Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

thebenjamin · Dec 26, 2022

I just read that in the 6 seasons since we signed Davinson Sanchez - who has been an unequivocal failure - we've signed 2 centre backs. And one of them was Joe Rodon. So basically in replacing Vertonghen and Alderweireld we have signed Cristian Romero.

How can we possibly expect to have a serious football team? How can you judge any manager under these conditions?

delawarespur · Dec 26, 2022

There are two choices, either back the current manager and his philosophy 100% or get a longer term focused manager (preferably not Poch). If the ownership have no intention to back Conte with the type of signings he wants/money he wants, there’s no point in wasting any time in ending this. Which would be a tragedy I might add because I will always be on side of investing in the current manager unless there are drastic issues. And my position is only strengthened by the fact the current manager has proven his philosophy is hugely successful if supported. Not to mention that his future is probably linked with Kane’s. It should really be obvious to the board that they have to back Conte completely. What’s the point of the best training ground and stadium in Europe if we’re worried about the type of player the manager requires and don’t have enough financial clout to back any type of manager/signing. Surely the point of these things is to be able to spend more and not have to worry about player resale value etc. That’s the most confusing thing about all of this. If money isn’t the issue, why is the club reluctant to back Conte’s vision with the type of player he wants? Surely if and when Conte leaves we just have more money to buy players that better fit the club’s vision? And then it all comes back to why hire Conte in the first place and then drag your feet when he asks for specific profiles that may not fit the club policy???

Albertbarich · Dec 26, 2022

I know this isn't strictly the correct thread but the situation very much effects Conte.

Son has been bad to dreadful all season and when him and or Kane aren't on form any manager we have automatically struggles.

If sonny was in his usual form I reckon our fourth place looks a hell of a look more convincing.

Blake Griffin · Dec 26, 2022

Albertbarich said:
I know this isn't strictly the correct thread but the situation very much effects Conte.

Son has been bad to dreadful all season and when him and or Kane aren't on form any manager we have automatically struggles.

If sonny was in his usual form I reckon our fourth place looks a hell of a look more convincing.

a good manager should be able to put a system and play style in place that isn't totally reliant on the individual quality of one or two players.

and it's not like son's been pissing away gilt-edged chances, he's just not pulling top corners out of a hat like he was last season.

TPdYID · Dec 26, 2022

I struggle to understand the concept of a player with re-sell potential in a spurs context. If that has been our model over the years, how many players have we signed whereby we’ve sold to get our money (or near to) back?

Bergwijn aside, (and technically we sold at a loss), what other players have we taken a gamble on, to then benefit from player re-sell value?

mil1lion · Dec 26, 2022

His teams have typically played a lot better than we are this season. Even our last few months of last season were far better. We still have moments in games but it's just not clicking consistently. Today felt the same as the rest of the season, slow and sloppy first half and better second. The character is there at least but the quality really needs to improve. Too often players heavy touches let them down and that isn't down to Conte. The only defence today is that we had 3 first team players out and we have 3 positions we need to improve, so really only half a first team of the level we need.

Albertbarich · Dec 26, 2022

Blake Griffin said:
a good manager should be able to put a system and play style in place that isn't totally reliant on the individual quality of one or two players.

and it's not like son's been pissing away gilt-edged chances, he's just not pulling top corners out of a hat like he was last season.

Two parts to that.

Firstly yes Sonny hasn't been getting chances but his hold up play has also gone to pieces, his passing is off and in general he has been one of our worst players at times.

Secondly , yeah you're right a good manager should be that way however every manager we have had for the past few years has been totally reliant on them. Due to the clubs refusal to buy a backup for Kane until the summer we haven't had a choice but to play them and now Conte if he's lucky and that hasn't been often he has 4 people competing for three spots because I don't care who the manager is , Gil and Lucas are never going to threaten Sonny's starting place

We're fourth by the way so we are coping without Sonny's goals but people are now unhappy with the style of play etc. Well do we honestly think if he had played Gil instead of Son and maybe Sanchez instead of Dier we would have played better? Come on. Conte could be the lovechild of Ferguson and Guardiola and he still isn't getting much more out of the pitiful alternatives he has.

This all comes down to backing the manager. Who is getting more of a tune out of this lot? Remember how bad they were before Conte came in?

rossdapep · Dec 26, 2022

Blake Griffin said:
a good manager should be able to put a system and play style in place that isn't totally reliant on the individual quality of one or two players.

and it's not like son's been pissing away gilt-edged chances, he's just not pulling top corners out of a hat like he was last season.

