Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[MightySpurs]

I said it earlier in the match thread, but the main thing that needs to change at the moment is that we need to get back to the 5-4-1 disciplined behind the ball defensive structure we've seen for the majority of Conte's time. This has what has gone wrong recently first and foremost. Before the recess and again today we have started seeing alien stuff such as us getting caught on counter/transition, left short at the back man v man or overloaded, massive gaps between the lines in open play, etc. The wide forwards are not dropping back in, the centre mid duo is being broken into pieces, the wingbacks and centre backs partnership is out of kilter. It's all off.

Our defensive setup is/was crucial because a) Conte tactics offer little in terms of pressing, and if we go by the premise of you do everything as one then if you're not going to push up, then all that is left is that you................. and then b) as we saw for many many months, with weight in numbers you can protect and help the supposedly weaker individuals and in fact get something out of them.

As a whole team we're not offering enough from the defensive aspect currently, we're open, we're easy to play against, and the goals conceded are reflecting this. You can put whoever you want in the XI - Hakimi on the right flank, Gvardiol at the back, Modric in the middle, fucking Messi or Mbappe up top if you want - any team that doesn't have that discipline/organisation and want to put that in that collective effort when they don't have the ball is going to struggle.

Yeah better individuals would be nice, absolutely no question. But currently basic and eminently meetable and achievable standards have been lost. They were after all there for the first ten or eleven months of Conte's reign, the last couple of months though they've disappeared. This more than anything is what needs to be rediscovered.

So you basically want us to play 5-4-1, like prime Stoke

 

[carpediem991]

But we know that the squad itself has been horribly mismanaged over the past 4-5 years. Before Paratici, our two biggest signings have been our two biggest flops. Think about that for a second, when you think about replacing Dembele and Eriksen. We never adequately replaced either Rose or Walker, who both left or fell off before Paratici. I could go on and on.

We haven’t replaced a bunch of the team that made us so incredible under Poch, and when we have the quality has been vastly inferior. This is literal common knowledge to us fans. Why we don’t think about these things, and then say Conte doesn’t need to be backed but must work with what he has is a joke.

You cannot turn a Honda into a Ferrari no matter how hard you try. It’s impossible.

Give Conte another CB that is atleast good enough to partner Romero, two wingbacks who aren’t complete dog shit and this team performs much, much better. That’s without any creativity or technicality that we need for the front 5 positions.

I really wish we could all see things as a whole and then make comments instead of the first thing that comes to mind. If you look at the bigger picture, things will get better with time. But we have to stick with a plan, and that plan is Conte.

Its not everything comparable and who knows how they go on but look at Newcastle and their development in the last year. And they don't spend stupid money that we couldn't afford (yet).
Still they look like they are on a way better course and building something with more confidence.

I refuse to think our squad is that terrible than some suggest. Davies and Dier showed last year they are capable, right now they start losing confidence in what they do...

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Its not everything comparable and who knows how they go on but look at Newcastle and their development in the last year. And they don't spend stupid money that we couldn't afford (yet).
Still they look like they are on a way better course and building something with more confidence.

And our lads performing like they did at the end of last season would smash the shit out of this Newcastle squad, no doubt in my mind.

Newcastle keeps getting brought up as some sort of yard stick, when their circumstances are completely unique to ours.

And yet, for all the praise being heaped on them in here, they are a mere 3 points ahead of us. Not 9-12 points that would actually matter like Arsenal, 3. 3 fucking points. One win for us and a loss for them and we are even stevens. All the while I see people saying we are playing “shit” football in comparison. They have no European football. They just had a 5 week break because almost all of their players weren’t called up for the WC. I could go on and on.

Fuck me. 3 points.

 

[allatsea]

Change his job more like, we have too much shit that needs flushed compared to the time this serial winner has to spare.

This "shit" as you call it have us 4th in the PL. Not so bad IMO for "shit".

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

This "shit" as you call it have us 4th in the PL. Not so bad IMO for "shit".

