Harry Kane

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Id say there would be a lot of fans still in and around the stadium at that time too so there would be mayhem if it happened

That's nothing.

Wait until Kane waves goodbye from the back window of the City bus as it pulls out of the stadium.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Tifo Football did something on HK recently; that he consistently perfroms above expected goals. He is the key reason why we as a team perform above expected goals over a number of seasons. This is the hallmark of an elite scorer, but also partly shows that without those goals we would be bang average.

I think him and Son had carreid us last season; we had no other consistent goal scorers/assists providers. We were shocking (and is the main reason why I'm pessimistic about us without HK) against Brighton early Jan. I would never forget how Brighton out-played us the entire game.

Without Kane last season, we couldn't really play at all.

Just got to ask. If we'd be bang average without Kane in the team, why have some of our biggest results been achieved without him?

I'm absolutely not saying we're better without him. He's fucking world class. But the question is genuine.

Bang average doesn't turn around a 3 goal deficit in a Champions League Semifinal. We've literally proven we can win without him, and on more than just that 1 noted occasion. What's to say his exit & a couple of alternative, quality options bought in wouldn't be equally, if not even more capable of achieving something?

It's surprising what a team can achieve!

 

[ultimateloner]

De Bruyne would be the one on the assist side. And Fernandes but a ton of his goals are penalties.

yeah but to do both...i can't think of anyone else.

 

[paulbag]

That's nothing.

Wait until Kane waves goodbye from the back window of the City bus as it pulls out of the stadium.

Don't think he will be waving probably more likely to be licking it him and charlie

 

[Guernman]

The problem we have is that Kane is a better no.10 than Martinez and a much better no. 9 than Vlahovic all rolled into one. Useful when you can only field 11! His skill set is ridiculous which makes him irreplaceable

 

[punky]

Their top ITK, who is this guy - https://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/members/tolmies-hairdoo.8822/#recent-content

Hasn't posted since Sunday, but he's still very confident that it gets done a few days after we play City.

Cheers!

Have they got spies on our forum reporting back?

 

[ultimateloner]

Just got to ask. If we'd be bang average without Kane in the team, why have some of our biggest results been achieved without him?

I'm absolutely not saying we're better without him. He's fucking world class. But the question is genuine.

Bang average doesn't turn around a 3 goal deficit in a Champions League Semifinal. We've literally proven we can win without him, and on more than just that 1 noted occasion. What's to say his exit & a couple of alternative, quality options bought in wouldn't be equally, if not even more capable of achieving something?

It's surprising what a team can achieve!

Yep noted on the 3-goal deficit CL game. But we were also shocking during early Jan too when he was out.

Its probably fair to say that yes we can occasionally play well without him, but since these stat-things are usually over multiple games, his absence would be felt that way.

 

[sausage]

Just got to ask. If we'd be bang average without Kane in the team, why have some of our biggest results been achieved without him?

I'm absolutely not saying we're better without him. He's fucking world class. But the question is genuine.

Bang average doesn't turn around a 3 goal deficit in a Champions League Semifinal. We've literally proven we can win without him, and on more than just that 1 noted occasion. What's to say his exit & a couple of alternative, quality options bought in wouldn't be equally, if not even more capable of achieving something?

It's surprising what a team can achieve!

It's probably no coincidence that we were at our very best when we, arguable, had no one stand-out star in the squad. I think part of the downfall was when a certain level of equality was lost in the team.
(you could equate that to 'of course a team is better when there are several stars, rather than just 1 or two, but these were the same players. Eriksen and Dele especially went off a cliff, and Toby was ostracised for almost a whole season over whatever went on with Poch. Downhill from there in holistic performances)

 

[sausage]

Cheers!

Have they got spies on our forum reporting back?

Not spies - someone on here, I think:

Harry Kane

Yeah no prob you can watch it if you want. I just don't rate the so called "transfer expert". But the presenters are like muppets on speed. They’ve actually done really well for young lads.

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

 

[spurs mental]

yeah but to do both...i can't think of anyone else.

De Bruyne got a combined 33 in 19/20. Hazard, Salah and Suarez have all managed big numbers in that respect too.

 

[Trent Crimm]

 

[ultimateloner]

I'm not sure how you could disagree based on evidence, though.

Llorente came in - proven, proven striker. Llorente rarely, if ever, got a chance to play instead of Kane, and the team was by no means adapted to suit his style. Harry wanted to play every minute of every game, pretty much, and that meant that he couldn't get a run in the team - most of his appearances were token 10 mins or less at the end of matches, were you barely get a touch.

Yet... it was Llorente who contributed heavily towards our CL final appearance, and look at his stats:

View attachment 94118

Ignore those token appearances, but by all means absorb those wasted minutes - 13 goals and 6 assists. 2232/90 = 24.8, so in just under 25 games he had 19 goal contributions. Imagine how effective he'd have been if he was given a real chance.

For example:
View attachment 94128

17/18 in the Premier League, he played 223 minutes - over 16 games! That's an average of less than 14 minutes per appearance. In the CL, it was an average of 26 minutes per appearance.


Even Carlos Vinicius - pretty pointless loan, really. He played 303 mins in the league, in a pretty awful version of Spurs:
View attachment 94124

A goal contribution for every Europa appearance, despite averaging 55 mins per appearance.

Also, per his minutes, he had 13 goal contributions in 973/90 = 10.81, so just under 11 games.

