SpartanSpur
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2011
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Have we got a deep enough squad?
- Thread starter Mattspur
- Start date
Caco
Village Idiot
- Nov 2, 2004
- 1,586
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I think there is some rose tinted glasses been worn today. Spurs are up with the best because of Poch, to think that we're not going further because of him is insane.
Our squad of players in the hands of any other manager from the top six would be mid table at best.
Chelsea offloading Morata is evident enough. When was the last time Spurs bought a world superstar? Klinsmann anyone. While Arsenal buy Aubamayang, lacazette, Arshavin, Ozil all in their prime and are linked to Perisic and Rodriguez. Chelsea have just signed Higuain, signed countless top names in their prime, as have Utd, Liverpool pay big money for Kieta, salah and a keeper, don't even get me started on City.
Reality, we're more likely to lose our top players than add to them because we won't pay the wages. TBH, everton are more likely to sign a world class play than spurs.
To even consider that our second string compares with the top six is madness. If you look at the second string of the other teams around us, if they were a first 11 at other clubs they would be a too half team, City's would probably still be top 4. I would see our second string as struggling to stay up.
Our squad of players in the hands of any other manager from the top six would be mid table at best.
Chelsea offloading Morata is evident enough. When was the last time Spurs bought a world superstar? Klinsmann anyone. While Arsenal buy Aubamayang, lacazette, Arshavin, Ozil all in their prime and are linked to Perisic and Rodriguez. Chelsea have just signed Higuain, signed countless top names in their prime, as have Utd, Liverpool pay big money for Kieta, salah and a keeper, don't even get me started on City.
Reality, we're more likely to lose our top players than add to them because we won't pay the wages. TBH, everton are more likely to sign a world class play than spurs.
To even consider that our second string compares with the top six is madness. If you look at the second string of the other teams around us, if they were a first 11 at other clubs they would be a too half team, City's would probably still be top 4. I would see our second string as struggling to stay up.
Locotoro
Prince of Zamunda
- Sep 2, 2004
- 9,453
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For the love of Spurs
Well-Known Member
- Mar 28, 2015
- 3,453
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No, we defiantly lack depth, I am honestly confused what our strategy is in the market.
We can’t afford the best players that Poch wants, so ok why not follow the Dortmund route and hoover the best young talents like Maddison or other Championship players that can become good. After all Poch is a genius with gifted young players.
We don’t do that either. Our players are getting older or some maybe leaving next year. Soon we could be in need of a big overhaul if we want to remain top 4 and yet the chances of this look remote.
From the outside we look like we are going through managed decline that will begin to impact heavily over the next few seasons should we follow our current path. Something just doesn’t seem right.
I also find it unfair how much reliance we place on the like of Kane. If it’s simply the case the stadium is and will hoover up all the money I guess there isn’t much we can do.
We can’t afford the best players that Poch wants, so ok why not follow the Dortmund route and hoover the best young talents like Maddison or other Championship players that can become good. After all Poch is a genius with gifted young players.
We don’t do that either. Our players are getting older or some maybe leaving next year. Soon we could be in need of a big overhaul if we want to remain top 4 and yet the chances of this look remote.
From the outside we look like we are going through managed decline that will begin to impact heavily over the next few seasons should we follow our current path. Something just doesn’t seem right.
I also find it unfair how much reliance we place on the like of Kane. If it’s simply the case the stadium is and will hoover up all the money I guess there isn’t much we can do.
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danielneeds
Kick-Ass
- May 5, 2004
- 24,183
- 48,814
If the money isn’t there then we need to be more creative. You mention Dortmund, and Witsel is currently bossing it for them in CM this season. Apparently he was desperate to come back from China, and Dembele was desperate to go there.... Didn’t take a genius to work out a solution.
eddiebailey
Well-Known Member
- Oct 12, 2004
- 7,475
- 6,748
Fulham in the Cup was as weak a team I can recall us putting out while attempting to field a strong team since Pleat’s time as caretaker. Harry it is true put out much weakened teams in cup competitions, but it was always a case of calibrating to the opposition while resting senior players, running out reserves and looking at youngsters. This line-up just looked desperate: semi-crocks, players we are trying to unload and yes, some promising youngsters, but Poch doesn’t give youth a chance unless he has run out of other options.
We have an excellent first XI, and a perfectly decent bench. But what we don’t seem to have is a bubbling pool of talent below that, or at least if we do it is not being brought through. This to me is emphasised by the fact that the youngsters called up were: a very right-footed RB, played at LWB; a CB, accommodated in a tactically redundant back three; and a DM, played alongside another DM in front of that already overkill back three. This wasn’t a calculated risk, this wasn’t giving youngsters the chance to show what they can do, this was Poch putting out the only 11 warm bodies he sort of semi-trusted.
We have an excellent first XI, and a perfectly decent bench. But what we don’t seem to have is a bubbling pool of talent below that, or at least if we do it is not being brought through. This to me is emphasised by the fact that the youngsters called up were: a very right-footed RB, played at LWB; a CB, accommodated in a tactically redundant back three; and a DM, played alongside another DM in front of that already overkill back three. This wasn’t a calculated risk, this wasn’t giving youngsters the chance to show what they can do, this was Poch putting out the only 11 warm bodies he sort of semi-trusted.