I think the point is if Conte can get us to 4th with all the dross mixed amongst a few great players, imagine we gave him 3-4 more great players. What then?

And it’s deeper than Conte needing these type of players, THE CLUB as a whole needs this level. Doesn’t matter who the manager is at the end of the day. We have vastly inferior quality overall than our rivals. And by rivals I mean the top 6, with Newcastle about to break into that group when their investments ramp up.

 

[wspur]

I think everyone is "questioning" the ownership of the club and the performance of the club on the footballing side. But in the past few years, we have been among the highest spenders, haven't sold our stars in Son and Kane, and employed a "World Class" manager. Of course, more is needed but it cannot happen in one summer, it will never be like that, saying we haven't spent is simply not true. If Conte can only succeed at Spurs with Chelsea-type money it's probably not the right choice. And having 2 average players in the squad shouldn't result in what we are seeing every week.

For reference, the net spend between 2020/21-2022/23 (doesn't include Kulu who is only on loan, add him and we are 4th)

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Our football has conceded more than Everton, Brighton, Palace and West Ham. It's conceded more than Man United and they were hammered 4-0 and 6-3. If this is true then it's a staggering failure of squad management.


What about Alves, van Dijk, Cucurella, Messi? All clubs can miss out on players was my point: good management is adapting rather than hoping for a hypothetical better future.

I don’t know if you’re being serious or by management you’re talking about ENIC, but the alternative to Kane was Harland, Dias maybe instead of Van Dijk. If our alternatives were equal or better than who we were initially going for then yeah but there always cheap punts. Other teams are starting from strength too

Take Romero, Bentancur, Kulu, Son and especially kane out of this squad and it’s mid table at best maybe even worse. We have some players who have room to improve but were miles off squad wise

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I think everyone is "questioning" the ownership of the club and the performance of the club on the footballing side. But in the past few years, we have been among the highest spenders, haven't sold our stars in Son and Kane, and employed a "World Class" manager. Of course, more is needed but it cannot happen in one summer, it will never be like that, saying we haven't spent is simply not true. If Conte can only succeed at Spurs with Chelsea-type money it's probably not the right choice. And having 2 average players in the squad shouldn't result in what we are seeing every week.

For reference, the net spend between 2020/21-2022/23 (doesn't include Kulu who is only on loan, add him and we are 4th)
View attachment 120406

The QUALITY of the recruitment before Paratici was frankly shocking in hindsight, and that’s the main issue we have.

Ndombele and Lo Celso alone, who both had “promise” account for around €120 million of that amount. Almost a third.

You can spend as much as you want but if you’re not spending on the right players it literally takes the club backwards. And it has.

 

[carpediem991]

And our lads performing like they did at the end of last season would smash the shit out of this Newcastle squad, no doubt in my mind.

Newcastle keeps getting brought up as some sort of yard stick, when their circumstances are completely unique to ours.

And yet, for all the praise being heaped on them in here, they are a mere 3 points ahead of us. Not 9-12 points that would actually matter like Arsenal, 3. 3 fucking points. One win for us and a loss for them and we are even stevens. All the while I see people saying we are playing “shit” football in comparison. They have no European football. They just had a 5 week break because almost all of their players weren’t called up for the WC. I could go on and on.

Fuck me. 3 points.

3 points, but our development should be far more advanced than theirs. Individually I'd pick most of our players especially in attack. And if you turn the perspective to look at the last ten games to see how the latest development is you see it is suddenly ten points difference.

Edit: And they manage it with Fabian Schär and Dan Burn in defense, who would be way below the required level here. But it can work if the system and mentality is right.

 

[carpediem991]

I don’t know if you’re being serious or by management you’re talking about ENIC, but the alternative to Kane was Harland, Dias maybe instead of Van Dijk. If our alternatives were equal or better than who we were initially going for then yeah but there always cheap punts. Other teams are starting from strength too

Take Romero, Bentancur, Kulu, Son and especially kane out of this squad and it’s mid table at best maybe even worse. We have some players who have room to improve but were miles off squad wise

Is there a squad, Man City aside, that wouldn't look like mid table if you take out their five top performing players?

