Bale is a winger, no he is a full back etc. blah blah blah

[guy]

But the fact is he's a LB :roll:






:razz:

 

[archiewasking]

Two suggestions? I'm pretty sure I count three :wink:

Nit picker. And I work in an accounts department too.

 

[duffster]

I'm going to throw in a complete curve ball here. Ever since I first saw Bale play for us I have thought that his best position will be as a goal-scoring central attacking midfielder. I think he could get upwards of 15 goals a season in a Gerrard-esque manner.

 

[StartingPrice]

yeah he did - the team looked a bit disorganized with Ekotto on the right, Bale as LB and Modric as LW. After he corrected that, normal service was resumed and we were all over them and I thought we were gonna do them hard on their ground.

I dont think people are ignoring what Harry and Bale have said or that he was signed as a LB, it is just that they, including me, think that Bale is much better player as LW than as LB, that it comes natural to him and should be played as such.

But they have, and you do, Boris, that's exactly what you have done. It has been explained to you that there a difference between stating your opinion, which I have no objection to, and in stating that 'Bale IS a winger'. It was explained to you, and then you went from one thread to another still saying 'Bale IS a winger', and 'See, Bale IS a winger', (someone, prob. not you Boris), even said 'Anyone who doesn't understand that Bale IS a winger is an idiot'.
For me, that is all this has been about. An acknowledgement that Bale actually IS a full-back, followed by those who want him to be a winger staing that as an opinion, not a fact. Simple really:
"Bale IS a winger" = statement of fact (erroneous).
"I would LIKE Bale to be converted permanently into a winger" = statement of opinion, and, hence, not something that can be right or wrong.

Get it:shrug:

 

[guy]

OMFG

No one cares about the facts! We all know he's factually a LB (one look on the OS and we can see Bale is listed as a defender), but its beside the point!

Get it:shrug:

 

[StartingPrice]

OMFG

No one cares about the facts! We all know he's factually a LB (one look on the OS and we can see Bale is listed as a defender), but its beside the point!

Get it:shrug:

Firstly, I have you on ignore, but decided to read this post, you will now be back on ignore, so don't waste time responding to me again.
Secondly, people do care, I was one of them. I objected to the fac tthat the term 'idiot' was used about anyone who 'couldn't see that Bale IS a winger', and wanted to clarify the situation, get it.
You don't care, yeah, we get that...you are not 'everyone' - other people do care.
A firm basis for the debate, Bale is a full-back, is somewhere from which folk can discuss, reasonalby, whether they want him to stay as such, convert to a winger, or switch between the two, without abusing people or stating things as fac tthat just aren't so, and then being abusive when others don't agree with it...and you have managed to get into an argument with me just for saying that, while claiming you don't care:duh:
:hello: Bye, now, and don't forget, I won't be reading any of your posts from now on, that's what being put on 'ignore' means, so don't waste your time by replying (which is, after all, something you claim you have no interest in, in any case).

 

[alpha]

"I think he'll become a great left-back eventually. That's how I see it," Redknapp said.

Harry hails emerging Bale
Welshman committed to Spurs before fourth place was guaranteed

Last updated: 8th May 2010
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6140256,00.html?

 

[Tonio]

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about here. I don't understand why this thread was started or indeed why it is continuing to drag on.

I also don't really see how people are disagreeing with SP? How is this even an argument?

For those without a grip on the English language, who seem unable to differentiate between fact and opinion, the above were rhetorical questions! :wink:

So unless the Mods agree with the thread or understand why a thread was started, it shouldnt be started? Im getting a little tired of all this. Just let people discuss what they want to discuss?? if you dont like it then run rule over a different thread or start your own. This forum would be empty if people didnt discuss anything. :shrug:

 

[Dr Know]

Regardless of where he plays or where each person thinks he's best played I'm just glad he's a Spurs player!!

COYS

 

[Raxscallion]

This is such a tiresome argument.

As I've said before, Gareth Bale is a football player who is best suited to playing on the left hand side.

That's it.

There is nothing more.

There is no inherent trait that 'makes' a player a LM or a LB. If you dissected Bale, you wouldn't find he had some weird ancillary organ that marked him out as a defender or midfielder. He can tackle, dribble, pass, mark and shoot. He's a football player.