OldBoy68
OldBoy
- Jan 24, 2019
- 57
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Or you possibly conclude that the financial constraints of the new stadium, as immense and as important as it will be in the longer term, have put a very firm ceiling on transfers. Add to that the overrun (diminished gate receipts from Wembley, lost income that would have been projected into this month's kitty, still having to pay the costs of the on-going build) might have made that ceiling a little bit lower still.
I don't accept that the "Powers that be.." are somehow siphoning millions away from our transfer budget. "Our UBO has a yacht and therefore he a c**t which denies me the opportunity of seeing my team win the league". Please.
djee
Well-Known Member
- Nov 24, 2004
- 624
- 1,797
With everyone fit our first 11 and bench look like:
Lloris, Aurier, Toby, Jan, Rose, Winks, Sissoko, Eriksen, Alli, Son, Kane
Gazza, Trippier, Sanchez, Davies, Dier, Lamela and Lucas
So that is w/o: Vorm, KWP, Foyth, Skipp, Wanyama, GKN and Llorente
The players in bold are arguably good enough for the club and have a future (although doubts over the long-term future of Toby and Eriksen). Wanyama's injury problems have deprived us of one of the most effective DMs in the league whilst the form of Trippier is extremely worrying and perhaps his career at Spurs is limited.
Reality is we've been hit hard by long term absences of key personnel at the wrong (and often same) time. The horrific and almost unprecedented fixture congestion in late Nov/Dec through to now has taken its toll on an injury-ravaged squad. The two cup defeats may well have been avoidable had even one of Son, Alli, and Kane been available. You'd find it hard to see LFC successfully navigating this part of the season without Mane, Salah and Firmino.
To the question posed, on paper, the squad is strong and deep enough (both quantity and quality). It isn't, however, one that couldn't be enhanced.
Lloris, Aurier, Toby, Jan, Rose, Winks, Sissoko, Eriksen, Alli, Son, Kane
Gazza, Trippier, Sanchez, Davies, Dier, Lamela and Lucas
So that is w/o: Vorm, KWP, Foyth, Skipp, Wanyama, GKN and Llorente
The players in bold are arguably good enough for the club and have a future (although doubts over the long-term future of Toby and Eriksen). Wanyama's injury problems have deprived us of one of the most effective DMs in the league whilst the form of Trippier is extremely worrying and perhaps his career at Spurs is limited.
Reality is we've been hit hard by long term absences of key personnel at the wrong (and often same) time. The horrific and almost unprecedented fixture congestion in late Nov/Dec through to now has taken its toll on an injury-ravaged squad. The two cup defeats may well have been avoidable had even one of Son, Alli, and Kane been available. You'd find it hard to see LFC successfully navigating this part of the season without Mane, Salah and Firmino.
To the question posed, on paper, the squad is strong and deep enough (both quantity and quality). It isn't, however, one that couldn't be enhanced.
OldBoy68
OldBoy
- Jan 24, 2019
- 57
- 30
This. We don't have the resources to compete on 4 fronts from Nov - Feb. Not many clubs that do.
By the time we play Dortmund we will have played 21 games in 11 weeks. They will have played 13.
We have a thin squad - like most teams except Citeh.
Injuries have absolute hobbled us and exposed how shallow our depth is. Poch, who understand the financial constraints of our stadium delays has made it clear that Top 4 is the priority because of the financial need and the cups will just have to wait. (I'm paraphrasing but I hope you get the point) and as someone pointed out in the Palace thread it bit him in the arse because we don't have a deep enough squad. Doesn't change his logic though.
strader
Well-Known Member
- Apr 29, 2005
- 1,819
- 2,169
Adding to this I believe our shortfall is consistency.
Each player in our squad, on their day could be a match winner.
KWP, not so long he provided 3 assist in one game, however yesterday the hand ball lead to a pen. Tripper likewise will produce top quality assist/delivery however many a times his blunder leads to a goal. Same with dier, can protect the backline however he is prone to the occasional error leading to a goal.
That has been an issue this season, our consistency has just not been there and most errors from players seem to be critical. Adding to this is Vert pen in the NL derby, two pens to wolves however we were fortunate to be 3 ahead otherwise that couthave been points dropped as well.
Each player in our squad, on their day could be a match winner.
KWP, not so long he provided 3 assist in one game, however yesterday the hand ball lead to a pen. Tripper likewise will produce top quality assist/delivery however many a times his blunder leads to a goal. Same with dier, can protect the backline however he is prone to the occasional error leading to a goal.
That has been an issue this season, our consistency has just not been there and most errors from players seem to be critical. Adding to this is Vert pen in the NL derby, two pens to wolves however we were fortunate to be 3 ahead otherwise that couthave been points dropped as well.
wrd
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2014
- 13,603
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I appreciate the front 4 quartet missing is an anomaly but our midfield depth is an absolute shambles. We have Sissoko, Dier who typically are fit and then you have Winks who had 2 seasons injury troubles, it's a miracle we haven't overstretched him and then Wanyama who depending who you ask has gone the way of Sandro and certainly can't be relied on. That isn't good enough and we have no alternative to winks in terms of forward thinking midfielders who primary role isn't defensive responsibility.
