Goals From Midfield

[mil1lion]

A lot is made about the lack of signing a striker. All we have done really is replace Soldado (who can't lead the line on his own anyway) with a couple of attacking midfielders instead of a centre forward. The key for us this season is to distribute the goals a lot better than last season. It will be difficult for Kane to reproduce his goal tally from last season but he shouldn't need to. The only reason he had to score so many goals was because Adebayor and Soldado scored very few goals each (7 between them in all competitions) so it rested on Kane.

Last season only Kane, Eriksen and Chadli got into double figures. We have to improve on this. When you look at the number of attacking midfielders we have they should be chipping in with a lot more goals this season. I appreciate they will not all get into double figures but between Dembele, Paulinho, Lamela and Townsend they should have scored plenty more between them (scoring 13 between them last season). That's why we've signed N'jie and Son to add more fire power, add to that Dele Alli in place of Paulinho (who scored only 2 goals last season) and I think all in all we're in better shape in attack.

Add to that the midfield duo of Mason and Bentaleb, again we should expect them to chip in a bit more than the 3 goals they got last season. The possibility of keeping Pritchard as well can only help. I was really encouraged by the number of chances we created against Everton, we just need to work on our finishing. The good thing is that we have shown we'll create chances. As long as the attacking midfielders are willing to get into the box as we've seen Mason and Dele Alli do for example so far I'm sure the goals will come.

Not to mention we often have someone break through and surprise us so lets wait and see what this team can do.

 

[degoose]

Once again another thread with incorrect details. Son and Njie are strikers and wide forwards. I'm going to keep saying this in every thread until people get this , they are not attacking mids or wingers. Njie constantly played up top with lacazette, Son played as a wide forward for leverkusen and also behind the striker and for South Korea he plays as a striker.

What's wrong with people.

 

[mil1lion]

Once again another thread with incorrect details. Son and Njie are strikers and wide forwards. I'm going to keep saying this in every thread until people get this , they are not attacking mids or wingers. Njie constantly played up top with lacazette, Son played as a wide forward for leverkusen and also behind the striker and for South Korea he plays as a striker.

What's wrong with people.

OK calm down buddy, how about on topic of the thread and the lack of goals from midfield? Whether you want to class the supporting players as forwards they will most likely play as part of the 3 in the 4-2-3-1 formation.

 

[robhumphreys]

Agree that they will be part of the 3 supporting players and are unlikely to lead the attack instead of Kane. Hopefully one of them can get a similar number of goals as Chadli.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

In certain games, we don't need somebody to "lead the attack" or "hold the line" or "play upfront". We need players do bring down the opponents line, break their ranks, bring them out of balance. That can be done with pace and smart passes, especially from deeper positions. Lamela, Eriksen, Alli, Carroll, Pritchard can provide the passes. Chadli, Son & Gee can provide the runs. In that specific context, if utilised to perfection, an out-of-form Kane is not decisive.

 

[idontgetit]

We'd score a fuck ton of goals if we paired up Mason and Alli in central midfied and played a DM behind them (Dier/Bentaleb) to screen the back four. They both make excellent runs from deep, work hard and on top of that will still be extremely creative for the other forwards. With three in the middle the wide men can also push higher and wider up the pitch where they can try to play behind the oppo back four rather than running down blind alleys in front of it. Having two players making runs from central midfield is also a lot less predictable for the oppo defence than it is for them just having to mark a static no.10

 

[Legacy]

I don't understand Ryan Mason. He was a goal scoring machine in the youth teams. Yet, for the first team, he looks like Steffen Freund whenever he attempts a shot on goal.

 

[dk-yid]

I don't understand Ryan Mason. He was a goal scoring machine in the youth teams. Yet, for the first team, he looks like Steffen Freund whenever he attempts a shot on goal.

He has always had the knack and will come good once he gets the first few. He gets in to the right positions.

 

[talkshowhost86]

We'd score a fuck ton of goals if we paired up Mason and Alli in central midfied and played a DM behind them (Dier/Bentaleb) to screen the back four. They both make excellent runs from deep, work hard and on top of that will still be extremely creative for the other forwards. With three in the middle the wide men can also push higher and wider up the pitch where they can try to play behind the oppo back four rather than running down blind alleys in front of it. Having two players making runs from central midfield is also a lot less predictable for the oppo defence than it is for them just having to mark a static no.10

Yeah I think that with the 4-2-3-1 you can't really get much in the way of a goalscoring midfielder, because the 2 have to be deeper due to there already being 4 attacking players in front of them.

It's why I often wonder about what we should do with Eriksen. I don't really see him as a midfielder, even in a 4-3-3, and in any case his goals aren't a result of arriving late into the box.

So if we did go to a 4-3-3 would that mean he'd be put as one of the front 3, or would he be dropped?

As for Bentaleb I actually think he's got goals in him, and given a chance to get forward we would see that.

