ENIC...

PT · May 5, 2021

Lighty64 said:
really looking forwards to an answer on this as no one has replied to it on the 2 or 3 occasions I've asked in whatever thread.

1, if the ESL was allowed, and the teams in it were allowed to stay in their leagues, how the hell would you have expected us to be able to compete with the other 5 teams, if we turned the invite down?

the 12 teams involved wanted to break away from those greedier bastards UEFA. if it happened the CL, and Europa would have no value and would in the end turn out to be inconvenient fixtures, due to sponsorship and TV companies pulling the plug.

2, if the ESL was allowed, and the teams in it weren't allowed to stay in their leagues, and we never accepted the invite, how would we survive?

we would never be able to clear our debts, we would never be able to pay the wages needed to keep or buy players.

don't get me wrong I am so happy it hasn't happened and really hope it never does because it would affect the whole of football, right down to the grass routes

I’m not sure football per se would cease to be, which is the fundamental argument against ESL. The qualifying clubs as well as the resident clubs will still scour the leagues for players, based on vfm. Money would still flow down the ladder. Clubs left playing in a smaller Premier league would find a new pecking order, should the resident clubs in the ESL be booted out. This actually won’t happen btw as the legalities of imposing such a draconian “bite yer nose of to spite yer face” penalty would be contested in courts for years.
The noisiest protesters appear to be the UEFA cartel which would lose its golden goose, the UCL. Europa would also cease to be. Maybe a new trophy would arise like a phoenix to accommodate the European league winners, runners up etc, kind of like a practise ESL competition.

Lighty64 · May 5, 2021

PT said:
I’m not sure football per se would cease to be, which is the fundamental argument against ESL. The qualifying clubs as well as the resident clubs will still scour the leagues for players, based on vfm. Money would still flow down the ladder. Clubs left playing in a smaller Premier league would find a new pecking order, should the resident clubs in the ESL be booted out. This actually won’t happen btw as the legalities of imposing such a draconian “bite yer nose of to spite yer face” penalty would be contested in courts for years.
The noisiest protesters appear to be the UEFA cartel which would lose its golden goose, the UCL. Europa would also cease to be. Maybe a new trophy would arise like a phoenix to accommodate the European league winners, runners up etc, kind of like a practise ESL competition.

football might survive I agree, but the money we would need per season would be very hard to achieve. the TV deal wouldn't cover players wages and extras like it does today, sponsors money would drop, and even prize money would become very little in value. crowds most probably drop, and the final nail would be either Levy would have to suffer big time lowering ST's and matchday prices, because the product would be so damaged that supporters will not pay anything to see a top of the table clash v Burnley

shelfboy68 · May 5, 2021

Lighty64 said:
so you think after making a 150m loss, you expect them to be able to compete in the market? other clubs around the world will be affected by it too, which means clubs will have difficulty in selling their deadwood. we need to sell our deadwood to make room for anyone new. the trouble with selling our deadwood is the wages they are on, cannot be paid by the clubs that might want them. I know you'll blame Levy for his asking price, but we also need to get some income to have a chance of buying.

You want an owner that spunks their own (dirty) money like City and Chelsea do, well there aren't many out there that will do that especially after paying a massive take-over fee, that's why that rich mob tried buying Newcastle for near on 2b less than what it would cost to buy us, when that 2b could make them be even stronger than City

Good luck Newcastle then I say.

ardiles · May 5, 2021

Lighty64 said:
I'm not disagreeing with the above, but the big difference was when Lampard was sacked Tuchel was available, unfortunately for us when we sacked Poch, Mourinho was available.

It’s been reported that Mourinho had been targeted by Levy for a very long time. So it could be that Poch was sacked at that point of time because Mourinho was available? ?‍

Mourinho took over almost immediately after Poch was sacked, so levy might have been in discussions with Jose for a while before sacking Poch.

If Mourinho wasn’t available at that time, levy might have delayed sacking Poch until Mourinho or another suitable candidate was available. That’s just my guess anyway.

Trix · May 5, 2021

JCRD said:
I keep hearing that Clescum are going to have, I think three, fans sitting on their board meetings and rotated annually. Think its a great idea and would be interested if other clubs start doing this.

It's a good idea and definitely a compromise going in the right direction. I doubt they will have any voting rights though, and even if they do Roman just does what he wants there anyway.

Like I say though it's a start.

Hoddle&Waddle · May 5, 2021

Metalhead said:
4 billion?

Yeah I had a little chuckle at that, more like 2.

joelstinton14 · May 5, 2021

Frustrating that the supporters group have declined to meet Levy again. There’s no chance of anything getting resolved at the moment. All it does is play into Daniels hands as well leaving suporters out in the cold. If you don’t like what Levy has to say we still need to be at the table so to speak.

SecretLemonadeDrinker · May 5, 2021

BujuBanton said:
i appreciate your points, and maybe long-term it will pay off but levy has already said that our spending is limited because of our stadium debt

I don’t believe that he has said anything of the sort. If you disagree, I’d appreciate it if you can find me the quote.