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

The squad management is very frustrating,

This sound suspiciously like: “I want Conte to play Spence, because reasons!”

Conte has had to manage the squad around various injuries to: Kulusevski, Romero, Richarlison, Skipp, Doherty, Lucas.

Kane is the only player to start all 16 games. Dier and Perisic are the only others to play in all 16.

Bissouma has not yet fit into these tactics, but still has 7 starts in the league. Lenglet has 8 starts.

Who exactly should Conte be playing more?

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

3 points, but our development should be far more advanced than theirs. Individually I'd pick most of our players especially in attack. And if you turn the perspective to look at the last ten games to see how the latest development is you see it is suddenly ten points difference.

We’re talking about facts here, not conjecture. Regardless of the last 10 games, 3 points is still 3 points.

I hate to have to be so blunt about it, but we have no room for imagination here.

Football is a results based game that’s effected by many, many variables and often these things are overlooked because of emotion.

At the end of the day results are all that matters, and they are only 3 points ahead.

 

[djhotspur]

The squad may not be good enough, but we should still be seeing better than this absolute dross.

Every game is a struggle no matter who we are playing & that is unacceptable.

If Conte isn’t going to get backed, then he may as well walk, & we can see a team without 5 useless defenders, all on at the same time.

Yes we should but how many mistakes do we see constantly from the same offenders? We all sit there and get tricked into thinking we will be great but then so many of the same players mess up.
Everyone raves about arsenal and that Liverpool side etc but a big part of our problem is our two world class attackers cannot high press constantly so we cannot play that way. You can’t play an all action high press domination game we this team, so a coach has to change their tactics to suit and unfortunately that means a mid to low block.
Son this season is holding us back massively, he’s not scoring, he’s not linking play very well, he’s holding onto the ball for way too long when he should pass and isn’t scoring. So that’s one of our two world class players not performing.
We’ve had countless injuries this season that have hugely held us back and prevented us from rotating and again that game yesterday is a different story if Benta, Romero, Lloris all play so we’ve been screwed over by a corrupt World Cup.
I would love to know what people think arteta, Klopp, pep would all do differently with this squad because every bright idea we’ve had so far from this forum has gone completely wrong… like 3 5 2 with Benta hojberg and biss was the path to enlightenment apparently then look what happened at United.
Now apparently it’s to play 4 2 3 1 which is the new huge saving grace, yet it then would make us even worse defensively and mean our squad is even less suited.
Conte isn’t blameless but for some reason this forum decides to completely ignore everything everyone is saying and every manager has said about this squad and just decided it’s the managers fault every time, then the same players mess up rinse and repeat until we have nothing and are out of Europe.
People need to remember that for a couple of games this season we had 1 fit forward… yet it gets ignored and it’s the managers fault.
The simple fact of the matter is a lot of these players are just crap, dier it’s the main problem and it’s a brain fart of a defender it’s as simple as that.
We just need two more transfer windows and then let’s judge conte when he’s had the time and money and the squad he wants that outer managers have had!!!! Rather than getting rid of another bloody manager and expecting a different out come

 

[wspur]

This sound suspiciously like: “I want Conte to play Spence, because reasons!”

Conte has had to manage the squad around various injuries to: Kulusevski, Romero, Richarlison, Skipp, Doherty, Lucas.

Kane is the only player to start all 16 games. Dier and Perisic are the only others to play in all 16.

Bissouma has not yet fit into these tactics, but still has 7 starts in the league. Lenglet has 8 starts.

Who exactly should Conte be playing more?

