About PL points totals

[SpartanSpur]

This is really starting to grind my gears. The context is totally different.

Poch's 70 points is less than AVB's 72, I get it. I also get that 3rd place with CL is better than 5th.

Points totals will be ever decreasing as the 'lesser' teams in the league are getting better and better. There are only so many points to go around. Leicester's 81 points would have only won the league in 6 out of the 24 seasons in PL history, and it was comfortable. I get everyone is in full on depression mode after yesterday and rightly so, but this shouldn't be ignored IMHO.

Yes, Chelsea, City, Utd and Liverpool had poor seasons, but that isn't solely due to lack of quality. City reached the last 4 of the CL and Liverpool look set to win the EL, so they are pretty handy on their day. You just can't turn up every week with the better players and win anymore. You have to earn it every week. It's why Leicester did so well, coaching, effort and spirit has taken over from the chequebook. It is also why we did so well until our recent meltdown. If we can capture the spirit of our middle 30 games in the next season we will be up there again next season, regardless of whether you think we were lucky to get CL with 70 due to past seasons (spoiler: we did earn it).

To put Chelsea's league performance in perspective even the not so mighty Spurs have exceeded their 50 points tally in 9 of the last 10 seasons. Chelsea still reached the last 16 of Europe, and took 6 points off of second placed Arsenal. They have the quality but did not have the graft outside of the big games, and this beefed up league will find you out. It's no surprise to see West Ham and Southampton take so many big scalps, they have the work rate but now also ever increasing quality. City, Utd, Liverpool, etc have struggled to adapt to the increased competition as much as anything, they have not all just has a season off, they have been caught out.

Our head to head against the top teams has been strong this year, our ability to win against the lesser teams has also been superior to most. We have a strong base to build on for next season, but its clear that some squad strengthening and experience is required. We may finish below all the returning teams next season but it's far from a given, and it's certainly not because we got lucky by finishing 3rd with just 70 points.

 

[Dougal]

You're the one who started a thread about it...

 

[SpartanSpur]

You're the one who started a thread about it...

Better?

 

[olliec]

Could of been 76 points in total if the players didn't give up after the Chelsea game. You could see after that game the players were not the same for both Southampton and Newcastle and the way the media were all against us and every other premier league team. Once it was impossible to win the league the players just completely gave up for the last two games, which we would probably win quite comfortably if the title chase was still on.

 

[Dougal]

Better?

Not really, my post makes less sense now!

 

[SpartanSpur]

Could of been 76 points in total if the players didn't give up after the Chelsea game. You could see after that game the players were not the same for both Southampton and Newcastle and the way the media were all against us and every other premier league team. Once it was impossible to win the league the players just completely gave up for the last two games, which we would probably win quite comfortably if the title chase was still on.

I think we can all see 70 has been the bare minimum value for our season based on what we have seen. It's hard to see this when the Arsenal hoodoo struck again alongside an abysmal finish but unless the players end up taking a massive mental hit from this I think you'd be mad to completely write us off and expect all the other teams to start banging in 75+ points seasons immediately next season. Personally I think we'll be up there competing at the very least.

Also I think it's clear to everyone that squad depth and discipline also played a big part in the meltdown...

 

[olliec]

On a positive note at least Wenger will stay for another season!

 

[eddiebailey]

On a positive note at least Wenger will stay for another season!

How is that a positive when they have finished above us every season he has been in charge?

 

[olliec]

How is that a positive when they have finished above us every season he has been in charge?

The only reason they finished above us this season is because the players gave up after the Chelsea game. We lost to both Southampton and a relegated Newcastle. You could see the players hearts were not in it anymore. If Arsenal are happy to finish above us every season and call it a successful season than so be it. We have bigger fish to fry like trying to win the PL title! Our team is young dynamic and will only get better. With Wenger in charge they won't buy anyone and the fans will moan again next year like they did this year. Take away all the draws we had at the beginning of the season while our team were settling and we would of won the title this year. I am quietly confident that next year we will be up there challenging again while Arsenal fans moan at Wenger for not doing anything in the summer.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I remember all the shit I took for posting the same general sentiment during the arguments over whether Sherwood was good or shit. It's fun to be a Spurs fans, isn't it. Total points is a relative, not an absolute concept.

 

[rich75]

Ignore points, they're irrelevant. Only thing that counts it position.

 

[eddiebailey]

The only reason they finished above us this season is because the players gave up after the Chelsea game. We lost to both Southampton and a relegated Newcastle. You could see the players hearts were not in it anymore. If Arsenal are happy to finish above us every season and call it a successful season than so be it. We have bigger fish to fry like trying to win the PL title! Our team is young dynamic and will only get better. With Wenger in charge they won't buy anyone and the fans will moan again next year like they did this year. Take away all the draws we had at the beginning of the season while our team were settling and we would of won the title this year. I am quietly confident that next year we will be up there challenging again while Arsenal fans moan at Wenger for not doing anything in the summer.