View attachment 94122



The reliance on Kane is self inflicted, because we have no idea really if anyone could replace him, because the situation has been badly mismanaged by our coaches over this time. Son getting picked ahead of the likes of the guys above, and then people claiming Son "isn't a striker" - and that Vinicius/Llorente weren't good enough, but it's all a muddle.


All we know is that even these 'crap' replacements were putting out decent numbers with the scraps of games they were given. There's an obvious comeback of the flat-track-bully scenarios, where Vinicius played against Marine, and maybe Llorente against weak teams somewhere, but you'd also be able to apply that to Kane and it all becomes rather silly.

I can't argue with your numbers but it's hard for me to accept your reasoning - that it's our own fault that we didn't play other forwards in Kane's place.
Whenever I watched Vinicius I'm unconvinced that he would make it in PL, let alone start for a top-6 side.
I remember less of Llorent..too long ago. But from impressions, he didn't convince either. I can't remember ever thinking 'wow this guy is played so well why dont we start him'.

 

[ultimateloner]

De Bruyne got a combined 33 in 19/20. Hazard, Salah and Suarez have all managed big numbers in that respect too.

I think our original discussion was about 'Kane carrying team'.
Doesn't the above suggests that Kane is on par with top-notch players, but he is doing it at a worse team. Hence 'carrying'? Like making us Europe-level when many players are not really up to that standard (especially last season).

 

[spurs mental]

I think our original discussion was about 'Kane carrying team'.
Doesn't the above suggests that Kane is on par with top-notch players, but he is doing it at a worse team. Hence 'carrying'? Like making us Europe-level when many players are not really up to that standard (especially last season).

The original discussion I was having was actually to do with Kane carrying us v what Bale did.

And I still don't think Kane has carried us to that level. Kane is elite, and of course he's on par with many top players, but the teams have been built around him to get the best out of him.

Your comment also does a massive injustice to players like Jan, Toby, Walker, Rose, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele and Son. Last season was different, a lot of underperforming players but still doesn't do Son justice, or even Lloris who had a good season last season.

 

[punky]

Not spies - someone on here, I think:

Harry Kane

Yeah no prob you can watch it if you want. I just don't rate the so called "transfer expert". But the presenters are like muppets on speed. They’ve actually done really well for young lads.

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

Just had a quick look - what a fucking cesspool. They seem to like attacking themselves as much as attacking us.

 

[Leachie]

Fun fact, apropos of nothing... I used to go to school with Carly Simon's daughter!

So what? I once smoked weed with Sam Allardyce’s daughter. Take that!

PS: yes she looked just like him.

 

[Aphex]

Just had a quick look - what a fucking cesspool. They seem to like attacking themselves as much as us.

Really is a dump but RAWK is the worst by a distance.

 

[sausage]

I can't argue with your numbers but it's hard for me to accept your reasoning - that it's our own fault that we didn't play other forwards in Kane's place.
Whenever I watched Vinicius I'm unconvinced that he would make it in PL, let alone start for a top-6 side.
I remember less of Llorent..too long ago. But from impressions, he didn't convince either. I can't remember ever thinking 'wow this guy is played so well why dont we start him'.

Let's remember that Kane wouldn't have been Kane unless he was given a good run in the team. It wasn't until Sherwood gave him a run of games in the later stages of 13/14 that he really started to come good. Before then, he'd be judged in a similar way.

I'm not wanting to suggest any equivalency between 26 year old Vinicius and about-to-turn-21-years-old Kane, but merely that there is basically a very small list of 'good' forwards in the history of professional football who could play 20 mins every fortnight or so and actually look good.

I don't think I've seen us give a proper forward a (and let's be realistic about the meaning of this) decent chance of competing or playing with Kane in that position. Ever. I'm struggling to even think of a time when an unfit/rusty Kane was subbed off so a 'proven in that position' Son could move central.

Now there's a reason for that, as he's our talisman and we've clearly been keeping him sweet, but it's anything but certain that someone else could replace him and do a job. For a start, one that (ignoring the benefits/reasons) isn't wandering out of position (technically) every 5 mins.

 

[scottej5]

Following the most informative (yet again) post from @Trix (number 39193 on page 1960) regarding the decision making process and individual involvement for the future of Harry Kane I am learning more and more about Mr. Daniel Levy and how he operates. It is fairly obvious to me now that whilst I have a relatively good knowledge of Mr Paratici and his modus operandi my views and opinions of our Chairman are based on a much more restricted amount of data and experience than those enjoyed by both the ITK section and forum members.

It's a lesson well learned. It takes nothing to post one's outlook on a subject and declare your views as being factual (as far as you are aware) but it takes a little bit more to admit you were perhaps wrong and retract that opinion.
I shall cut myself a large slice of humble pie and when it comes to the subject of Daniel Levy take an observer's role in the future.

COYS !!

Give yourself a break. From what I have pieced together, the Kane situation is a one-off situation where Levy is taking full responsibility of negotiations or lack thereof in this instance. All other negotiations, both incoming and outgoing will be under the remit of Paratici imo. I would hope this was clearly articulated by Levy before Paratici signed on.

As others have intimated, I do enjoy reading your posts. Keep it up! COYS

 

[spursfan77]

Just had a quick look - what a fucking cesspool. They seem to like attacking themselves as much as attacking us.

They are absolute pricks. They’ve basically become Man U fans from the 90s