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Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,904
32,619
Whether you like it or not is a different matter, but in terms of the "tactics" per se I don't think there is a lot wrong with them. The problem at the moment is the fortunes of our attacking unit. At the end of last campaign it was clicking, they were in some form, it looked slick, efficient, and getting wins by convincing scorelines. At the moment it's not, so performances and results look a bit shakier.

I'm just seeing our normal defensive displays really. Very pragmatic, defending our third in a 5-4-1, safety in numbers, opponents with a lot of ball and betting that they won't break us down. We did this last year, defended for long spells, but it was just punctuated by better attacking moments, and goals, from us to distract and appease the fans. At the moment those aren't happening, so I can understand why people are a bit edgier and grumbling about matches.

But a lot of the matches I'm watching and thinking "we should have won that comprehensively". The Forest game we should have annihilated them, the Fulham game again loads of chances, last night Marseille's man for man highline (well, pre-sending off) was really unconvincing and on the verge of being breached on infinite occasions but we'd not get the pass right, or not release it at the right time, blah blah blah. Fantastic opportunities in the final third have been there, we've just started the season really wastefully and more often than not barbecued them.

Son is the most talked about, he's been rubbish in his touch, decision making, and though people will say "but he got us the sending off last night!" I'm actually a little concerned that the last few games he's largely stopped running, numerous times we've had scenarios where I'm expecting to see him dashing through and/or in behind for a pass and he's not. Kane has been just as bad in his general play, his goal stats mask it a bit but he looks a slow flat/heavy footed plodder mostly at the moment. Richarlison isn't the most refined footballer by any stretch, his touch and pass etc. will plenty let him down at a critical moment, but at least he runs channels and sticks his body in to shield the ball etc. and has a bit of scrap in him. And he is prepared to get himself in the box. The other two could take notes currently.....

Also think wingbacks are still a fairly weighty issue tbh, Perisic has done some good things so far, had plenty of classy intelligent touches that show why he's had the career he's had, but I think he's easing himself in to his surroundings. I was expecting him to be ultra aggressive in his play and his runs, positioning, and so on and to be found getting in the box at every opportunity. Hopefully this is to come, currently want to see more. Emerson I see lots of fans bemoaning other fans still trashing him - individually he's competent. Can defend. Reasonably assured with the ball at his feet. Good temperament. Ok, great. But as wingback, more often than not, nah. He doesn't stay high enough, he doesn't eat up the ground with his forward off the ball runs, he can't carry the ball, he can't beat a man, doesn't really develop a picture and make smart choices, and he can't really deliver consistent half-decent end product. Sounds harsh but no matter how well he ever does in some aspects, I'm always going to want a lot more from someone playing that role.

TL;DR - Obviously we know our game is heavily built around attacking structures and patterns of play, and efficiency in the final third. But until individuals start firing and we rediscover that attacking platform and ruthlessness comes back things will continue to look clunky. I don't think the tactics are not working, the conditions have been there for handsome victories, it's just not being applied well by out of form strikers (and still some weaknesses on the flanks).

Final thought - Against packed defences though we still definitely need tactical evolution. We managed to crowbar the door open last night, but continue to look really ill at ease taking the ball into congestion and playing in and around packed defences.



Epilogue: See there is some argument about deliberately starting slow and conserving energy and then stepping on the gas later on in games when it's needed and the opposition have punched themselves out. Not sure I'm convinced by that, but if it is correct it is a tough ask and no wonder the team might be struggling to put that into practice. We play largely without the ball. If you have it then you can have control of the tempo of proceedings and how much risk you take with your play and it's a lot easier to kill the game a bit. Without it, it is hard to manage certain aspects and not exactly easy to say "ok we'll sit back and rest just enough, but not too much". Quite tough to get that right and not get yourself in bother.
 

Rout-Ledge

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
9,691
21,897
I’m not concerned by our tactical approach. It’s nothing like the way we played under Jose, which was genuinely unsustainable. Under Jose it always felt like his approach had a ceiling, and we hit it. Under Conte it feels like we’re nowhere near it. We saw hints of it towards the end of last season.

One of the main encouraging factors with our approach under Conte is that when we go a goal up we do go for the kill, and often get that buffer goal/goals. Already this season we’ve done that, against Southampton, Forest, Fulham and Marseille.

I’m excited for the season ahead.
 

montylynch

Fandabeedozee
Jun 23, 2005
5,828
4,004
Can't really see what the problems are that some on here are moaning about, talk about entitled. Would you rather we go out and lose every game 5-4 and see attacking all guns blazing football, or win every game 1-0 or 2-0, shit housing on every team we play. Liverpool got gubbed by 4 last ngiht and we won, you'd honestly think it was the other way around reading some posts on here.....

