- Sep 2, 2013
- 15,170
- 72,170
Sexy Zen bastardIf no one hears what you say can offence still be taken?
Sexy Zen bastardIf no one hears what you say can offence still be taken?
Anti Semitism isn’t going to go away or even decrease because Tottenham hotspur football club and its supporters stop saying Yid. To be honest, it’s disingenuous to say it would have any impact at all because anti Semitism is a centuries old evil that is rooted in much more than the word “Yid”. baddiel and Dave rich attempt to portray themselves as voices for the Jewish community when the community is as diverse in opinion as any other. You cannot speak on behalf of a community that is not monolithic. The word being reclaimed by thousands and thousands of Jews and non Jews is a message of defiance that anti semites won’t define us (im Jewish), we aren’t weak or voiceless anymore. I would be devastated if there were actions taken to prevent spurs supporters from calling ourselves Yids or Yid Army. Don’t allow the people who use the word for bad to win.
Marc, I agree. I’m not Jewish but have plenty of friends that are. I conversed with a fellow (Jewish) spurs supporter just now; he happens to be married to a woman of Jamaican heritage. He equated the “positive” subversion and (Re)ownership of the word ‘yid’ and ‘nigger’ from those who hurl the abuse; thus diluting the vitriol - it’s the same psychology of the bully and the bullied: neutralise the bully’s ammunition and they end up the fool.Anti Semitism isn’t going to go away or even decrease because Tottenham hotspur football club and its supporters stop saying Yid. To be honest, it’s disingenuous to say it would have any impact at all because anti Semitism is a centuries old evil that is rooted in much more than the word “Yid”. baddiel and Dave rich attempt to portray themselves as voices for the Jewish community when the community is as diverse in opinion as any other. You cannot speak on behalf of a community that is not monolithic. The word being reclaimed by thousands and thousands of Jews and non Jews is a message of defiance that anti semites won’t define us (im Jewish), we aren’t weak or voiceless anymore. I would be devastated if there were actions taken to prevent spurs supporters from calling ourselves Yids or Yid Army. Don’t allow the people who use the word for bad to win.
So is the argument that if we use the word 'Yid' in an affectionate or defiant way, then other fans might use the same word in an abusive way?
If that is the case, then who cares? Those sorts of people are still going to find language to express their rivalry/distaste/hatred of our club. Suppressing a word (which incidentally was never originally offensive in nature) is neither here nor there.
Marc, I agree. I’m not Jewish but have plenty of friends that are. I conversed with a fellow (Jewish) spurs supporter just now; he happens to be married to a woman of Jamaican heritage. He equated the “positive” subversion and (Re)ownership of the word ‘yid’ and ‘nigger’ from those who hurl the abuse; thus diluting the vitriol - it’s the same psychology of the bully and the bullied: neutralise the bully’s ammunition and they end up the fool.
Additionally, given that - for the sake of argument - each club is a corporation, those clubs that have Jewish owners could/would seek to weaken the opposing corporations by any means necessary (Malcolm) , in order to promote their (club) corporation. Chelski and Wet Spam spring to mind. My overriding argument is that we adhere to our traditionally Jewish roots and sing loud & proud:’ we’re yids, and we know we are’. Our players are yiddos.
You can be English/British as well as Jewish. That's a definite fact.Correct I'm not. I'm English and I'm a Spurs fan which is an English club, not a jewish or Yiddish or whatever u would like it to be. Facts
I agree with you - for me it is context and intent.Everytime one of these debates come up in life, I always believe in the context of which a word is used but I see people argue against that and I start to feel bad that maybe I am bias, maybe I'm being a bigot by sticking to my belief in intent of a word vs how it makes people feel and I'm part of the problem. Then every single time the person on the other side either shows their true colours or shows that they only care when it affects them and I feel vindicated once more in my beliefs.
Took my 7 year old nephew to his first game on Saturday and I have to say it’s far easier for me to explain why we sing Yidooo at one of our own than it is to explain why the bloke behind calls Eriksen all manor of abusive words.
The truth is the intent is the most important thing and for me I’m far nose offended at the F’s and C’s than singing the thing I like most is being a yid.
England fans didn’t chant in unison against racism. They chanted against Bulgaria. ‘Bloody foreigners. Coming over here, errr... over there, stealing our racism...’, before heading back to the London Stadium and Stamford Bridge.I don’t want to hijack a really important debate of recent weeks but just found a comment really interesting in the Guardian Football Weekly pod on racism:
I can’t remember the exact words but it was something like “this is the first time England fans have chanted in unison against racism and it’s a watershed moment”. There was also a general theme that racism is a massive problem at the moment (obviously).
It just struck a note as also in 2019 we’re being given the following message:
“Hey you lot who have been chanting in unison against anti-semitism for the best part of 50-years – it’s time to stop. The meaning behind it is a throwback to a more uncivilised time and is no longer necessary.”
I know anti-semitism isn't the issue at the moment and don't want to dilute the debate but just struck me as crazy how messed up everything is that such mixed messages are being sent out.
I don’t want to hijack a really important debate of recent weeks but just found a comment really interesting in the Guardian Football Weekly pod on racism:
I can’t remember the exact words but it was something like “this is the first time England fans have chanted in unison against racism and it’s a watershed moment”. There was also a general theme that racism is a massive problem at the moment (obviously).
It just struck a note as also in 2019 we’re being given the following message:
“Hey you lot who have been chanting in unison against anti-semitism for the best part of 50-years – it’s time to stop. The meaning behind it is a throwback to a more uncivilised time and is no longer necessary.”
I know anti-semitism isn't the issue at the moment and don't want to dilute the debate but just struck me as crazy how messed up everything is that such mixed messages are being sent out.
I think the debate has been done to death.I don’t want to hijack a really important debate of recent weeks but just found a comment really interesting in the Guardian Football Weekly pod on racism:
I can’t remember the exact words but it was something like “this is the first time England fans have chanted in unison against racism and it’s a watershed moment”. There was also a general theme that racism is a massive problem at the moment (obviously).
It just struck a note as also in 2019 we’re being given the following message:
“Hey you lot who have been chanting in unison against anti-semitism for the best part of 50-years – it’s time to stop. The meaning behind it is a throwback to a more uncivilised time and is no longer necessary.”
I know anti-semitism isn't the issue at the moment and don't want to dilute the debate but just struck me as crazy how messed up everything is that such mixed messages are being sent out.
And Yeovil Town by the sounds of it.England fans didn’t chant in unison against racism. They chanted against Bulgaria. ‘Bloody foreigners. Coming over here, errr... over there, stealing our racism...’, before heading back to the London Stadium and Stamford Bridge.