Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Caco]

Let’s be honest, this entire season Conte’s got a lot of slack because we all love the idea of Conte, rather than actual Conte.

Is that really true though? So I didn't watch the game on Saturday as Ireland were playing France in the rugby and I tend to have priorities when it comes to 6 nations, as well as my local team. But I said to my mates that I expected Spurs to lose to Leicester, mainly due to Conte being back in the dug out. Said to the daughter tonight, that Spurs would probably lose and do very little to prevent that from happening based on the way they usually play. As a "fan", that's not right, but 4 years of shite from Conte, Nuno and Jose has me thinking that way. I don't enjoy watching Spurs anymore, although admittedly enjoyed Jose's first game, but that's it. Can honestly say that I didn't really enjoy the Man City wins over the years as I always knew that they'd lose the easier games after.

 

[Spursfan1414]

Just so you are aware not every training session involves intense physical exercise. It's very possible he's cancelling days off because he wants them in to talk about things after a game while it's still fresh. It might be that the subs have a full training session and the players that played just have extended physio or even classroom sessions.

You're looking for things to be angry about on this occasion it happens at every club.

I’m not looking for things to be angry about. It’s not being reported as typical of us in the past or of other clubs at the moment, it’s reported as being out of ordinary. I said I was concerned that this spoke to a lack of long term planning and might exacerbate fitness/recovery issues. If you’re consistently cancelling rest days it sounds like you don’t have a coherent long term plan, otherwise you’d know those days weren’t for rest in advance.

I wouldn’t be “angry” even if this decision was detrimental to us. At least in this case it sounds like he accepts there’s a tactical issue and he’s open to changing to solve that. I prefer that to seeing the same issues week after week either way.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Id literally break ties as of tomorrow. Fuck it bring in Harry or whoever and I think the biggest change you can make right now that would make such a huge change is - lads enjoy your football and play like you wanna play. No shackles. Release the shackles bitches - like that will change everything

It’ll also change the atmosphere and mood and momentum with the fans which would make a huge difference.

The same style of play on repeat for the last 3 years is killing any enjoyment but it’s also killing the mood which also hugely effects the team’s performance, it’s all a cycle that can start to be undone with a more likeable manager who plays a better brand of football.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

One thing is certain for me. If we have any intention to switch to a high press attacking manager next season we need to do it now really. If that is what we end up doing the change will take a few months to adapt too. It’s going to be a big decision to make in the coming weeks especially if results don't improve.

And knowing us we’ll drag it all out last minute and end up with yet another defensive manager anyway.

Life is about enjoyment and making the most of things, winning comes into that but so does the style of play and general mood and momentum of the crowd, right now I’d happily take Poch back tomorrow purely to just put some similes on some of our fans and some of our players faces again, this is just soul-destroying at the moment.

 

[Caco]

So, I take it you have nothing then.

This is Conte from last month:

"To get a place in the Champions League last season, that was a big, big achievement for us," he said. "The other aspect that I like a lot, we are building a solid foundation for the present and for the future. I'm really proud of the work that we are doing."


Where are you reading that Conte is constantly complaining about resources.

Seriously mate, read between the lines. All this talk about players needing to suffer, what does that actually mean? It's absolute bullshit. He was directly asked today post match about his two young midfielders who did really well, but didn't even respond, add to that his disinterested demeanor on the sideline. There is plenty of news stories quoting his post match statements about his team, not going to bother searching and sharing as no doubt you have a defensive agenda and would criticize the integrity of the journalists. But the dogs on the street know he has no idea of how to improve this teams fortunes without a crock of gold.

 

[soup]

conte has always been a horrific champions league manager

It's this one game a week problem again. We want to be winning cups and leagues but two games a week makes it impossible.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I'm not sure why I'm even posting in this thread again, but sure here I go for shits and giggles in simple bullets.

• Conte is one of the highest paid managers on the planet
• Instead of managing, he constantly talks in the media about the lack of resources at his disposal
• Players aren't stupid, they know they're said resources
• Conte moans about not being able to get best out of constantly publicly criticized resources
• Players know he won't be here long term so are likely just as sick of this shite as the rest of us
• Conte's contract is up soon, we have the option to re-new, but for the life of me I can't understand why we would.

