Everton going for top 4

[Danners9]

Their finishing yesterday was atrocious. Most of their play throughout the game was terrible, too. Hurried, uncoordinated and often it looked as if there was no idea in mind when they had the ball.

Are they coached? the only bit of organisation I could spot was when they had a free kick, otherwise every play seemed at random. Defending was hap-hazard, and there was one header that fell to Coleman (I think) who hoofed it out of play to clear instead of getting a call and playing it out.

Okay, it's a Derby game, so maybe they played a bit differently but when you compare to teams like Spurs, City, Liverpool most of the time, Arsenal, and even Burnley, there's some thought behind the way they break, pass, the runs they make. Didn't see any of that in Everton yesterday. If they'd scored at any time in the first 85 minutes I would have considered it an accident. Then in that last 5 they had no composure at all.

 

[spursfan77]

Outside of spending money they don't appear to have many plans.

They bought a lot of young players, nothing wrong with that in theory, then hired Koeman a manager who didn't bring through youth at Southampton.

Once they fired Koeman they first approached Silva then hired Allardyce. Not exactly like for like managers. They are not building continuity just spending money and hiring the best manager available.

And they’ve appointed some new recruitment guy to replace Steve Walsh.

Although I guess that shows they are trying.

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

Consistency is the mark of success so I'd disagree with that.

No, titles are the mark of success, so I'd disagree with you on that. No one will remember a consistent side in 20 years time.theyll be remembered for a trophy. It's great football we play and a pleasure to watch after numerous years of white since I've been going in 82. But tbh I only remember those side that won something. Oh and lasagna gate team.

 

[Shadydan]

No, titles are the mark of success, so I'd disagree with you on that. No one will remember a consistent side in 20 years time.theyll be remembered for a trophy. It's great football we play and a pleasure to watch after numerous years of white since I've been going in 82. But tbh I only remember those side that won something. Oh and lasagna gate team.

Do you think our last cup winning side under Ramos is going to be remembered more than our current side?

Success is subjective though, Arsenal have won the last few FA cups, would you say they are a success? I'm measuring our success comparing it to the time when we were absolutely dog shit, we've made continued progress on and off the pitch which to me equates success but a trophy be the cherry on the icing.

 

[dontcallme]

And they’ve appointed some new recruitment guy to replace Steve Walsh.

Although I guess that shows they are trying.

Fair points.

To be fair Levy spent almost the whole of the season with a caretaker manager in charge researching ways to place a more permanent structure in place.

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

Do you think our last cup winning side under Ramos is going to be remembered more than our current side?

Success is subjective though, Arsenal have won the last few FA cups, would you say they are a success? I'm measuring our success comparing it to the time when we were absolutely dog shit, we've made continued progress on and off the pitch which to me equates success but a trophy be the cherry on the icing.

I would say Arsenal are successful. As are Chelsea, City and United. Success is measured in trophies, end of.

However, I will add that I would rather be in our current situation than any of those above because the progress we have made, organically, in the last 10 years is exciting. Now the stadium is just around the corner and with a great footballing side, hopefully SUCCESS will follow.

But hey, even if it doesn't , I'm loving the moment.

 

[Shadydan]

I would say Arsenal are successful. As are Chelsea, City and United. Success is measured in trophies, end of.

However, I will add that I would rather be in our current situation than any of those above because the progress we have made, organically, in the last 10 years is exciting. Now the stadium is just around the corner and with a great footballing side, hopefully SUCCESS will follow.

But hey, even if it doesn't , I'm loving the moment.

Dude you totally ignored my Ramos question lol, our last cup winning team was nowhere near a successful side, we finished 11th that season and the following year was 2 point from 8 games debacle.

If you're measuring success in winning trophies then presuming Chelsea Utd or Arsenal don't pick up silverware this season then surely you can call them failures then?

But all good no worries

 

[teok]

Big Sam seems incredibly good at making the fans of the teams he manages hate him.

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

Dude you totally ignored my Ramos question lol, our last cup winning team was nowhere near a successful side, we finished 11th that season and the following year was 2 point from 8 games debacle.

If you're measuring success in winning trophies then presuming Chelsea Utd or Arsenal don't pick up silverware this season then surely you can call them failures then?

But all good no worries

I was trying to ignore it!
the Ramos side was poor with results. But we did beat Chelsea in a cup final and that was a fantastic day! Then we lost berbatov and bought Bentley so the next season didn't start so great. But even then Redknapp did wonders after he come in with that side to get us to 7th and above wet spam.
I certainly wouldn't call any of the sides we have had under pochettino failures! Absolutely not. Just need that trophy to make them a success. Hey let's get the Cup and we'll all be happily enjoying another cup final win over chelsea

 

['O Zio]

I would say Arsenal are successful. As are Chelsea, City and United. Success is measured in trophies, end of

To me winning one or two minor trophies does not mean success. You say nobody will remember a great side who never won anything but I would argue nobody except Spurs fans will really remember us winning the Carling Cup in 2008. We remember it but that's largely down to the fact that we haven't won anything better to be honest. Likewise Arsenal have won the FA Cup a few times in recent years but nobody really talks about that because none of that overrides the fact that the club is in complete turmoil and everyone is just waiting for the change to come.

