Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[DanielJohnCosta]

is this levy and Conte's first discussion about money? no, so who's at fault, Conte for not accepting the club's position or Levy for somehow lying to Conte and offering him more than he is now willing to give him?

 

[the lad]

is this levy and Conte's first discussion about money? no, so who's at fault, Conte for not accepting the club's position or Levy for somehow lying to Conte and offering him more than he is now willing to give him?

Levy the looser for employing Conte the serial winner.

 

[easley91]

I mean, the money probably was a factor.

I think my issue is appointing “winners” isn’t a strategy. You can’t just hope that their winningness rubs off on us; that’s what United tried with LVG and Mourinho.

Mourinho won trophies with United. Isn't he the only one to do so post Ferguson?

 

[TPdYID]

Defo a big element of luck.

Juve were desperate for cash to bring in Vlahovic that window and we were able to cut a very good deal thanks to that and Paratici's connections. If they weren't desperate for money no way would we have got that deal done.

So the DoF, who’s job it is to build a network of agents, scouts and connections gets “lucky” when a good deal is struck due to a previous connection built?

Doesn’t much sound like “luck”, instead I’d argue it sounds like a strong network.

“Luck” is rolling a double 6.

 

[Trix]

is this levy and Conte's first discussion about money? no, so who's at fault, Conte for not accepting the club's position or Levy for somehow lying to Conte and offering him more than he is now willing to give him?

Again it's not about the numbers but how they want the money to be spent. Having said that there does appear to be some movement in a positive direction yesterday, so it's fingers crossed time.

 

[ernest_lowrider]

Again it's not about the numbers but how they want the money to be spent. Having said that there does appear to be some movement in a positive direction yesterday, so it's fingers crossed time.

Unbelieveable, the same guy who's work brought us to the point we're *almost* a serious big club is the same guy who's an obstacle to actually becoming one.

 

[Japhet]

Udogie, Kulusevski, Romero, Sessegnon, Spence, Sarr, Gill, Bentancur, Bissouma, Skipp,

There's also the potential of the likes of Scarlett and Lankshear coming through.

That's a healthy nucleus of players under 25 with some very much for the future.

I don't think it's silly to give Conte 3 or 4 more older established players, and then focus on winning in the next two years with Conte. Then when it's time to change coach, I don't think it'd be too hard to shift them as;

1. We win something and their reputation stays high enough to sell for a good few.

2. They can be eased out over a couple of windows, even if we fail to win under Conte.

Having said that, we've signed plenty of good players at a young age and a good few, so FP will certainly be able to find more in this range.

So the whole idea of not wanting to back Conte cause you don't want to be left with players you can't get rid of seems really odd to me.

Agree, and Conte has apparently already given the green light to succession planning for Perisic by bringing in Udogie.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

So the DoF, who’s job it is to build a network of agents, scouts and connections gets “lucky” when a good deal is struck due to a previous connection built?

Doesn’t much sound like “luck”, instead I’d argue it sounds like a strong network.

“Luck” is rolling a double 6.

Still a element of luck the players work out though. What’s the argument here? That we’re going to keep on signing players for relatively low fees that end up looking great and excellent value for money from now on, because we’ve got Paratici and the pennies finally dropped? We’ve been trying to do that for 20 years with ENIC. If it was that easy everyone would be doing it and we’d have been a lot more successful at it by now.

We need to stop thinking we’re so much smarter than everyone else. The club needs to start making big signings coupled with clever under the radar signings. They need to show the intent as much as anything to the manager/s, players and fans otherwise it’s never going to happen for us. There’s a massive lack of belief at the club that’s emanated from the top down imo.

 

[Trix]

Unbelieveable, the same guy who's work brought us to the point we're *almost* a serious big club is the same guy who's an obstacle to actually becoming one.

Thing is it's not intentional, and he 100% cares to his core about the club. I think it's just ingrained in him from the early days when he was trying to model the club in the way Lyon were run. That was probably the best way at the time financially, but he's brought us so far with the infrastructure that it no longer is and it's now counter productive.

 

[dirtyh]

Again it's not about the numbers but how they want the money to be spent. Having said that there does appear to be some movement in a positive direction yesterday, so it's fingers crossed time.

trix, can you just go and slap him on his bald head until he sees sense? thanks from all at SC.

 

[gertrude stein]

Thing is it's not intentional, and he 100% cares to his core about the club. I think it's just ingrained in him from the early days when he was trying to model the club in the way Lyon were run. That was probably the best way at the time financially, but he's brought us so far with the infrastructure that it no longer is and it's now counter productive.

This is very illuminating. I had never thought of the Aulus connection before, but it does seem like an obvious comparison now you say it.
All the more ironic considering their disputes going back to Lloris.
For me it feels like he's a dedicated custodian who feels his work is still not quite complete. Let's hope he can see that it might never be with this current mindset

 

[Sid Tottenham]

If I was Conte and I was dealing with Levy I'd sign a rolling contract like Wenger used to do at Arsenal or a short term deal, I think in the end that turned out counterproductive though because if you're not willing to commit for I dunno let's say 5 years then you can't really expect the players too, and they ended up losing big players for free or relatively cheaply.
But you can't argue with the early results that they had with him.
The reason I'd only commit for a short period is that you've always got the upper hand on Levy it shouldn't be like it but then Levy as Trix says needs to adjust to the clubs new reality.
Edit I'd add this would only work if you're successful and in demand from bigger clubs, Levy would have little choice but to back Conte and keep him happy.