 

[Adam456]

Beat me to it

Mill and Million do near identical posts within 30 secs of each other

Scary :think:

 

[Adam456]

yeah he did - the team looked a bit disorganized with Ekotto on the right, Bale as LB and Modric as LW. After he corrected that, normal service was resumed and we were all over them and I thought we were gonna do them hard on their ground.

I dont think people are ignoring what Harry and Bale have said or that he was signed as a LB, it is just that they, including me, think that Bale is much better player as LW than as LB, that it comes natural to him and should be played as such.

This ^^^^^^

 

[DJS]

It will be interesting to see how we line up next season - if Bale continues on the left of midfield with Assou-Ekotto behind him we'll have a fair bit of competition for the middle spots between Hudd, Modric, the previously undroppable Wilson and the incoming Sandro.

 

[DJS]

Oh and just saw this article after reading through this thread! :lol:

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6140256,00.html



Harry Redknapp has expressed his delight at securing a new deal for Gareth Bale and insisted the Welshman wanted to commit before Tottenham sealed a top-four finish.
Bale's

emergence has helped propel Spurs to UEFA Champions League qualification but his performances have been so spectacular that rumours had surfaced of a possible move elsewhere.
The speculation was quashed on Friday as Bale signed a new four-year contract, with Redknapp

maintaining that he has a big part to play in the future at White Hart Lane.

"He's developing here now. This is a good club and there aren't too many he could go to - Manchester United,

Chelsea

and Arsenal

are the only teams above us," said the Tottenham manager.
"But he's very happy here and we don't want to sell him. He agreed a deal before we got fourth place."
Superstitious

Bale was once seen as a bad luck charm as Spurs failed to win in his first 24 Premier League outings for the club.
Redknapp admits that he even considered not selecting Bale because of the record the team had when the 20-year-old played.
"I'm very superstitious and there were times when I thought, 'That's not right, it's impossible for it to happen for him'. But he hasn't looked back since," Redknapp said.
"He went through that terrible spell of not being in a winning team but we got rid of that and his confidence has risen."

Future

Bale has the versatility to play in defence or on the wing but he has caught the eye more with his forward play.
But despite being one of Spurs' most potent attacking weapons over the past few months, Redknapp envisages the youngster establishing himself as a full-back.
"I think he'll become a great left-back eventually. That's how I see it," Redknapp said.

 

[Paq]

I've followed this argument before this thread and have also read every post in this thread. I'm left with an overwhelming sense that the argument serves only to puff up a few egos.

That this discussion has been set up as an academic argument is interesting and a bit disingenuous really. If the original argument was about Bale's 'primary classification' then the academic nature of the argument doesn't really go beyond basic reading comprehension - something a 6yr old could participate in. One only needs to visit the OS to read for themselves his primary classification.

However, somewhere along the line the language has changed. We moved from it being a fact that Bale is a full back to it being a fact that his primary classification is full back. This is classic straw man and actually suggests implicit acknowledgement that one can argue he's a winger with almost as much persuasion as arguing that he's a full back (for the record, my opinion is that he'll go on to play most of his career at full back).

There is nothing academic about this so called debate. There is however a lot of pedantry, arrogance and condescension on display and that really does leave a bitter taste; it also doesn't hide the fuzzy thinking which some participate in.

The original position was as follows: It's not an opinion that Bale is a full back, it's a 'FACT'. A real academic debate would probably concern the extent to which positions can be defined in the modern game; what defines them and the legitimacy of that criteria. That said, it's still possible to have an academic debate based on the current argument, i.e. Bale's primary classification. The name on my birth certificate is Peter; everybody calls me Paul. What's my name?

 

[DJS]

I've followed this argument before this thread and have also read every post in this thread. I'm left with an overwhelming sense that the argument serves only to puff up a few egos.

That this discussion has been set up as an academic argument is interesting and a bit disingenuous really. If the original argument was about Bale's 'primary classification' then the academic nature of the argument doesn't really go beyond basic reading comprehension - something a 6yr old could participate in. One only needs to visit the OS to read for themselves his primary classification.

However, somewhere along the line the language has changed. We moved from it being a fact that Bale is a full back to it being a fact that his primary classification is full back. This is classic straw man and actually suggests implicit acknowledgement that one can argue he's a winger with almost as much persuasion as arguing that he's a full back (for the record, my opinion is that he'll go on to play most of his career at full back).

