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Match Threads Arsenal vs Spurs - Match Thread - Day 28

Match Prediction

  • Spurs to Win

    Votes: 116 58.9%
  • Spurs to Lose

    Votes: 39 19.8%
  • Score Draw (After leading)

    Votes: 29 14.7%
  • Score Draw (Coming from behind)

    Votes: 13 6.6%
  • Goalless Draw

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    197

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,464
17,226
And it wouldn't have been much better with Aurier. Not because he's a bad player, but because he's attack-minded. Whoever we played on that flank, Arsenal would have (rightly) targeted it. The only option would have been not to play Bale at all. But given his recent form, you'd have been mad to do so.

So the choice comes down to, do you play a player at RB who's had a run of a few games where he seems to be developing a good partnership with his forward and who is best employed as a wing-back anyway, if you suspect the defence you're up against may leave gaps for you to exploit with that developing partnership; or a link Bale with a player who's just come back from injury and who played three days ago?

Im not Auriers biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination but the difference in quality between him and Doherty is like night and day in both defence and attack. I literally couldnt believe my eyes when i read the team sheet it was that much of a WTF moment.
 

mrlilywhite

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2008
3,176
4,999
The first five minutes was so odd, the front four just jogging and it set the tone. All over the pitch it felt like a friendly, I just don't get the lack of intensity, that isn't Mourinho, even if you tell the players not to close, they should at least sprint to cover space and get the loose ball.

I don't like scapegoats, I haven't knocked Doherty just for the sake of it, but today showed he just isn't a good enough defender. As a RB/LB at a supposed elite club, you cant be beaten 3/4 times in a half, you just can't. And for those bagging Mourinho for bring on Sissoko, they are simply showing up agendas, he had no choice but to shore things up. Knock him for starting Doherty, but not for making the change, he arguable took too long to do it though.
I don't disagree with what you have said here totally, but the amount of times this year we have given up space to attack from a defensive position is totally by design and not attitude. Mourinho has even alluded to it himself on various occasions. If this was his game plan today, then why start two attacking full-backs, along with Bale? Straight away from kick-off you could see what the system was, and also you could see that the personnel was wrong. The actual game was all about rectifying the mistakes he had made before we actually started the game. How many teams in the top half actually play two polar opposite systems?

I've alluded to this before regarding the closing down of space and when we have played this conservative system, we actually do press the space, but we do it in the defensive zone and look to win the ball there. If we were playing a system where we were aggressive, we'd have a high line and look to play the offside, but we'd also be pressing higher up the pitch too, which once won, we'd be attacking from a much better position, where our players can hurt teams. This system isn't designed to be aggressive and it leads to huge gaps where we only have the option of looking for long or direct balls. My opinion and I'll stand by it, is that Jose isn't fit for purpose and unless he consistently starts playing one system where he actually plays to the strengths of the players he chooses, then he'll be judged as the underlying reason why we are failing. I mean it's bloody obvious that if you have a top-end power drill, you don't use it to hammer in nails do you? I'm happy to be proved wrong here, but it's the only conclusion I can honestly garner from what I'm watching, but I'll caveat that by saying that there are a good few players I'd happily shift.
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
But he makes a huge error in most games, as weve seen over the years. He simply cant be trusted.
As does Dier, as has Rodon, as has Toby. The fact of the matter is that the pickin's are pretty slim in central defence. Whoever we choose can make, and has made, mistakes. Singling out Sanchez isn't a good analysis. It's even less good because he's been doing very well of late, albeit in a short span of games. Every defender can make mistakes.
 

TOLBINY

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2019
1,243
2,841
then he’s incapable of motivating them and getting them to follow he game plan. IF his game plan isn’t what we watched. Problem is we’ve now done it against too many teams to give him a pass.
Jose is incapable of motivating them or we have too many players who are incapable of executing the game plan? You think pep will be trying to buy thel ikes of Doherty, Sissoko and Lamela in the summer becuase he sees how they are great players who just need a manager who knows how to motivate them?
 

SpursSince1980

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2011
4,757
14,493
...we need to keep Bale happy and focused. Calling him out isn't going to do a lot.
Where did Jose say ‘the same players were hiding today’? I didn’t catch that in is post match interviews. But, I’m in the US, so maybe it was with a UK media source?
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,413
34,177
what might have been we had started Kane instead of bringing him on after 75 minutes.
 
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riggi

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2008
48,583
105,051
I’ve not watched much football since the virus but is Martin Tyler breathing down the mic just normal now?
 

Dougal

Staff
Jun 4, 2004
60,380
130,341
Now, now. No need for the sarcasm. I am not 100% foisting all the blame on the players, cos of course, the coach has a role to play in every game. But did you see how many misplaced passes there were? How passive Bale and Kane were? How puddled Tanguy looked? How we lost one of our key strikers 16 mins in? They had a rough go of it today. Some were clearly not up for it.

As my cousin just texted me:
’Was bale on qualudes?’