No but Son and Kane occupy two very important positions and if they aren't firing of course it'll have an effect, especially if we have no options off the bench.

We've hardly had all 5 of Lucas, Kane, Son, Richarlison and Deki available this season so we've not seen the possibility of changing a player who isnt on it.

Also, if Son receives the ball but chooses to run down a blind alley then is that the coach's fault or the players?

Conte doesn't have the benefit of hauling an ineffective player off.

A lot of people want us to press and be on the front foot but that's no longer Son or Kane game.

I, however, do think we need to find a player who is going to push Son on that side cause when he's off it, which he has largely been this year. we several suffer.

That may improve with better WBs and CBs but we've basically been dreadful on the right side this season when Deki was out. Add Son's poor form and limited options and the load goes onto Kane, it's not the system.

To be fair though, Bentancur has stepped up and is chipping in. Whilst, Deki has been a huge miss.

Get Conte better WBs and another attacking option and people will realise the system isn't the issue or reliant on one or two individuals.

People like to complain about Emerson and his lack of quality, which is fair because he gets into some fantastic positions but wastes them. A better WB and those opportunities don't go to waste.

A better reserve alternative to Son or Deki and more attacking players chip in.

GutBucket · Dec 26, 2022

Love Conte but something needs to be done about slow starts. Start well and bring momentum to your side, works well for Arsenal.

Albertbarich · Dec 26, 2022

rossdapep said:
No but Son and Kane occupy two very important positions and if they aren't firing of course it'll have an effect, especially if we have no options off the bench.

We've hardly had all 5 of Lucas, Kane, Son, Richarlison and Deki available this season so we've not seen the possibility of changing a player who isnt on it.

Also, if Son receives the ball but chooses to run down a blind alley then is that the coach's fault or the players?

Conte doesn't have the benefit of hauling an ineffective player off.

A lot of people want us to press and be on the front foot but that's no longer Son or Kane game.

I, however, do think we need to find a player who is going to push Son on that side cause when he's off it, which he has largely been this year. we several suffer.

That may improve with better WBs and CBs but we've basically been dreadful on the right side this season when Deki was out. Add Son's poor form and limited options and the load goes onto Kane, it's not the system.

To be fair though, Bentancur has stepped up and is chipping in. Whilst, Deki has been a huge miss.

Get Conte better WBs and another attacking option and people will realise the system isn't the issue or reliant on one or two individuals.

People like to complain about Emerson and his lack of quality, which is fair because he gets into some fantastic positions but wastes them. A better WB and those opportunities don't go to waste.

A better reserve alternative to Son or Deki and more attacking players chip in.

To be fair I think Richarlison was brought in to challenge Sonny but Conte didn't seem to have the appetite to drop him and Deki was sacrificed instead.

The notion that these players are still suffering due to coaching when the bloke has just won Serie A before coming here whilst they were ambling in mid table is ridiculous

ajspurs · Dec 26, 2022

mil1lion said:
His teams have typically played a lot better than we are this season. Even our last few months of last season were far better. We still have moments in games but it's just not clicking consistently. Today felt the same as the rest of the season, slow and sloppy first half and better second. The character is there at least but the quality really needs to improve. Too often players heavy touches let them down and that isn't down to Conte. The only defence today is that we had 3 first team players out and we have 3 positions we need to improve, so really only half a first team of the level we need.

The transformation from last seasons performances to this seasons have been so strange though. I remember last season saying numerous times that I could see the 'Conte effect' in the passing, the movement, the patterns etc. I've so rarely felt that this season. One of the standout times was actually maybe the first 25-30 minutes or so away to Brighton where we looked good and effective with the ball at our feet and as an attacking unit. So strange how we can rarely bring it out.

wrd · Dec 26, 2022

I think once the world cup comes around, month off to reassess and tweak things then things will be different

Spurs 1961 · Dec 26, 2022

Can’t blame Conte. He’s only the manger. He’s only been here for five minutes. Give him the time that day the Newcastle manger has had, the rope players that Newcastle had before, their state of the are facilities and years of steady improvement and I am sure he will have us playing excitingly successful attacking football.

poor Conte. Change the ownership, the board, the whole squad and he will lead us to untold glory. I feel so sorry for him on a paltry £15million a year struggling with such a lowly club as Tottenham. As he is always saying we are well beneath him and he is doing us such a great favour by working for us. In Conte the future is assured …

Rout-Ledge · Dec 26, 2022

I’m willing to disregard today’s game but I’m not giving Conte the benefit of the doubt because he’s Antonio Conte anymore. I’ll judge him the same as any other manager - be it Jose, Nuno, Mason - whoever.

