday. This is the area we must strengthen to move forwards. He isn't good enough for top 6 even with your rose tinted glasses on

 

[theShiznit]

As our midfield play maker, did he actually pass the ball forward once yesterday. This is the area we must strengthen to move forwards. He isn't good enough for top 6 even with your rose tinted glasses on

Yes.

 

[thecook]

His forward vision is something to be worked on but his primary job is to retain the ball and keep it moving. We have others, especially Eriksen who sometimes drop a bit deeper to receive the ball who will then play the more penetrating forward pass.

He's no Modric or even Carrick, but he's doing a bloody good job considering his injuries. He will only get better.

 

[Primativ]

He did ok yesterday, I watched him closely but I don't really see what he does which is unique or special or which couldn't be replicated with a better player. He's just a cookie cutter pass the ball sideways, there is no penetration from him, even in games yesterday where we completely dominated. He passes the ball and moves into space to receive it, fine. But is that really all we need from that position? I'd love someone to point out to me what other attributes he brings into CM that makes him so valuable?

His ball retention is generally very high, but that's because he always passes the ball 5 yards left to right. He isn't strong defensively, and he isn't strong offensively.

As I say, he never does anything in a game which makes me go AHA! So that is why he's in the side. Even compared to Sissoko, who genuinely had a few moments yesterday like that turn on the Cardiff player and then sprinted forward which directly led to one of our goals and really impacted our result.

There was a couple of times Winks lost the ball, running into blind alleys, once when he broke from our box and and ran into 3 Cardiff players instead of releasing the ball, and his lack of pace and upper body strength is alarming.

My priority if I was Poch would be to upgrade our CM but it would be Winks not Sissoko who got replaced (if we could only sign one player).

 

[JimmyG2]

His forward vision is something to be worked on but his primary job is to retain the ball and keep it moving. We have others, especially Eriksen who sometimes drop a bit deeper to receive the ball who will then play the more penetrating forward pass.

He's no Modric or even Carrick, but he's doing a bloody good job considering his injuries. He will only get better.

Nor were Modric and Carrick
when they were 22.

Carrick was on loan from W:Ham
at Swindon and Birmingham
at that age.
Came to Spurs at 23.

Modric too was 23 when he came to Spurs
and had been on loan from Dynamo Zagreb
before that.

Neither were at their peak
for another couple of years.
and both received early doubts
about their quality.

I like the boy OOOO.

 

[kmk]

Nor were Modric and Carrick
when they were 22.

Carrick was on loan from W:Ham
at Swindon and Birmingham
at that age.
Came to Spurs at 23.

Modric too was 23 when he came to Spurs
and had been on loan from Dynamo Zagreb
before that.

Neither were at their peak
for another couple of years.
and both received early doubts
about their quality.

I like the boy OOOO.

Carrick was 18/19 when he was out on loan to Swindon and Birmingham.

 

[Primativ]

Nor were Modric and Carrick
when they were 22.

Carrick was on loan from W:Ham
at Swindon and Birmingham
at that age.
Came to Spurs at 23.

Modric too was 23 when he came to Spurs
and had been on loan from Dynamo Zagreb
before that.

Neither were at their peak
for another couple of years.
and both received early doubts
about their quality.

I like the boy OOOO.

It was immediately obvious that Carrick and Modric were very special players when they came to Spurs. Carrick particularly, I was blown away by his passing ability, honestly, it was on another planet compared to Winks at a similar age and so too was Modric. They always looked forwards.

When we signed Modric, he had already put in a stunning performance against England at Wembley, I remember watching the video repeatedly, and you could see how class Modric was.

I just don't see it in Winks at all regardless of his age. People really are stretching it putting Winks into the conversation with these players.

 

[JimmyG2]

Carrick was 18/19 when he was out on loan to Swindon and Birmingham.

Sorry my bad.
He came to us from W.Ham
Misread Wiki.

Remember the 'too small for the Premiership'
with regard to Modric
and that persisted
for a couple of seasons.

My general point stands though.
he is a precocious talent
held up by injury.

Carrick has always been undervalued
hence only 34 appearances for England
over 14 years.

Modric is now the Worlds Numero Uno.
If Winks gets even close to those two
he will have fulfilled
all my hopes for him.

 

[glospur]

As our midfield play maker, did he actually pass the ball forward once yesterday. This is the area we must strengthen to move forwards. He isn't good enough for top 6 even with your rose tinted glasses on

Really? I find it staggering that he's not good enough for a top 6 team. Here I was thinking that he's made 17 appearances for the team that currently sits 2nd, but I must be wrong.

What an unambiguously garbage post.