Overall it does seem like our squad has declined in quality over the last couple of years. If you compare our squad from the 2016-17 season when we recorded our highest ever Premier League finish of 2nd, we have lost Walker and Dembele, Wanyama is a shadow of the player he was for that season, and Danny Rose has come nowhere recapturing his form on a regular basis. That's four key players who were absolutely instrumental to our success. Unsurprisingly we have declined in all four of those areas with the only direct replacement brought in Serge Aurier, and Winks/Sissoko/(and now) Skipp helping to fill the void left by Dembele/Wanyama. We still have Trippier, Davies, and Dier but undoubtedly we are weaker in these positions than we were previously. We have better options at centre back with Sanchez and Foyth > Wimmer. However our strongest pairing of Vertonghen and Alderweireld remain unchanged. Gazzaniga is a better option as No2 and Llorente is has replaced Janssen with limited success. Lucas Moura is a clear upgrade to our attacking options from 2016, albeit in an area of the pitch that we have retained our best performers.
If we further lose Eriksen and Toby in the summer they will be extremely hard to replace with equivalent quality. That will mean we have lost Walker, Rose (of peak form), Toby, Wanyama (of peak form), Dembele and Eriksen in the space of 2 - 3 years. Any team would struggle to deal with those losses.
If we further lose Eriksen and Toby in the summer they will be extremely hard to replace with equivalent quality. That will mean we have lost Walker, Rose (of peak form), Toby, Wanyama (of peak form), Dembele and Eriksen in the space of 2 - 3 years. Any team would struggle to deal with those losses.
OldBoy68
OldBoy
- Jan 24, 2019
- 57
- 30
I've been taking my happy pills today mate but I am really struggling to see that.
SpartanSpur
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2011
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I couldn't care less what Joe Lewis does with his money.
I've seen plenty of ITK on this site, who all admit to talking and sharing info, who suggest the club/DL has made errors in the transfer market and securing key targets over the last few years. They certainly are more informed than I.
It's hard to argue the progress made under Levy, but a lot of that has also been facilitated by a massively overachieving manager and plucking a world class striker out of our academy. Yes he hired Poch, and built the new training centre, but I don't believe he expected either to be as good as they have been.
Our Chairman himself has many times stated that the stadium would not affect transfer business, I would rather he admit this if that's the case, much like the stadium being delayed until next season.
Funnily enough it is possible to praise and criticise the club, you don't have to hate or love everything about ENIC. Some of us just wish they did a little bit better when it comes to the football side of things...
against the poorer teams our second 11 would be ok and by ok I mean would stay in the premiership but not top 6 for sure, we did ok against Fulham and Palace but the problem of late is that we don't seem to play until we are behind and in most games it was too late to get the result.
also we knew a few of our players cant play 2 games in a row, Mousa, Wanyama, and Lamela as well as some players not having kicked a ball for a season or 2 GKN, Llorente, just imagine what our season would have been like if Sissoko didn't turned his game around.
also we knew a few of our players cant play 2 games in a row, Mousa, Wanyama, and Lamela as well as some players not having kicked a ball for a season or 2 GKN, Llorente, just imagine what our season would have been like if Sissoko didn't turned his game around.
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OldBoy68
OldBoy
- Jan 24, 2019
- 57
- 30
You're dead right but this ain't FM.
Hard to shift injured players yet maintain sufficient cover in the most injurious position (I don't know that's true, but my argument is a bit weak without it
)Sissoko has been a plaster over the gaping wound imo. Love Winks, want Skipp to succeed and Big Vic to come back stronger than ever. But these are mostly maybe's and that's where I agree with you.
OldBoy68
OldBoy
- Jan 24, 2019
- 57
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Surely Poch manages the football side of things - he's never been in a stronger position - If you think that he walks into his Monday meeting and eats shit than you underestimate him. If only the two things were separated, we'd all be happy / unhappy but then there's no debate and SC would be irrelevant
You are absolutely right. I reserved the right to be in despair that another window doesn't go by when our 2 year old squad hasn't had the slightest sprinkle of competition or cover in key areas.
But I also reserve the right to have an objective opinion on whether the current business model (constraints and all) is reasonable or not.
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This is true. Although our recruitment policy overall, over the last ten years or so, has been by and large excellent, it is only the last couple of years where things have gone wrong. Dembele, Lloris, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Eriksen, Dier and Son were all absolute bargains who have been instrumental in getting us where we are today. Immediately prior to that we bought Modric and Bale, also absolute bargains. Prior to that Walker and Rose. Yes there have been some big 'misses' but those 9 more than make up for them. Until now that is. Worryingly, since Son, these kind of acquisitions have started to dry up whilst those players we brought in previously are either fading in influence or being/have been sold. Whether it is the stadium, or the changing market, or whatever, it feels like we've spent the past couple of years coasting and are now I would argue in a period of decline. Whatever happens we will need to do a lot of work in the summer to just get back to where we were.