He’s been here long enough now to get us playing consistently solid football ( we were for a time, at the end of last season - and we’ve only added to the squad since then). I’m bored with the whole ‘he’s a winner’ narrative. That’s a good reason to hire him, but he’s been here a year now. He needs to start getting us playing much better, and it needs to happen immediately.

DanielJohnCosta · Dec 26, 2022

Spurs 1961 said:
Can’t blame Conte. He’s only the manger. He’s only been here for five minutes. Give him the time that day the Newcastle manger has had, the rope players that Newcastle had before, their state of the are facilities and years of steady improvement and I am sure he will have us playing excitingly successful attacking football.

poor Conte. Change the ownership, the board, the whole squad and he will lead us to untold glory. I feel so sorry for him on a paltry £15million a year struggling with such a lowly club as Tottenham. As he is always saying we are well beneath him and he is doing us such a great favour by working for us. In Conte the future is assured …

Eddie Howe has been at Newcastle same time as conte?

Trotter · Dec 26, 2022

DanielJohnCosta said:
Eddie Howe has been at Newcastle same time as conte?

He was being sarcastic.
Basically he is saying that Conte has been given significant tools and is doing a lot worse job than someone with significantly weaker squad, supporters are just making up excuse after excuse for him, despite being paid a fortune, and he is not wrong.
Conte is being made to look very very ordinary at the moment

JUSTINSIGNAL · Dec 26, 2022

H-SF said:
Can we please stop talking about mentality. We have most points won from losing positions - mentality is no issue. In terms of playing through pressure I agree we struggle but that is moreso due to quality. Jose was fundamentally flawed as a coach relative to the likes of Klopp Pep etc when he joined us. He's not very a good manager anymore. Conte is a much better manager, our buildup is good (in terms of structure) our low block is a lot better and our attacking structure in the final third is good. However we do not control the game enough at even game states. Under Jose we could not turn around defecits like you said because our settled possession patterns in the opponents half were non existent, so even if we had the ball when opponents sat deep late in games we couldn't create anything. With Conte it feels different because the structure is good so we actually create when we have the ball. However at the moment we only have lots of the ball when we are chasing the game - thus we only look good whilst chasing. The solution is for us to have more possession in all stages of the match and whilst this would be aided by technically superior defenders and wing backs it would also be aided by us pressing high more often and forcing turnovers. If the latter doesn't happen the unfortunate truth is that we will never be able to compete with City and even new gen Arsenal regardless of personnel.

Very good points.

rossdapep · Dec 26, 2022

H-SF said:
Can we please stop talking about mentality. We have most points won from losing positions - mentality is no issue. In terms of playing through pressure I agree we struggle but that is moreso due to quality. Jose was fundamentally flawed as a coach relative to the likes of Klopp Pep etc when he joined us. He's not very a good manager anymore. Conte is a much better manager, our buildup is good (in terms of structure) our low block is a lot better and our attacking structure in the final third is good. However we do not control the game enough at even game states. Under Jose we could not turn around defecits like you said because our settled possession patterns in the opponents half were non existent, so even if we had the ball when opponents sat deep late in games we couldn't create anything. With Conte it feels different because the structure is good so we actually create when we have the ball. However at the moment we only have lots of the ball when we are chasing the game - thus we only look good whilst chasing. The solution is for us to have more possession in all stages of the match and whilst this would be aided by technically superior defenders and wing backs it would also be aided by us pressing high more often and forcing turnovers. If the latter doesn't happen the unfortunate truth is that we will never be able to compete with City and even new gen Arsenal regardless of personnel.

ok, mentality from losing positions or in moments where the team needs to come through, is not a major issue. You're right.

However, I'm talking about approach to the start of a game. The players seem to need a 'shock' or a talking to before they start to impose themselves on a game.

Last season under Conte, we went behind to Newcastle at home and that woke the team up as they responded immediately, and we are seeing that often.

I don't think it's a tactical thing as you wouldn't see a response immediately (same as under Jose where there was little difference) but we ARE, which means the approach and mindset at the start of games is wrong.

Stamford · Dec 26, 2022

No other serious club has these CB options. None.

changing managers just opens up these same convos in a years time. People need to learn from this now, it's happened a few times

murichej · Dec 26, 2022

I'm reading conte likes dier

Is he a fuckking moron?

I dont enjoy how we play. I dont enjoy his comments.

Only thing i SHOULD be enjoying is that conte is our manager. ffs. Whats the point??

If he really likes dier then we are doomed

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