 

[sparx100]

Too high expectations for Winks imo on this forum for perhaps skills he doesn't have in the locker.

He drops to take the ball from the centre backs, make himself available for quick returns, is able to retain the ball from a pressing opposition player and can make the ball move around quickly. He never hides and his brain for quick even unexciting passes means the opposition lose their shape which allows our more dynamic players to take advantage.

People wanting him to be the next Modric may be disappointed. People expecting him to be a tough tackling **** may be disappointed. What I can say is I like him. Tidy in possession, keeps the team ticking and he is really aware of where his team mates are at all times.

He is still young and learning his trade. I have to say I prefer him in our midfield to Dier who has a propensity to slow the game down and be too deep at times, but again he has different qualities (more defensive based) that are better than Winks.

Truth is we need different skill sets for different teams. Against Cardiff we didnt need a deep defensive midfielder but against a Liverpool or City we might need a deeper lying tackler.

 

[glospur]

He did ok yesterday, I watched him closely but I don't really see what he does which is unique or special or which couldn't be replicated with a better player. He's just a cookie cutter pass the ball sideways, there is no penetration from him, even in games yesterday where we completely dominated. He passes the ball and moves into space to receive it, fine. But is that really all we need from that position? I'd love someone to point out to me what other attributes he brings into CM that makes him so valuable?

His ball retention is generally very high, but that's because he always passes the ball 5 yards left to right. He isn't strong defensively, and he isn't strong offensively.

As I say, he never does anything in a game which makes me go AHA! So that is why he's in the side. Even compared to Sissoko, who genuinely had a few moments yesterday like that turn on the Cardiff player and then sprinted forward which directly led to one of our goals and really impacted our result.

There was a couple of times Winks lost the ball, running into blind alleys, once when he broke from our box and and ran into 3 Cardiff players instead of releasing the ball, and his lack of pace and upper body strength is alarming.

My priority if I was Poch would be to upgrade our CM but it would be Winks not Sissoko who got replaced (if we could only sign one player).

JFC where to start.

This post demonstrates why the problem is your ridiculous expectation and complete lack of understanding of the role he's playing, and not his performances.

"His ball retention is generally very high, but that's because he always passes the ball 5 yards left to right."

Well, first, that's just flat out wrong. He's shown on a number of occasions that he is more than capable of playing lofted balls over the top, or cross field switches to contribute to attacking (ie his ball to KWP the other day and the one to Trips against RM at Wembley last season come to mind). But always playing those "Hollywood" balls isn't the sign of a good player, and it's ridiculous that you think this is what he needs to do from his position, because it's just not, and thinking otherwise is generally the sign of a poor football judge.

He is supposed to play those short passes in different stages of the game and for different reasons. When we've had a period of attacking play, it's necessary for him to do that in order to retain possession while the players ahead of him regain their attacking shape and get back into position. Playing recklessly is the last thing you want in that situation because if we lose the ball we are not in a position to win it back, or to defend the counter.

Alternatively, when the opposition are deep and compact behind the ball, you'll often see Eriksen move a lot deeper and play short little combination passes with Winks, as by far the two best technical players in midfield, in order to pull the opposition out of shape and create the space between the lines for any of Dele, Son or Kane to drop into, or to give Sissoko space to burst forward. Again, it would be stupidly reckless to attempt the killer ball as regularly as you seem to want him to in this situation because there's no space for it, and we also have players further forward who are better equipped to do so. It would be a dreadful waste of possession if he was to be impatient and squander that possession because Primativ on SC doesn't understand what he's being asked to do.

He's also playing as the deepest midfielder. If he loses the ball there, the opposition are immediately running at out central defenders with our FBs high and wide and no cover in midfield. That was the problem against Wolves. We lost the ball due to sloppiness (especially uncharacteristically from Eriksen) and they had too much space. Imagine if this happened on the regular of complaints that Winks isn't penetrative enough? Another reason why is's important is because he's playing alongside a guy who, for all his improvement and physical strengths, doesn't count ball retention high in his list of footballing talents.

In fact, if anything, the fact that he is playing so sensibly and not in the manner in you wish is actually a sign of great maturity in one so young. Often the problem with youthful CMs and CBs too, to a lesser extent, is that they're too impatient and too naive and too impulsive and too callow by doing the stuff that looks good, and not the stuff of actual substance. The way he plays demonstrates an understanding of the game far beyond his years.

"As I say, he never does anything in a game which makes me go AHA! So that is why he's in the side"

And that there is exactly the problem, not Winks' ability.

 

[DJS]

I remember the days Carrick was under-appareciated on here too...

The more he plays the more he’ll gain confident / settle and show his full abilities.

Most players improve with age / have multiple seasons under their belt in top flight.