I want Conte to give chances to inexperienced players. Look at Liverpool yesterday, at how Arsenal got Saka, Martinelli and their youngsters in the first team, etc. I don't see a way in for our academy players or even Sarr or Gil, that's a problem.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

And for everyone wanting a new manager to come in and play with a back 4 in a 433 or 4231, consider that Royal is probably the only defender we have suited to a back 4. We would still need to upgrade CBs, and even Romero is not as good a fit in a back 4. We don’t have anyone capable of playing at left FB. We would also have to invest in CMs and/or AMs.

That seems a much more expensive transition than finding players to fit Contes tactics…

 

[fecka]

Kulusevski has been quoted in Swedish media criticizing the team for being "too scared & cautious" at the start of games trying to play for a result instead of just relaxing and playing. When under 2-0 they "let go & play their best football" because they have nothing to lose.

The responsibility for this is shared among players and management, but it should be mainly up to Conte to address, no? It's a clear pattern that could be linked to a fear of making mistakes, which ironically likely leads to errors being made.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Is there a squad, Man City aside, that wouldn't look like mid table if you take out their five top performing players?

The gap to the rest is much bigger with our squad though

 

[Stamford]

I refuse to think our squad is that terrible than some suggest. Davies and Dier showed last year they are capable, right now they start losing confidence in what they do...

It is terrible though and since when is capable the barometer. Dier and Davies have shown that over years and multiple managers. Conte got them both playing above their level for six months and suddenly they are capable. We need to move on from these players and bring in actual quality. Dier never used to get near the starting XI and now he's the bloody leader of the defence, it is laughable at best and in reality a dereliction of duty by the club.

People are banging on about Arteta on all his positive points but they backed him not just with money but ousting their captain for little money and also loaning out Saliba for two years because he thought it was the best thing to do despite him clearly being quality. Conte doesn't play Spence for a few weeks and the intelligentsia on here and twitter think the manager should go.

At some point you have to fully back a manager, we didnt do it with Poch and he managed a CL final. We got Jose who has won everywhere. He told us to get rid of Dele but Levy knows better. Conte tells us every chance he gets he needs better players and time to make it right. Why don't we actually listen to someone who has won something recently when they tell us what we need because no one else at this club has experience winning.

 

[al_pacino]

Kulusevski has been quoted in Swedish media criticizing the team for being "too scared & cautious" at the start of games trying to play for a result instead of just relaxing and playing. When under 2-0 they "let go & play their best football" because they have nothing to lose.

The responsibility for this is shared among players and management, but it should be mainly up to Conte to address, no? It's a clear pattern that could be linked to a fear of making mistakes, which ironically likely leads to errors being made.

Nice to see the players recognise this as much as the people watching.

By far my biggest frustration watching Spurs at the moment is the fact that they clearly can play good attacking football, unfortunately it's for the last 30 minutes of games rather than getting a fast start. And added to that all the players look more comfortable when going forward, more positively also seems to lead to less mistakes.

 

[carpediem991]

It is terrible though and since when is capable the barometer. Dier and Davies have shown that over years and multiple managers. Conte got them both playing above their level for six months and suddenly they are capable. We need to move on from these players and bring in actual quality. Dier never used to get near the starting XI and now he's the bloody leader of the defence, it is laughable at best and in reality a dereliction of duty by the club.

People are banging on about Arteta on all his positive points but they backed him not just with money but ousting their captain for little money and also loaning out Saliba for two years because he thought it was the best thing to do despite him clearly being quality. Conte doesn't play Spence for a few weeks and the intelligentsia on here and twitter think the manager should go.

At some point you have to fully back a manager, we didnt do it with Posh and he managed a CL final. We got Jose who has won everywhere. He told us to get rid of Dele but Levy knows better. Conte tells us every chance he gets he needs better players and time to make it right. Why don't we actually listen to someone who has won something recently when they tell us what we need because no one else at this club has experience winning.

Thats also a thing: How should players like Davies and Dier, who have their limitations, get their best out of themselves when they are basically told by their own manager that they need to be replaced. Confidence is absolutely key. You can still replace them when time comes, but not only the manager needs backing but also the current players...