We all know that ENIC haven't seriously backed any manager, so not sure why we really thought they'd back a manager who had previously turned us down based on initial discussion about investment in the playing squad. I have every faith that if we bought the best player's available in every position for Conte, then he would be able to win the league, but I'm also under no doubt that if we had done the same for Redknapp that he would also have won the league, difference being that it would have been more enjoyable under Harry.

To all the dreamers out there who genuinely believe that if we had a board who where prepared to back this manager, that things would be different, I say one thing, Conte has no interest in developing players and any investment made in any team to deliver the type of success would be short term and is completely unsustainable in this day and age.

ENIC have made some terrible managerial appointments. The complete shot in the dark punts with the likes of Gross, Santini and Nuno. The ill advised Chelsea cast off's in Jose, Villa Boas and now Conte without applying the financial clout, along with the sentimental appointment with Hoddle, but they haven't worked out, not even come close. The only ones that have actually worked out for the fans was Jol, who only got the job by default, Redknapp, who I'm sure many of us believed initially was a short term stop gap after Ramos and lastly Poch, who I don't think anyone really expected anything from. The main take away from these three was they got the fans and they tried to play football that excited, had ENIC seriously backed any of these managers then we would've achieved success. We have an opportunity to get one of them back, at this stage after suffering almost 4 years of Jose and Conte negative shite, I'd take it, we need to enjoy our team again.

Absolutely brilliant post. I hope many many more feel like this and if/when Conte leaves in summer we try to block any more negative boring football quick fix manager hires, no Tuchel, no Anchellotti, no Capello lol get someone who plays football we want to watch they’re the only managers in the last 22 years who’ve made us happy and who the crowd get behind.

*although Gross was appointed by Sugar not Levy but ignore me as was a great post and the rest is absolutely spot on mate* ?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many people turn on a manager now on here……not since the last one anyway.

When a guy’s time is up with the fans you just know. I’m not sure it is quite there yet with the team though.

It’s not at Nuno levels yet but if we go out the FA Cup and CL in quick succession and keep playing like this it’ll start to get bad for Conte and Levy in the grounds.

 

[soup]

Let’s be honest, this entire season Conte’s got a lot of slack because we all love the idea of Conte, rather thactual Conte.

Totally. He came here as a gladiator, rousing everyone up, giving inspiring, enjoyable pressers etc., but now he just talks about pressure, suffering and generally looks like he's given up.

When you look at the death of his friends, his obvious pining for Italy, his illness, our style, our form, our results, his short contract and his current state of mind not looking too good, you wonder what is going in his or our favour atm. There are a lot of arrows all pointing in the same direction but everyone at the club just seems to be glossing over it.

 

[delawarespur]

Check out his second season with Chelsea. He is great when he has no UCL distractions, and a massive blank cheque book. For me he is very well suited for Italy but we can't afford what he needs every summer.

5th and an FA cup isn’t a failure of a season in my eyes. I can’t speak for Chelsea fans, and I’m aware they weren’t happy with him during that season, but sign me up for that season instantly. It is also a season we could still have at this point. I’m not debating he’s much more suited to one game a week. That is pretty much a fact at this point, and I don’t debate facts. However he coped with UCL in the first half of the 19/20 and 20/21 seasons with Inter. The 17/18 Chelsea team mostly faltered after Christmas and after Barca knocked them out of the CL. Also, he didn’t actually spend unsustainable amounts at Chelsea or Inter. Morata, Lukaku, Hakimi, Bakayoko, Batshuayi, Rudiger the most expensive signings off the top of my head. He just found or inherited players that worked for him. I think if we kept the exact same squad next season and just spent 75 mil on a CCB, LCB, and GK, we’d see a huge difference. It’s not unrealistic. Raya, Guehi, Facundo Medina. Or whoever the manager wants that fits the club’s profile. Then the manager has shaped his team and squad completely to his liking bar Kane, Son, and Højbjerg. Who are 2 of our 3 best players this season and last season’s golden boot winner. Then I judge the manager. I really do think the defensive issues are debilitating. I’m not gonna say the manager shouldn’t change his ways to match the situation. I don’t like the stubbornness. We have a shit defence. Fine, then do something. Play more attacking so we might just outscore teams. Maybe play a flat back 4 and create more stability that way. Stop forcing Son to hold the ball up for starters.