 

[TPdYID]

We need to stop thinking we’re so much smarter than everyone else. The club needs to start making big signings coupled with clever under the radar signings. They need to show the intent as much as anything to the manager/s, players and fans otherwise it’s never going to happen for us. There’s a massive lack of belief at the club that’s emanated from the top down imo.

“Big signings” - this sums up the problem perfectly. We don’t need “big signings”. We need the “right signings”.

Bigger isn’t always better. A far more diligent scouting/recruitment process would yield a better turn over of player when being compared to “transfer fee”.

 

[eViL]

I'd put money on Conte also being unhappy with the medical department and wanting changes in that area also.

Levy needs to suck it up and let Antonioooo work his magic.

 

[eViL]

Thing is it's not intentional, and he 100% cares to his core about the club. I think it's just ingrained in him from the early days when he was trying to model the club in the way Lyon were run. That was probably the best way at the time financially, but he's brought us so far with the infrastructure that it no longer is and it's now counter productive.

Aulas has the advantage of running a club from the Farmer's League.

Premier League teams can't get the same bargains in regards to fees or wages anymore. That's our reality. Let's hope Daniel sees it.

 

[robin09]

I think this is an interesting perspective, I'd certainly agree that he's done an excellent job for Joe Lewis and Enic, I'm not sure he's done an excellent job for the fans or the club. I also find it strange that you can't imagine anyone doing better outside of a billionaire - has he really earned that level of worship? It's not as though he's the only chairman who could have built a new stadium and training ground for one of the richest clubs in Europe is it? (Even if we leave out his attempts to move the club to the Olympic Stadium site.)

Up to about 2018 I think he did a good job, but not without caveats - his trophy haul is equal to Sugar and he's presided over a much stronger team. For me, from 2018 I think he stopped doing a good job and is now doing a bad one. The Summer of Nuno, after the Jose debacle, should really have been the end of the line. The appointment of Conte should be the gift shop of the last chance saloon.

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He may not be the only one who could do it for us. But show me a similar example of a club who have managed to go from Intertoto hopefuls to expected top 4 finishers, while creating among the best training ground and stadium facilities in the world, and not bankrupting the club.

We've had this conversation millions of times, and I'm sure a few thousand more before Levy is replaced, but I'm of the opinion that 'better the devil you know/the grass isn't always greener'.

If there were many examples of chairman/owners in the Prem who had had a similar track record, then fine, it would seem easy to replace him and ENIC with someone that would satisfy us. But I don't see that outside of the oligarchs. So I wouldn't be surprised if when we DO get a new owner, the ENIC out brigade will be just as unhappy.

 

[Timberwolf]

He may not be the only one who could do it for us. But show me a similar example of a club who have managed to go from Intertoto hopefuls to expected top 4 finishers, while creating among the best training ground and stadium facilities in the world, and not bankrupting the club.

We've had this conversation millions of times, and I'm sure a few thousand more before Levy is replaced, but I'm of the opinion that 'better the devil you know/the grass isn't always greener'.

If there were many examples of chairman/owners in the Prem who had had a similar track record, then fine, it would seem easy to replace him and ENIC with someone that would satisfy us. But I don't see that outside of the oligarchs. So I wouldn't be surprised if when we DO get a new owner, the ENIC out brigade will be just as unhappy.

Yeah I do think there are some fans who seem unable to separate the "business Levy" from the "football Levy" and act like he's the worst chairman in football history for some of his football decisions.

"Business Levy" is about as good as it gets, chairman-wise. What he's done for the club is remarkable.

"Football Levy" is...all over the place. He's made a huge mish-mash of good, bad, lucky and absolutely laughable decisions that, overall, have taken us up the league but have also cost us good managers, players and held us back at key moments. I'd still say he's done better than a lot of other chairmen - usually due to good appointments beneath him who made good footballing decisions for him - but I can certainly understand the frustration from fans and I think it's time he steps away.

Given our current position, with the stadium and training ground secured and our long term finances in a good place, I don't see why Levy needs to have any football input at all tbh. He should negotiate a budget and then just leave it to Paratici and Conte to get on with it. And when it comes to picking a new manager, he should only have a limited say as a board member, rather that being the king maker. He needs to step away from that side now - he's had his time.

 

[bubble07]

“Big signings” - this sums up the problem perfectly. We don’t need “big signings”. We need the “right signings”.

Bigger isn’t always better. A far more diligent scouting/recruitment process would yield a better turn over of player when being compared to “transfer fee”.

I wish my misses shared your thought ?

 

[Legacy]

Mourinho won trophies with United. Isn't he the only one to do so post Ferguson?

van Gaal also won the FA Cup with United. RuskyM's point kind of fell down by referencing United appointing two winners who both went on to win trophies at United.

 

[britsci]

Levy won't spend until Conte signs; Conte won't sign until he sees what Levy is willing to spend. Impasse.