Just a strange game.
Wasn’t a strange game though, was it? It was a familiar game because we’ve seen it several times this season. The players can’t play this way. That’s a shared responsibility for their lack of ability to adapt to it and Mourinho’s insistence on getting them to do it when facing any team that is t scrapping at the bottom. Ultimately he just has to stop asking them to do it because their obviously failure can not then be a reason for him to throw them under the bus. It’s like asking my kids to drive themselves to primary school and then being pissed off it didn’t go well. It’s just not what they do. Might improve further down the line but until then I’ll have to find a more natural solution.

Monday morning is so close right now.
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
I’ve not watched much football since the virus but is Martin Tyler breathing down the mic just normal now?
I find it difficult to pinpoint that particular aspect of his commentary over the sounds of him and Alan Smith masturbating themselves into a near-catatonic state over whichever opposition we happen to be playing that day.
 

ardiles

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
13,228
40,308
But he makes a huge error in most games, as weve seen over the years. He simply cant be trusted.

He used to make errors in the past but he’s improved a lot this season (probably because he’s be playing next to Toby instead of Dier).

He seems more confident in recent times.
 

stormfly

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
4,630
12,115
We have won once at Arsenal since the turn of the millennium or something stupid like that. A few fans got too overconfident for this one. A point would have been great but I never thought we’d win.
 

Colonel_Klinck

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2004
12,732
23,373
Jose is incapable of motivating them or we have too many players who are incapable of executing the game plan? You think pep will be trying to buy thel ikes of Doherty, Sissoko and Lamela in the summer becuase he sees how they are great players who just need a manager who knows how to motivate them?

I think Pep gets a better tune out of our players than Jose. Would we win the league? No, but we'd play to our strengths and attack teams.
 
Jan 31, 2006
2,184
6,495
Last week I watched this man utd team turn up in an away derby at the best most feared team in the league and completely dominate. Today I watched a bunch of complete wimps turn up and play the worst I've ever seen in any match ever.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
22,360
80,564
I don't disagree with what you have said here totally, but the amount of times this year we have given up space to attack from a defensive position is totally by design and not attitude. Mourinho has even alluded to it himself on various occasions. If this was his game plan today, then why start two attacking full-backs, along with Bale? Straight away from kick-off you could see what the system was, and also you could see that the personnel was wrong. The actual game was all about rectifying the mistakes he had made before we actually started the game. How many teams in the top half actually play two polar opposite systems?

I've alluded to this before regarding the closing down of space and when we have played this conservative system, we actually do press the space, but we do it in the defensive zone and look to win the ball there. If we were playing a system where we were aggressive, we'd have a high line and look to play the offside, but we'd also be pressing higher up the pitch too, which once won, we'd be attacking from a much better position, where our players can hurt teams. This system isn't designed to be aggressive and it leads to huge gaps where we only have the option of looking for long or direct balls. My opinion and I'll stand by it, is that Jose isn't fit for purpose and unless he consistently starts playing one system where he actually plays to the strengths of the players he chooses, then he'll be judged as the underlying reason why we are failing. I mean it's bloody obvious that if you have a top-end power drill, you don't use it to hammer in nails do you? I'm happy to be proved wrong here, but it's the only conclusion I can honestly garner from what I'm watching, but I'll caveat that by saying that there are a good few players I'd happily shift.
Confidence and mentality are very important in football, obviously and can be one reason a performance is poor.

However, you are right. When we get the ball in these games, we look utterly clueless in what to do with it, there is a real lack of movement and their is no real pattern (no, not sophisticated strategy lol).

As a coach, you usually drill a system into a team so that when things aren't going well, they can fall back into this. The players don't need to think too much, they don't need to be super confident, they just need to make the same movements you use in training day in day out. The coach needs to be very good at this, of course.

If that doesn't work, the coach needs to make a slight adaption (Allegri is very good at this) just to give the players a solution. It could also be simply down to 'one of those days'. But more often than not a team can fall back onto their system to wrestle control back.

Under Jose, we find ourselves in this situation far too often and look lost for ideas. That's cause they are not being given a proactive based strategy to work off, it's mostly a defensive foundation with an attacking approach built on top of it. Which only works if you have intelligent defenders and midfielders.
 

VegasII

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2008
9,750
16,670
I find it difficult to pinpoint that particular aspect of his commentary over the sounds of him and Alan Smith masturbating themselves into a near-catatonic state over whichever opposition we happen to be playing that day.
1615754069362.jpeg
 

ardiles

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
13,228
40,308
This was an odd game with Lamela playing a big part in it.

Apart from his rabona wonder goal and then his red card, we started the game poorly but improved after Erik came on. Then, remarkably, we played even better after his sending off.

But I agree with many others over here, that based on the overall play, Arsenal deserved the win.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
22,360
80,564
I think Pep gets a better tune out of our players than Jose. Would we win the league? No, but we'd play to our strengths and attack teams.
Yep. Pep has always been a better 'coach' in terms of maximising a system and players within it. Jose has always been better from a one off in game strategy and creating a strong mentality.
 
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