We could go with a front 6 of:

Dier

Bentaleb Alli/Mason

Son Kane Eriksen
​

I think that would work really well, but unfortunately I've seen nothing from Poch to suggest that's even remotely in his plans.

 

[Donki]

We'd score a fuck ton of goals if we paired up Mason and Alli in central midfied and played a DM behind them (Dier/Bentaleb) to screen the back four. They both make excellent runs from deep, work hard and on top of that will still be extremely creative for the other forwards. With three in the middle the wide men can also push higher and wider up the pitch where they can try to play behind the oppo back four rather than running down blind alleys in front of it. Having two players making runs from central midfield is also a lot less predictable for the oppo defence than it is for them just having to mark a static no.10

Bascially we need to go 4-3-3? I would tend to agree, the signing of N'Jie and Son would also suggest this has to be at least tried.

 

[Donki]

Yeah I think that with the 4-2-3-1 you can't really get much in the way of a goalscoring midfielder, because the 2 have to be deeper due to there already being 4 attacking players in front of them.

It's why I often wonder about what we should do with Eriksen. I don't really see him as a midfielder, even in a 4-3-3, and in any case his goals aren't a result of arriving late into the box.

So if we did go to a 4-3-3 would that mean he'd be put as one of the front 3, or would he be dropped?

As for Bentaleb I actually think he's got goals in him, and given a chance to get forward we would see that.

We could go with a front 6 of:

Dier

Bentaleb Alli/Mason

Son Kane Eriksen
​

I think that would work really well, but unfortunately I've seen nothing from Poch to suggest that's even remotely in his plans.

I think Eriksen can fit into a 4-3-3 where we are hoping to dominate the play and don't really need a DM, or think we should have the better play in midfield, ie have Mason and Bentalb with Eriksen in front. I am not a big fan of "formations" but they are a good guide on how we set up, a midfield 3 with Eriksen advanced could work a long as he remmebers to get his foot in to retain the ball.

 

[idontgetit]

Yeah I think that with the 4-2-3-1 you can't really get much in the way of a goalscoring midfielder, because the 2 have to be deeper due to there already being 4 attacking players in front of them.

It's why I often wonder about what we should do with Eriksen. I don't really see him as a midfielder, even in a 4-3-3, and in any case his goals aren't a result of arriving late into the box.

So if we did go to a 4-3-3 would that mean he'd be put as one of the front 3, or would he be dropped?

As for Bentaleb I actually think he's got goals in him, and given a chance to get forward we would see that.

We could go with a front 6 of:

Dier

Bentaleb Alli/Mason

Son Kane Eriksen
​

I think that would work really well, but unfortunately I've seen nothing from Poch to suggest that's even remotely in his plans.

Yeah exactly like that and N'jie being used as an impact sub while he gets used to the prem. I'd be happy with Eriksen central as well to be honest although only against certain teams. Bentaleb I just don't see as an AM, to me he should be the player to sweep up at the back and dictate play from deep

 

[talkshowhost86]

Yeah exactly like that and N'jie being used as an impact sub while he gets used to the prem. I'd be happy with Eriksen central as well to be honest although only against certain teams. Bentaleb I just don't see as an AM, to me he should be the player to sweep up at the back and dictate play from deep

Yeah Bentaleb is an interesting one. I don't think we've seen the best of him because he's had to play in a 2 with Mason who is, god love him, a bit of a headless chicken at times.

When I've seen Bentaleb for Algeria (which admittedly is only a few times) he seems to get forwards a lot more and looks very dangerous. I also thought that in the odd game he was given licence to get forwards last season he looked dangerous.

But either way, if you play him with Dier plus Mason or Alli (or Pritchard for that matter), then you aren't asking him to be an attacking midfielder.

Dier would be the DM, Mason/Alli/Pritchard would get forward as much as possible, and Bentaleb would provide the link, with the ability to get forwards if needed. I think it looks very balanced that way.

All sort of depends on whether Dier can play well in that role again though.

 

[Larryjanta]

Bascially we need to go 4-3-3? I woudl tend to agree, the signing of N'Jie and Son would also suggest this has to be at least tried.

I think it's more of a 4-4-2 Diamond (I love posting this and feel that, if I post it enough, it will come true). Really, there is not much difference between a 4-4-2 diamond and a 4-3-3, one midfielder sits and two central midfielders push forward, move to the flanks.

Either way, I see us playing Mason, Bentaleb, Dembele, Alli and perhaps even Eriksen and Son operating as the two CMs ahead of Dier. We then have Eriksen, Kane, Chadli, Son, Lamela, Townsend, N'Jie, Carroll, Pritchard for the three attacking positions (either a 10 and two strikers or a striker and two wide forwards.

Either way, I think we have a lot of goals in our side

 

[Locotoro]

Bascially we need to go 4-3-3? I would tend to agree, the signing of N'Jie and Son would also suggest this has to be at least tried.

if you look at the formation for the last 3 games we've actually been playing 4-3-1-2 (4-3-2-1 with Chadli moving up and down). You can see it in the players heat maps with Dembele operating in a RCM position and Chadli moving between CF and AM more freely.