Some need to give their head a wobble if they're not enjoying this.

Today I'm singing the new europa theme tune to my west ham pal sitting next to me and loving every minute !!!
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,038
48,794
“Yeah we won, but we didn’t win the way I WANTED US TO!!!!”

the same culprits every week

I think a lot of is from fans who don't understand how Conte wants to play.

I read so much about needing a creative number 10 or how our midfield two get 'overrun'. Fact is Conte is a manager who wants us to control the match in our defensive third, allowing us to spring forward through counter-attacks and overloads on the flanks. He isn't interested in dominating the middle of the pitch.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
Whether you like it or not is a different matter, but in terms of the "tactics" per se I don't think there is a lot wrong with them. The problem at the moment is the fortunes of our attacking unit. At the end of last campaign it was clicking, they were in some form, it looked slick, efficient, and getting wins by convincing scorelines. At the moment it's not, so performances and results look a bit shakier.

For me the fact we were so slick towards end of last season and also in the way we started the season vs Southampton, it makes me think that we're now adapting to something slightly different which is why there's almost growing pains as we balance whatever it is we're currently doing in training with navigating these early games.

Epilogue: See there is some argument about deliberately starting slow and conserving energy and then stepping on the gas later on in games when it's needed and the opposition have punched themselves out. Not sure I'm convinced by that, but if it is correct it is a tough ask and no wonder the team might be struggling to put that into practice. We play largely without the ball. If you have it then you can have control of the tempo of proceedings and how much risk you take with your play and it's a lot easier to kill the game a bit. Without it, it is hard to manage certain aspects and not exactly easy to say "ok we'll sit back and rest just enough, but not too much". Quite tough to get that right and not get yourself in bother.

On this part I think the way in which we're conserving energy is based moreso on overloads and in the first half we take a lot less risks. I don't think it's underperforming on purpose but we're hoping we can score through less intense patterns of play, an allowance of more touches, less bodies getting forward and when the other team has the ball we lay less traps in our presses, we don't have Bentancur and Hojbjerg for example stepping forward to overwhelm defenders and the DM so we're conserving through simply not running the plays in the same manner and it's perceived as lethargy.

I'm very much somebody who values more great football over results but I really enjoy watching us under Conte because even if it isn't relentless attacking football that's not my barometer of great football, my barometer is more about the quality of which we carry out the system we are trying to implement. The thing with Conte is that whilst we do have a pragmatic approach his patterns of play are stunning and we play out from the back, there is a very strong technical level required and so I enjoy that. That being said yes we haven't as good as we've shown we can be under Conte but if there was ever a season where some acknowledgement of navigating difficult circumstances should happen, it's probably the one where there's a massive world cup slapped in the middle of it making the schedule absurd to what human beings are capable of physically.
 
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Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,317
57,802
It was really disheartening seeing Bentancur trying to press higher up the pitch and very few of his teammates following his lead. We really struggle playing through a strong press and teams will continue to take this approach when coming up against us.

I think you need 3 in CM to press effectively. One to hold, one to press and one to cut off passing lanes. I think we suffer in many ways with the pivot setup, often getting outnumbered and passed through and losing the majority of second balls in the middle, but it seems pretty much set in stone that's how Conte wants it. I think Man City might rip us to bits at the weekend though and would be much happier with Bissouma, Bentancur and Hojbjerg in CM, at least for starters.
 

jurgen11

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2004
1,852
4,607
I think a lot of is from fans who don't understand how Conte wants to play.

I read so much about needing a creative number 10 or how our midfield two get 'overrun'. Fact is Conte is a manager who wants us to control the match in our defensive third, allowing us to spring forward through counter-attacks and overloads on the flanks. He isn't interested in dominating the middle of the pitch.
had this conversation with a pal at the game last night. Everyone screaming for creative midfielders except Conte who doesn't want one
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
had this conversation with a pal at the game last night. Everyone screaming for creative midfielders except Conte who doesn't want one

I wanted one but more in the way of allowing us tactical flexibility when plan A isn't working, adding strings to the bow that is the squad as an alternative, though not a number 10 in the traditional sense but more like whatever this new version of Eriksen is who can do it from deeper.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,904
32,619
“Yeah we won, but we didn’t win the way I WANTED US TO!!!!”

the same culprits every week
I made this point a couple of weeks ago.... But that is allowed, and we have to be careful about post(er)s trying to police/shut down thought and opinion.