There is nothing academic about this so called debate. There is however a lot of pedantry, arrogance and condescension on display and that really does leave a bitter taste; it also doesn't hide the fuzzy thinking which some participate in.

The original position was as follows: It's not an opinion that Bale is a full back, it's a 'FACT'. A real academic debate would probably concern the extent to which positions can be defined in the modern game; what defines them and the legitimacy of that criteria. That said, it's still possible to have an academic debate based on the current argument, i.e. Bale's primary classification. The name on my birth certificate is Peter; everybody calls me Paul. What's my name?

:-?

Glad I'm not an academist really.

 

[StartingPrice]

I've followed this argument before this thread and have also read every post in this thread. I'm left with an overwhelming sense that the argument serves only to puff up a few egos.

That this discussion has been set up as an academic argument is interesting and a bit disingenuous really. If the original argument was about Bale's 'primary classification' then the academic nature of the argument doesn't really go beyond basic reading comprehension - something a 6yr old could participate in. One only needs to visit the OS to read for themselves his primary classification.

However, somewhere along the line the language has changed. We moved from it being a fact that Bale is a full back to it being a fact that his primary classification is full back. This is classic straw man and actually suggests implicit acknowledgement that one can argue he's a winger with almost as much persuasion as arguing that he's a full back (for the record, my opinion is that he'll go on to play most of his career at full back).

There is nothing academic about this so called debate. There is however a lot of pedantry, arrogance and condescension on display and that really does leave a bitter taste; it also doesn't hide the fuzzy thinking which some participate in.

The original position was as follows: It's not an opinion that Bale is a full back, it's a 'FACT'. A real academic debate would probably concern the extent to which positions can be defined in the modern game; what defines them and the legitimacy of that criteria. That said, it's still possible to have an academic debate based on the current argument, i.e. Bale's primary classification. The name on my birth certificate is Peter; everybody calls me Paul. What's my name?

:shrug:
Are you sure you have read every post and followed it elsewhere, because you really seem to have just reached stated exactly what I stated while puroprting to offer something new. And you don't seem to understand why there is a thread.
Some posters were stating that 'Bale IS a winger' and even 'Anyone who doesn't nkow that Bale IS a winger is an idiot'.
Myself and some others simply stated that these posters may have an opinion that Bale should be a winger but that is not the same as saying he IS a winger. The fact is his primary classification is as a full-back. That is what I said and that is the conclusion you reach.
It was explained that to say Bale is a winger is a fact (an erroneous one), whereas to say you would prefer Bale to be converted into a winger is a statement of opinnion and therefore neither correct nor incorrect (some folk even want him to be converted into a central midfielder).
Despite this, posts have popped up all over the shop stating he IS a winger, and after recent games 'see he IS a winger'. 'told you he's a winger', etc. And whenever I corrected this, posters, unconnected to the original argument started popping up criticising me for correcting this inaccurate use of language (and getting quite insulting).
I wanted it made into a sticky ages ago. Someone else made it into a thread - I didn't, the post of mine was taken from elsewhere.
So, was I wrong to want some clarity?
Was I wrong to dislike the fact that some posters (who were actually factually incorrect in the first place) insulting other posters?
Was I wrong to not want the same argument to crop up on one thread after another?
There was never movement on my part from it being a fact that Bale is a full-back into being about his primary clasification being as afull-back. All I have sought IS an acknowledgement that his primary classification is as a full-back - thus providing the claritry I sought.
It might not seem like an indepth academic argument - I never claimed we were dealing with the General Theory of Relativity or any such thing. The fact is, and you would know this if you truly had read the posts, I was accused of trying to deny people their right of opinion (by insisting that Bale's primary designation is as a full-back). This is why I explained that it was about the use of language, and therefore an 'academic' argument (i.e. not an arguement about football, per se, and therefore something where every opinion is valid). I think that should be easy for you to see. That is why I took so much time and effort to explain the difference between fact and opinion. That is why I explained that:
Bale IS a winger = statement of fact.
I would prefer Bale to be converted into a winger = statement of opinon.
I did it simply at first - why would I do that if I were on an ego trip. I certainly didn't want it to drag on or to have to post at such lengths - I could find better things to 'have an ego trip' on. After stating in quite simple terms that Bale is a full-back based on the designation given by himself, his manager and his club (i.e., implicity, based on his primary classification), it was argued against, it was moved to other threads, which I specifically didn't want, I was accused on trying to deny othere peoples opinions and insulted for making the same posts over and over again, by people who didn't seem to mind the posts I was responding to, (which, obviously, made the same posts over and over again, as well), ironically by folk who specically stated they hadn't actually read my posts.
Personally, I find that a bit crappy.
And, to reiterate, some posters who stated an opinion as though it were a fact (and you agree they were wrong in this:shrug, were actually calling anyone who said Bale was a full-back (either in the sense of primary classification, or as a statement of opinion - they insultees didn't specify), idiots.
So, why is you primary concern to uncover an imagined ego trip, when there was none there, and to state that the level of the academic arguement isn't particularly high, when no-one said it was?
No-one was trying to start a real academic debate, some just wanted it clarified that Bale's primary position is as full-back, so that other posters would start using language more appropriate to their opinnion, rather than claiming fact when none insisted, and stop them from insulting others posters.
Why do you object to that?
And now, I have had to type another lenthy post, when all I wanted tyo do was state a simple clarification of the difference between fact and opinion, for reasons given above, have that accepted (you usseful accept it is just right), and everyone move on!