Success is also completely subjective. To a club who starts out the season aiming to win the title etc. then obviously to a certain extent their success is measured on whether they win the league or not. But if you're Burnley for example, They're looking like finishing as the "best of the rest" despite having one of the smallest budgets in the league by a long way. They've exceeded expectations by absolutely miles so how can you sit there and say they've not had a successful season just because they haven't won a trophy?

 

[RichieS]

To me winning one or two minor trophies does not mean success. You say nobody will remember a great side who never won anything but I would argue nobody except Spurs fans will really remember us winning the Carling Cup in 2008. We remember it but that's largely down to the fact that we haven't won anything better to be honest. Likewise Arsenal have won the FA Cup a few times in recent years but nobody really talks about that because none of that overrides the fact that the club is in complete turmoil and everyone is just waiting for the change to come.

Success is also completely subjective. To a club who starts out the season aiming to win the title etc. then obviously to a certain extent their success is measured on whether they win the league or not. But if you're Burnley for example, They're looking like finishing as the "best of the rest" despite having one of the smallest budgets in the league by a long way. They've exceeded expectations by absolutely miles so how can you sit there and say they've not had a successful season just because they haven't won a trophy?

The best counter to that is the Newcastle side of the mid to late '90s. Everybody of a certain vintage remembers them.

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

To me winning one or two minor trophies does not mean success. You say nobody will remember a great side who never won anything but I would argue nobody except Spurs fans will really remember us winning the Carling Cup in 2008. We remember it but that's largely down to the fact that we haven't won anything better to be honest. Likewise Arsenal have won the FA Cup a few times in recent years but nobody really talks about that because none of that overrides the fact that the club is in complete turmoil and everyone is just waiting for the change to come.

Success is also completely subjective. To a club who starts out the season aiming to win the title etc. then obviously to a certain extent their success is measured on whether they win the league or not. But if you're Burnley for example, They're looking like finishing as the "best of the rest" despite having one of the smallest budgets in the league by a long way. They've exceeded expectations by absolutely miles so how can you sit there and say they've not had a successful season just because they haven't won a trophy?

As you say succeeds I objective. But we are not Burnley, we are Tottenham and success is measured in trophies only.

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

The best counter to that is the Newcastle side of the mid to late '90s. Everybody of a certain vintage remembers them.

Were they successful? No everyone remembers them for Keegan blowing up!

 

[RichieS]

Were they successful? No everyone remembers them for Keegan blowing up!

And the games against Liverpool and Asprilla against Barça and Ferencváros and... They were an exciting, memorable team to watch and that is why people remember them 20 years later.

What about the Netherlands sides of the 70's?

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

And the games against Liverpool and Asprilla against Barça and Ferencváros and... They were an exciting, memorable team to watch and that is why people remember them 20 years later.

What about the Netherlands sides of the 70's?

Great games. But not successful. Won nothing.

Dutch side were remembered as the nearly men and for Cruyff

 

['O Zio]

As you say succeeds I objective. But we are not Burnley, we are Tottenham and success is measured in trophies only.

Right, we're Tottenham, a team who has only had the occasional minor domestic cup win in the last 50-odd years so success for us at this stage is being in a position to compete for the major trophies IMO. Because until very recently we've been a long way off that. We haven't been in the running for the major trophies in most of our fans' lifetimes. It's easy to be snobbish about Burnley but at the end of the day they've won as many major trophies recently as we have.

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

Right, we're Tottenham, a team who has only had the occasional minor trophy win in the last 50-odd years so success for us at this stage is being in a position to compete for the major trophies IMO. Because until very recently we've been a long way off that.

So we're not successful. which is what I said originally.

 

['O Zio]

So we're not successful. which is what I said originally.

I'm saying we have been successful because success cannot be measured purely in trophies. It's all relative. I used the example of Burnley having an undeniably successful season despite not winning anything, but you rubbished that example saying that we're Spurs so our success is measured in trophies, insinuating that we are always in line for them when, as I said in my other post, we haven't really been competitive for the big trophies in half a century.

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

Right, we're Tottenham, a team who has only had the occasional minor domestic cup win in the last 50-odd years so success for us at this stage is being in a position to compete for the major trophies IMO. Because until very recently we've been a long way off that. We haven't been in the running for the major trophies in most of our fans' lifetimes. It's easy to be snobbish about Burnley but at the end of the day they've won as many major trophies recently as we have.

The fa cup and the UEFA cup weren't small titles when we won them in the 80s. The last 15-20 years of the Premier League and Champions League has made them slightly less significant. And what trophies have Burnley won since 1960? it's not snobbish it's a fact.

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

I'm saying we have been successful because success cannot be measured purely in trophies. It's all relative. I used the example of Burnley having an undeniably successful season despite not winning anything, but you rubbished that example saying that we're Spurs so our success is measured in trophies, insinuating that we are always in line for them when, as I said in my other post, we haven't really been competitive for the big trophies in half a century.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Success is measured in trophies and as one of the most successful clubs in England, 6th or 7th, we should always be aiming high and that is with silverware.