The issue for me lies in that I really do believe in the success of Conte’s system when it contains all the right parts, and as I already said, I do think the last parts are affordable and should certainly be in place for next season even if the club does the bare minimum. His career gives me no reason to doubt that he succeeds here at all. Believe me if he’s here next season with all the tools at his disposal and fails, I’d be devastated because then I would 100% have to blame Conte fully (either that or the club’s just cursed). But in my mind, he’ll succeed with his tools, and that’s why I’m never gonna support the idea of getting rid of him before we reach that point. I’ll end with that him leaving is another matter, and the contract uncertainty is definitely really annoying. I do think we have to be certain of his future one way or another, and that the uncertainty is just creating this negative mood around the club. He could sign a new deal tomorrow, and I’m sure many fans would be unhappy, but at least we know he’s here to work with the club to build something. Likewise, if he leaves tomorrow, at least we have certainty. I think the time to decide on a long term plan is long overdue, with or without Conte. For me I want it to be with him, but I’m not oblivious to his faults and want him to do better and do something different.

 

[Caco]

Absolutely brilliant post. I hope many many more feel like this and if/when Conte leaves in summer we try to block any more negative boring football quick fix manager hires, no Tuchel, no Anchellotti, no Capello lol get someone who plays football we want to watch they’re the only managers in the last 22 years who’ve made us happy and who the crowd get behind.

*although Gross was appointed by Sugar not Levy but ignore me as was a great post and the rest is absolutely spot on mate* ?

Ah yeah, can remember the confused look on Sugar's face when he pulled out the tube ticket.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Seriously mate, read between the lines.

Therein lies a huge problem - too many people "reading between the lines" to reach a pre-determined conclusion.

Every manager wants new players. But you comment was: "he constantly talks in the media about the lack of resources at his disposal"

I follow a lot of Spurs media - but I don't keep up with everything. But, he is very clearly not "constantly" talking in the media about a lack of resources. That is a false narrative. There are lots of reasons to want Conte out - there is no need to make something up that isn't there.

Most people want Conte gone because they don't like his style of football. I get that, and can appreciate that. But, he is not running to the media - in England or Italy - to constantly complain about what he has to work with.

 

[Caco]

5th and an FA cup isn’t a failure of a season in my eyes. I can’t speak for Chelsea fans, and I’m aware they weren’t happy with him during that season, but sign me up for that season instantly. It is also a season we could still have at this point. I’m not debating he’s much more suited to one game a week. That is pretty much a fact at this point, and I don’t debate facts. However he coped with UCL in the first half of the 19/20 and 20/21 seasons with Inter. The 17/18 Chelsea team mostly faltered after Christmas and after Barca knocked them out of the CL. Also, he didn’t actually spend unsustainable amounts at Chelsea or Inter. Morata, Lukaku, Hakimi, Bakayoko, Batshuayi, Rudiger the most expensive signings off the top of my head. He just found or inherited players that worked for him. I think if we kept the exact same squad next season and just spent 75 mil on a CCB, LCB, and GK, we’d see a huge difference. It’s not unrealistic. Raya, Guehi, Facundo Medina. Or whoever the manager wants that fits the club’s profile. Then the manager has shaped his team and squad completely to his liking bar Kane, Son, and Højbjerg. Who are 2 of our 3 best players this season and last season’s golden boot winner. Then I judge the manager. I really do think the defensive issues are debilitating. I’m not gonna say the manager shouldn’t change his ways to match the situation. I don’t like the stubbornness. We have a shit defence. Fine, then do something. Play more attacking so we might just outscore teams. Maybe play a flat back 4 and create more stability that way. Stop forcing Son to hold the ball up for starters.