There are 38 games in a Premiership season and you have to play every one of them. League positions don't lie. Wenger did it to us again. You might not call that much of a success, but what does that mean we have achieved? Less them that is for sure. Hope for the future is fine, but it does not fill a trophy shelf. Spurs might launch a title bid next season, or we might finish outside the Champions League places, it really could go either way. But only a fool would bet against Arsenal under Wenger finishing in the top four. Arsenal fans only moan because they are used to a level of success that we can only dream about. Fans get complacent and unrealistic that way, ask Harry. But Wenger leaving Arsenal would be as disastrous for them as Fergie retiring at United.

 

[Gbspurs]

How is that a positive when they have finished above us every season he has been in charge?

Because they aren't improving. You sit still long enough and you start going backwards. It will happen to them, it's just a case of when.

I'd rather be is than them at the moment. We have the Golden boot winner, young player of the year, 4 players in team of the year, a highly regarded progressive manager and a highly regarded youth set on the back of a season where we challenged for the title longer than anyone else but fell away.

Them making their traditional late run won't change the fact they aren't moving forward.

 

[jezz]

Because they aren't improving. You sit still long enough and you start going backwards. It will happen to them, it's just a case of when.

I'd rather be is than them at the moment. We have the Golden boot winner, young player of the year, 4 players in team of the year, a highly regarded progressive manager and a highly regarded youth set on the back of a season where we challenged for the title longer than anyone else but fell away.

Them making their traditional late run won't change the fact they aren't moving forward.

Let's not forget Arse were top and expected to romp it.
They bottled it while we are improving.

 

[SpartanSpur]

Because they aren't improving. You sit still long enough and you start going backwards. It will happen to them, it's just a case of when.

I'd rather be is than them at the moment. We have the Golden boot winner, young player of the year, 4 players in team of the year, a highly regarded progressive manager and a highly regarded youth set on the back of a season where we challenged for the title longer than anyone else but fell away.

Them making their traditional late run won't change the fact they aren't moving forward.

THIS. Every pundit under the sun had us finishing 5th or lower, most 6th/7th, we all knew 4th was going to be a massive ask.

Many (and myself FWIW) had Arsenal down to win the thing.

We achieved our goal and then some by sealing automatic group phase. That is progress.

They were top on NYD and ended up scraping 2nd on the last day. We sustained an attempt to win that trophy longer than them.

I don't understand why some people are keen to keep piling on the depression. Our end to the season was awful, and does raise questions over our progress mentally, but don't ignore the fact we made some big waves this season.

 

[SpartanSpur]

There are 38 games in a Premiership season and you have to play every one of them. League positions don't lie. Wenger did it to us again. You might not call that much of a success, but what does that mean we have achieved? Less them that is for sure. Hope for the future is fine, but it does not fill a trophy shelf. Spurs might launch a title bid next season, or we might finish outside the Champions League places, it really could go either way. But only a fool would bet against Arsenal under Wenger finishing in the top four. Arsenal fans only moan because they are used to a level of success that we can only dream about. Fans get complacent and unrealistic that way, ask Harry. But Wenger leaving Arsenal would be as disastrous for them as Fergie retiring at United.

I'm confused:

So you are saying us getting 3rd isn't an achievement, but 11 years of finishing in the CL without a genuine title challenge is something we can only dream of?

They expect more because they have more recent success, but had a better season than us by achieving the status quo while we broke new ground, just because they earned more points over 38 games? Did Man Utd have a better season than West Ham then?

Arsenal fans are unrealistic for wanting to push on, but we shouldn't be hopeful following tangible progress. Were Chelsea fans unrealistic for expecting much higher than 10th this season?

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying as I think this team warrants silverware too (jealous of Liverpool today) but there are some contradictions there.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Ignore points, they're irrelevant. Only thing that counts it position.

You Sir talk a lot of sense.

This is exactly the scenario that future seasons should be viewed. With the near hundred million TV share money going to each club it really pulls each club closer together so that sponsorship, and ground capacity is almost (but not totally) irrelevant as far as generating transfer funds go.

I think a read that WH had tabled a near thirty million pound bid for two players (with more to come), and no way would they be doing this were it not for the TV money. The pond is getting smaller and the fish bigger, and though points do make prizes the total points won is irrelevant so long as it's one more than second place.

 

[guy]

Imagine if we started and ended the season properly. 3 points from 18 was it? (first 3 and last 3 games)