Whether you win, lose or draw and wherever you are in the table you can have an opinion. Hopefully in the form of considered, quality posts, but..... You're allowed to like it, you're allowed to not like it. If you want us to play in a different way you should be able to state it even if you're in the minority and not feel browbeaten by the majority or that you have to go along with it because your team is winning matches.

If someone doesn't like something they can stick to it and say it every week, it's what a discussion forum is for surely? Personally I'd/do find the "we won, that's all that matters" and to move on and nothing is worth talking about extremely bland and boring tbh.
 

yusrisafri

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,369
7,548
I think a lot of is from fans who don't understand how Conte wants to play.

I read so much about needing a creative number 10 or how our midfield two get 'overrun'. Fact is Conte is a manager who wants us to control the match in our defensive third, allowing us to spring forward through counter-attacks and overloads on the flanks. He isn't interested in dominating the middle of the pitch.
So he allows our players to just surrender possession cheaply with wayward passes so that we can control the match from our defensive third?
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,703
105,010
I think as long as we are getting results he won't change anything. I doubt he cares too much if the fans are entertained or not, as long as we keep picking up points. It will click sooner or later though I'm sure of that.

I'm not particularly either. Last night was the only game so far this season that I have been to that I haven't really enjoyed, yet we still won. Ultimately we cant be picky. I'm delighted at the start of the season so far.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,703
105,010
I’m not concerned by our tactical approach. It’s nothing like the way we played under Jose, which was genuinely unsustainable. Under Jose it always felt like his approach had a ceiling, and we hit it. Under Conte it feels like we’re nowhere near it. We saw hints of it towards the end of last season.

One of the main encouraging factors with our approach under Conte is that when we go a goal up we do go for the kill, and often get that buffer goal/goals. Already this season we’ve done that, against Southampton, Forest, Fulham and Marseille.

I’m excited for the season ahead.

Exactly. It feels like the team and squad has so much potential and we are only at the start of it. Just a bit of patience and trust is required.
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,040
6,192
I’d love us to shithouse 1-0 nil every week to the title. No one will care about style if it wins silverware.
Look, I agree with this, but it will be a long time before we know whether or not it wins silverware. At this rate, I'm close to just checking the results, waiting untill we get to a semi-final at least. More interested in watching Chelsea, to see how Potter does.
 

carmeldevil

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2018
7,708
46,293
Look, I agree with this, but it will be a long time before we know whether or not it wins silverware. At this rate, I'm close to just checking the results, waiting untill we get to a semi-final at least. More interested in watching Chelsea, to see how Potter does.

Confused. You are more interested in the fortunes of a rival than Tottenham?
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,038
48,794
So he allows our players to just surrender possession cheaply with wayward passes so that we can control the match from our defensive third?

That's not what I said. It's more that the system is setup to make us feel comfortable when back in our own defensive third. Knowing it allows us space to attack or means we can shift it out to overload the opposition on the flanks. So us not having control in midfield is by design rather than a flaw of the system.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
What I fail to understand from those that are getting frustrated is how they actually want us to play? What is the expectation?

Ultimately the framework is clearly there for how AC wants us to play and I think everyone can see that some out of form attacking play is really nothing to do with the system istelf. Sons poor touch and failure to beat his man is not down to tactics for example.

We were never, in a million years going to get Klopp style football from Conte, so genuinely I'm wondering what are the expectations from Conte?

We rarely fail to score, and conceed very few clear chances which in itself is perfect formula for winning games.

I just wonder how many Liverpool fans were getting frustrated with Klopp during his second season at Liverpool, while his players were still learning their trade, getting beat by Burnley, Bournemouth, Swansea and Hull.
 

Tezza1978

Well-Known Member
Jun 3, 2021
783
3,044
Look, I agree with this, but it will be a long time before we know whether or not it wins silverware. At this rate, I'm close to just checking the results, waiting untill we get to a semi-final at least. More interested in watching Chelsea, to see how Potter does.
What is it with this obsession with Potter by some on here? Some are convinced he is the Second Coming or at least the Second Poch. He's got zero experience of a team with big egos like Chelsea and will get very little time, their board and fans will be quickly on his back after a few poor results. I wouldnt swap Conte for him in a million years.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
Look, I agree with this, but it will be a long time before we know whether or not it wins silverware. At this rate, I'm close to just checking the results, waiting untill we get to a semi-final at least. More interested in watching Chelsea, to see how Potter does.

Says more about you than Conte!
 
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