 

[nailsy]

But they have, and you do, Boris, that's exactly what you have done. It has been explained to you that there a difference between stating your opinion, which I have no objection to, and in stating that 'Bale IS a winger'. It was explained to you, and then you went from one thread to another still saying 'Bale IS a winger', and 'See, Bale IS a winger', (someone, prob. not you Boris), even said 'Anyone who doesn't understand that Bale IS a winger is an idiot'.
For me, that is all this has been about. An acknowledgement that Bale actually IS a full-back, followed by those who want him to be a winger staing that as an opinion, not a fact. Simple really:
"Bale IS a winger" = statement of fact (erroneous).
"I would LIKE Bale to be converted permanently into a winger" = statement of opinion, and, hence, not something that can be right or wrong.

Get it:shrug:

SP - The only thing I would say is that the Spurs Community Forums are here for people to discuss their opinions on football and Tottenham. As such you can't really expect people to start every post with 'It's my opinion that...'.

But as said earlier Bale IS a left back at the moment. Next year who knows?

 

[Coyboy]

SP, I have to ask. Why do you care so much about such a non-issue which comes down to one fact. Gareth Bale is versatile. If people think he is a winger and not a full back, who cares? It's not as if he is suddenly going to become shit.

Really, I understand the need to correct some people whether necessary or not but the length at which you do it is crazy.

I have to ask the crowd, do people read his essayist posts on Balegate? I physically cannot bear them.

 

[StartingPrice]

SP - The only thing I would say is that the Spurs Community Forums are here for people to discuss their opinions on football and Tottenham. As such you can't really expect people to start every post with 'It's my opinion that...'.

But as said earlier Bale IS a left back at the moment. Next year who knows?

And I have said SEVERAL times I have no issue with people stating their opinnions. What I have an issue with is people stating opinion as though it were fact, and then inuslting people who either point this out to them, or who state a contrary opinion.
i.e. 'Bale IS a winger'; 'Anyone who can't see that Bale IS a winger is an idiot'.
I explained this in great detail, it is my first post in the thread - perhaps you would understand that I never questiokned anyone's right to argue their opinion if you read that:shrug:

SP, I have to ask. Why do you care so much about such a non-issue which comes down to one fact. Gareth Bale is versatile. If people think he is a winger and not a full back, who cares? It's not as if he is suddenly going to become shit.

Really, I understand the need to correct some people whether necessary or not but the length at which you do it is crazy.

I have to ask the crowd, do people read his essayist posts on Balegate? I physically cannot bear them.

It has something to do with the fact that these people, even after being corrected, not only persisted, but began abusing those who didn't agree with them.
Is that an acceptable state of affairs, just because it is a football forum?
Would it be acceptable in real life?

Yes, it is crazy, hence my extremem frustration. I made a simple statement explaining the difference between statements of opinion and statements of fact, and I ahve been accused of denying people their right of opinnion.

Really, do you think I should have just dropped it and allowed posters (who were actually factually incorrect) to insult other posters who were either factually correct, or stating a contrary opinion?

If you don't want to read my posts, don't read them...but why why do you feel the need to put the onus onto me, I have to ask you that?