The issue for me lies in that I really do believe in the success of Conte’s system when it contains all the right parts, and as I already said, I do think the last parts are affordable and should certainly be in place for next season even if the club does the bare minimum. His career gives me no reason to doubt that he succeeds here at all. Believe me if he’s here next season with all the tools at his disposal and fails, I’d be devastated because then I would 100% have to blame Conte fully (either that or the club’s just cursed). But in my mind, he’ll succeed with his tools, and that’s why I’m never gonna support the idea of getting rid of him before we reach that point. I’ll end with that him leaving is another matter, and the contract uncertainty is definitely really annoying. I do think we have to be certain of his future one way or another, and that the uncertainty is just creating this negative mood around the club. He could sign a new deal tomorrow, and I’m sure many fans would be unhappy, but at least we know he’s here to work with the club to build something. Likewise, if he leaves tomorrow, at least we have certainty. I think the time to decide on a long term plan is long overdue, with or without Conte. For me I want it to be with him, but I’m not oblivious to his faults and want him to do better and do something different.

I get your point and can see that you really want to see success, but I genuinely believe that the world of football is changing, and in my opinion for the better. The days of WC's going to nations that have to build entire cities to host events was always unsustainable, but its only now that FIFA are standing up and listening. We all read read little Daniel's piece in the BBC last week, and why may of us will dismiss this as typical Levy, he's right. Every industry needs to be more sustainable, possibly 50 years too late in most cases, but it has to happen. A few small Conte investments as you say may be a key, but I'd wager they'd all be over 30 and at their peak, so what does that really do for our sustainability model?

 

[DanielJohnCosta]

This is from last October:

“We know this situation with the club and the club knows very well we need time and patience, to try to go step by step. I spoke about the transfer market, that we needed more transfer markets to reach a good level. We know this. At the same time we want to be competitive, to try to do everything.”

Since then we have had two windows and put a lot into the club and we are playing worse football??

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Since then we have had two windows and put a lot into the club and we are playing worse football??

Wait, wat?

 

[13VanDerBale13]

There’s just no excitement/anticipation when it comes to watching us.

That’s how you know things are bad ?

 

[gibbospurs]

This is from last October:

“We know this situation with the club and the club knows very well we need time and patience, to try to go step by step. I spoke about the transfer market, that we needed more transfer markets to reach a good level. We know this. At the same time we want to be competitive, to try to do everything.”

Give it a rest pal, we get you’re in love with conte. But he’s a one trick pony, and it’s not working. And if I were Levy I wouldn’t be looking to back him with this crap formation either.

 

[Caco]

Therein lies a huge problem - too many people "reading between the lines" to reach a pre-determined conclusion.

Every manager wants new players. But you comment was: "he constantly talks in the media about the lack of resources at his disposal"

I follow a lot of Spurs media - but I don't keep up with everything. But, he is very clearly not "constantly" talking in the media about a lack of resources. That is a false narrative. There are lots of reasons to want Conte out - there is no need to make something up that isn't there.

Most people want Conte gone because they don't like his style of football. I get that, and can appreciate that. But, he is not running to the media - in England or Italy - to constantly complain about what he has to work with.

Maybe the problem is some people just accepting the narrative. There is plenty of stuff out there, relating to investment, players needing to suffer or medical teams needing to take partial blame for current predicaments, but in many peoples view this is not relevant, and that's fine. I have no interest in arguing on the matter, so will go with the facts as I see it, but clearly open to scrutiny.

We currently have a manager who is just going through the motions, although there are still some "fans" who feel the right thing to do right now is give this lad a chance and back him, my opinion is to do so will seriously undermine the future sustainability of the club. In my opinion, if Conte is backed to the level that he requires, there is a heightened chance of success, but no guarantee of actual enjoyment.

Fact - If our current owners back Conte to the extent he requires to win a league title, we will be in the same position as Leeds were post Dave O'Leary a few short years after.

 

[Pistols At Dawn]

w

Generally been pro-Conte but I actively hope he

Obviously not really Conte's fault - doesn't make sense to bring him in if you're not going to go massive in the market - but at this point I'd genuinely rather we make a clean break than even try to offer him a big contract and sign a bunch of "Conte players".

Not that he'd agree anyway - I think his heart is already back in Italy and he wants to go home.

i rated this winner because I agree with just about everything you say. Except one small quibble:

We are something like 4th in the league in expenditures. At what point is this considered a MASSIVE backing of the manager?

Seems at least substantial to me if not massive, so maybe he’s just making excuses now?

 

[DanielJohnCosta]

Wait, wat?

Sorry read it as if last season. Point still valid