Of course taking on debt of such magnitude necessitates financial discipline. The banks will have demanded as much. There will probably be a requirement for Spurs to maintain a healthy cash balance, for instance, and we will have to service the debt and spend within our means. But when our means have increased by some £90m more per annum than the cost of servicing the debt, that’s easy enough to achieve.

In one sense, therefore, you are correct. Our spending on transfers and wages will indeed be limited by the financial discipline that the magnitude of the debt necessitates. But that limit will nevertheless be far higher in the new stadium than it was without the debt but still in the old stadium.

vegassd · May 5, 2021

BujuBanton said:
i appreciate your points, and maybe long-term it will pay off but levy has already said that our spending is limited because of our stadium debt

Isn't the long term the thing we should be most interested in?

I would also argue that our spending is limited primarily by our revenues. If revenues are small then spending will always be small. If rivals are spending big it follows that we also need to spend big. Therefore increasing revenues is a must if we want to compete with rivals long term. Would you agree with that?

My reading of the situation is that we had a number of years of scrimping and saving in order to achieve a very healthy financial situation. That meant that when we borrowed money for the stadium it could be done on good terms and not be the "weight" that you and many see it to be.

I believe/hope that the club has already done the hard yards in terms of tight finances and we now have the facilities that put us up there with our domestic rivals, in terms of infrastructure at least. Those will be around for the long term.

Lighty64 · May 5, 2021

shelfboy68 said:
Good luck Newcastle then I say.

well unless you've had your head stuck in the sand for nearly a year, their bid didn't get past the test due to whatever happens in their country ie..... abu Dubai (SP)

if you are waiting for an owner like City or Chelsea I'm afraid you'll have to stick to dreaming because that kind of takeover won't be happening for a very long time, and won't be us if that kind of owner invests in a PL team again. so if you can't wait for the stadium to do the right thing I wish you luck with whatever football team you decide to join, or whatever sport you decide to follow

Lighty64 · May 5, 2021

ardiles said:
It’s been reported that Mourinho had been targeted by Levy for a very long time. So it could be that Poch was sacked at that point of time because Mourinho was available? ?‍

Mourinho took over almost immediately after Poch was sacked, so levy might have been in discussions with Jose for a while before sacking Poch.

If Mourinho wasn’t available at that time, levy might have delayed sacking Poch until Mourinho or another suitable candidate was available. That’s just my guess anyway.

oh I know the history and I agree about what you have posted

sausage · May 5, 2021

Timberwolf said:
You promised me you wouldn't bring that up sausage...

But c'mon some literally are facts. We repeatedly left signings until deadline day, screwing up the start of our season as our signings had no pre-season and we were without key players. That's happened about 3 or 4 times and is undeniable. We didn't sign Moutinho because we faffed around and didn't get the paperwork through on time. The entire Sissoko deal. Refusing to sell countless players when they are clearly not wanted. How can these things be denied?

I'm generally a Levy defender but these things all add up to paint a pretty clear picture of his weaknesses.

That's been explained by DL before though - there are two scenarios that contradict:
- We don't get our 'first choice'
- We don't sign them at the start of pre-season

I recall one of the DL quotes (maybe THST minutes) explained that it's like a chain in property - clubs don't want to sell until they've replaced, and the first choice/best players often are at the end of the chain.

VDV would never have happened at any time other than last minute. I think DL knows that clubs get all their business out of the way, then panic last minute and often that allows unobtainable players to be obtainable last minute. Just how it is.

It's very fanciful to take these scenarios and remove all the attributes we don't like, and expect them to still be plausible.

(also, who are the countless players we've refused to sell?)

HodisGawd · May 5, 2021

shelfboy68 said:
Good luck Newcastle then I say.

Grim. If Newcastle get taken over by a murderous regime I certainly do not wish them luck. Whatever you think of Levy, that would be a disaster for us. The Newcastle saga really does prove the "better the devil you know" adage.

Spirit of '61 · May 5, 2021

joelstinton14 said:
Frustrating that the supporters group have declined to meet Levy again. There’s no chance of anything getting resolved at the moment. All it does is play into Daniels hands as well leaving suporters out in the cold. If you don’t like what Levy has to say we still need to be at the table so to speak.

I kind of agree with you but in your heart do you believe that our Daniel is ever going to concede to any of the demands that are likely to be raised?
He will use the opportunity as a PR
exercise & photo op.

As the meeting ends & the supporters tamely file out Mr.Levy is seen smiling broadly as he drops the fans suggestions in the bin..

SecretLemonadeDrinker · May 5, 2021

Spirit of '61 said:
I kind of agree with you but in your heart do you believe that our Daniel is ever going to concede to any of the demands that are likely to be raised?
He will use the opportunity as a PR
exercise & photo op.

As the meeting ends & the supporters tamely file out Mr.Levy is seen smiling broadly as he drops the fans suggestions in the bin..

I don't believe that the Trust are in any mood to take anything tamely.