Also if you look at the players we bought they are all players who can fit this system and it also covers over our defensive frailties by allowing Dier to be a dedicated DM with two other CMs beside him.

Its a solid formation and we wont concede like last year, but it is even more reliant on the full backs getting forward.

 

[Syn_13]

I don't understand Ryan Mason. He was a goal scoring machine in the youth teams. Yet, for the first team, he looks like Steffen Freund whenever he attempts a shot on goal.

He's playing deeper and gets less chances. Against Everton he was given the chance to play in the old AM role he used to do and immediately got in amongst the chances. His finishing is probably because he's a bit rusty. It's good that he's making those runs and hopefully he'll convert some of those chances.

 

[mil1lion]

if you look at the formation for the last 3 games we've actually been playing 4-3-1-2 (4-3-2-1 with Chadli moving up and down). You can see it in the players heat maps with Dembele operating in a RCM position and Chadli moving between CF and AM more freely.

Also if you look at the players we bought they are all players who can fit this system and it also covers over our defensive frailties by allowing Dier to be a dedicated DM with two other CMs beside him.

Its a solid formation and we wont concede like last year, but it is even more reliant on the full backs getting forward.

This is also another important factor. Rose gave us that on a number of occassions last season and it may well have been a key reason as to why Chadli was able to roam and get into goalscoring positions. The opposite is true on the right side and it's something I'm hoping Trippier will give us. That could give the right sided player space to roam as well and in turn get into more goalscoring positions.

Kane is going to be occupied more this season and teams will double up on him. This makes it all the more important that we have attacking players who can exploit the space left. I mentioned in another thread that I can see the idea of having Dier in defensive midfield to split the 2 centre backs and allow the fullbacks to push on. When pushed on it turns into a 3 at the back with the fullbacks providing the width and the wide attackers getting closer to Kane.

 

[talkshowhost86]

This is also another important factor. Rose gave us that on a number of occassions last season and it may well have been a key reason as to why Chadli was able to roam and get into goalscoring positions. The opposite is true on the right side and it's something I'm hoping Trippier will give us. That could give the right sided player space to roam as well and in turn get into more goalscoring positions.

Kane is going to be occupied more this season and teams will double up on him. This makes it all the more important that we have attacking players who can exploit the space left. I mentioned in another thread that I can see the idea of having Dier in defensive midfield to split the 2 centre backs and allow the fullbacks to push on. When pushed on it turns into a 3 at the back with the fullbacks providing the width and the wide attackers getting closer to Kane.

Ahhhhh yes...the space invaders formation...

Lloris

Alderweireld ----- Vertonghen

Trippier---------------Dier---------------Rose

Bentaleb--------------Alli

Son--------------------Kane--------------Eriksen​

 

[GetSpurredOn]

I was away, so couldn't see the Everton game, but agree, after trying to stay in touch via BBC, their heat map showed Dier playing at the base of a central midfield 3, with Bentaleb and (initially) Dembele either side of him. Mason and Chadli were playing higher up he pitch in support of Kane. Much more 433 or 4321 than the usually assumed 4231. I think we'll be better suited to that this year. Mason and Chadli played fairly narrow, with Rose and Walker tasked with providing the width from deeper. This is wher Dier and the centre backs come in, Eric drops a bit deeper between the two, with Aldrweireld or Vertonghen pushing a bit wider to cover the gap where the fullback should be, and since we have a natural balance of left and right footed centre backs, both capable of playing at fullback also, they won't be uncomfortable.

Moving forwards, I think this could work well for us. We are quite well stacked for CM players, despite the clamour for a new starter on deadline day. Perhaps those we have are not fully rounded enough for a CM2, hence the desire for a new midfielder, but as a CM3???
Bentaleb, Alli, Mason and Carroll would all be ideally suited to the wider CM roles of the 3, with Dier and Bentaleb capable of playing in the deeper role. Also, in a 3, there'd be less pressure on the likes of Winks if he was bought in, equally Velkjovic at DM.
Then higher up, playing Kane, with the likes of Chadli, Son and Njie flanking him. An alternative would be to field Eriksen or Pritchard in that advanced 3, but with more license to roam or drop off a bit and pull the strings.

Edit - just seen I've been beaten to this in the post above.

 

[yido_number1]

He's playing deeper and gets less chances. Against Everton he was given the chance to play in the old AM role he used to do and immediately got in amongst the chances. His finishing is probably because he's a bit rusty. It's good that he's making those runs and hopefully he'll convert some of those chances.

We looked a lot more solid with Mason, Bentaleb and Dier on the pitch. Bentaleb looks really rusty though! The formation was a lot more like a 4-3-3 with Mason putting in a lot of work tracking back. I think if we played that game again with Son on the right instead of Dembele we would of won.