But what's wrongheaded about their approach is that refusing the meeting allows Levy to remain wholly silent on the matter, as he has done thus far other than the mealy mouthed announcement of our withdrawal from the ESL.

If the club continues to be mealy mouthed or unapologetic in a meeting, the Trust would be able to tell us. If the club was to offer clarifications or justifications, we would be able to judge for ourselves how valid or genuine they are. If the club was to refuse to answer certain questions, we would get to know that too.

We would learn a lot even if the club refused to say a lot. And that would give the Trust greater ammunition.

MassadaTom · May 5, 2021

SecretLemonadeDrinker said:
I don't believe that the Trust are in any mood to take anything tamely.

But what's wrongheaded about their approach is that refusing the meeting allows Levy to remain wholly silent on the matter, as he has done thus far other than the mealy mouthed announcement of our withdrawal from the ESL.

If the club continues to be mealy mouthed or unapologetic in a meeting, the Trust would be able to tell us. If the club was to offer clarifications or justifications, we would be able to judge for ourselves how valid or genuine they are. If the club was to refuse to answer certain questions, we would get to know that too.

We would learn a lot even if the club refused to say a lot. And that would give the Trust greater ammunition.

I would love if someone from inner circle of Trust would explain whot end game is?
They demand Levy to resign - not gonna happen
They demand share ownership - not gonna happen
Let’s presume that’s negotiating strategy as opposed to virtue signaling and moral posturing; What are theirs actually demands?
Do they negotiate something under the table?

shelfboy68 · May 5, 2021

Lighty64 said:
well unless you've had your head stuck in the sand for nearly a year, their bid didn't get past the test due to whatever happens in their country ie..... abu Dubai (SP)

if you are waiting for an owner like City or Chelsea I'm afraid you'll have to stick to dreaming because that kind of takeover won't be happening for a very long time, and won't be us if that kind of owner invests in a PL team again. so if you can't wait for the stadium to do the right thing I wish you luck with whatever football team you decide to join, or whatever sport you decide to follow

Mate unless you had your head stuck in the sand you would have noticed that city have won the league cup beating a pathetic/ shit Tottenham side, they are going to win the league plus potentially a CL.
So it's likely they could be looking at a second treble in two seasons what a fantastic achievement their fan's must be elated.
Yet your happy because whilst our club is pitch side impotent you want the club to do things the right way whatever that is, you must realise that no amount of sustainable effort or preaching is going to stop clubs like this you are in Dreamland if you think that is going to happen.
Just wake up to the reality mate and accept that unless we are bought out where we are at is the level of spurs but with pretty football thrown in.

Drink!Drink! · May 5, 2021

MassadaTom said:
I would love if someone from inner circle of Trust would explain whot end game is?
They demand Levy to resign - not gonna happen
They demand share ownership - not gonna happen
Let’s presume that’s negotiating strategy as opposed to virtue signaling and moral posturing; What are theirs actually demands?
Do they negotiate something under the table?

why would the trust take your advice, at the weekend you told me anyone supporting the 50+1 scheme should go and support a lower league team in Scotland.

you seem completely hostile to anything that stops ENIC having the “freedom” to do what they want. You seem hostile to the notion that football clubs have special social and cultural status. Which means you are hostile to the trust even existing.
please do correct me if that isn’t a fair summary of your views

shelfboy68 · May 5, 2021

HodisGawd said:
Grim. If Newcastle get taken over by a murderous regime I certainly do not wish them luck. Whatever you think of Levy, that would be a disaster for us. The Newcastle saga really does prove the "better the devil you know" adage.

Look I don't get upset with other club buyouts if someone wants to invest and go for the stars why shouldn't they be allowed to.
I understand that you don't like some of these buyers and or owners but they are being allowed to buy club's there isn't much we can do.
Yes sometimes the better the devil you know is true but at the same time sometimes another organisation can be the answer.
Spurs under levy are a club that won't do a "Leeds" because he won't allow it, but at the same time the club will not hit Any heights of success like clubs such as city, utd, Chelsea or Liverpool.

Spirit of '61 · May 5, 2021

SecretLemonadeDrinker said:
I don't believe that the Trust are in any mood to take anything tamely.

But what's wrongheaded about their approach is that refusing the meeting allows Levy to remain wholly silent on the matter, as he has done thus far other than the mealy mouthed announcement of our withdrawal from the ESL.

If the club continues to be mealy mouthed or unapologetic in a meeting, the Trust would be able to tell us. If the club was to offer clarifications or justifications, we would be able to judge for ourselves how valid or genuine they are. If the club was to refuse to answer certain questions, we would get to know that too.

We would learn a lot even if the club refused to say a lot. And that would give the Trust greater ammunition.

You make good points .. its a dangerous game though .Levy is a slick operator as we know.
By sitting down side by side with him The Trust will automatically be seen to add legitimacy to his rule ..and be turned potentially to no more than useful idiots ...unfortunately.

Forums

What's new

Matches

Sportsbook

Members

ENIC...

North Stand behind Pat's goal.

I believe

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

The ghost of Johnny Cash

I believe

I believe

?

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Similar threads