Highest Profit ever from an English Football Club

Spurger King · May 1, 2015

Sarsipius said:
Ahh yes there's nothing quite as miserable as people who accept the reality of their situation and enjoy watching football for what it is. A beautiful game.

They're just the worst

Most of our matches over the last two years have not been a joy to watch, and certainly not beautiful.

Sarsipius · May 1, 2015

Spurger King said:
Most of our matches over the last two years have not been a joy to watch, and certainly not beautiful.

Last season was a car crash, that's true. But this season has had some pretty sparks, no? Cracking wins against Chelsea, Arsenal, all the youth coming through?

So much to be excited about for next year, I'd say

Spurger King · May 1, 2015

Sarsipius said:
Last season was a car crash, that's true. But this season has had some pretty sparks, no? Cracking wins against Chelsea, Arsenal, all the youth coming through?

So much to be excited about for next year, I'd say

The wins against Chelsea and Arsenal certainly were great, and I've loved seeing Kane's emergence. As I said in another thread a while ago, watching Kane this season has been akin to living my childhood dreams vicariously through his Roy of the Rovers exploits - now that's something that I'd certainly agree transcends any issues of points and league positions.

However, as much as I'm looking forward to seeing our young players progress, the whole issue I've been making in this thread is that we shouldn't be satisfied with being 6th or thereabouts simply because that's "where we should be". Would you still be excited about next season if you knew we'd not finish any higher than 6th due to the huge discrepancy between our financial power and overall quality compared to Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Oil Money, and United?

That's pretty much what some in this thread have been saying - don't expect us to punch above our weight....know your place Spurs...stop dreaming...admire the well run business Levy has.

My problems with the current state of the club go deeper. We charge more for a season ticket than any other Prem club (if you factor in the CL games included in Arsenal's season tickets). Our own manager has to try and publicly dissuade Levy from following commercial interests by making the club go on far-flung tours. The club's website is one giant merchandise shop. We delay the unveiling of new shirts as late as possible because Levy is trying to squeeze every last penny out of cut-price tops about to become outdated. We sell every top player that comes our way. We have a transfer policy of 'buy young - sell big'. We drag our transfers out as long as possible (both outgoings and incomings) because Levy wants to get the best price, which more often than not results in us missing out on realistic targets or being stuck with overpaid and unwanted players. We get through a new manager every 18 months or so as Levy looks to keep the fans onside with new saviour after new saviour whilst deflecting attention away from the lack of success. Oh and fucking Stubhub.

And for what? The fans are treated like shit over and over again...just faceless consumers to be milked dry. Do you think the same happens to this extent at Villa? Newcastle? Southampton? West Ham? Everton? Nope...not even close. You know what clubs do treat their fans in the same way? Yep...the Arsenals, Liverpools, Uniteds, Chelseas, and Oil Moneys of the prem.

One very important difference between those distinct groups...the latter actually compensate the exploitation of the fans by returning some palpable success. We have the most expensive season tickets to go and see a club that some on here are content to see finishing 6th because that's apparently our level. Don't you see anything wrong with that?

I'm sure the counter argument from some would be "well Spurger...the club needs to make as much money as it can from us fans if we're ever going to be in a position to challenge...don't forget the new stadium", but the merchandising and new stadium is not going to suddenly get us competing with teams that can pay £250k p/w to the world's best players.

Maybe...just maybe...I'd be willing to accept us perpetually being the 'best of the rest' and nothing more if our fans weren't being treated as if they're getting top quality, competitive football taking place at the highest level in Europe. Instead we get far-flung European games against pub team-quality sides I've never even heard of, a group of players that went on holiday 6 weeks before the season ended, the opportunity to see our best players leaving over and over again once they've cut their teeth at a 'stepping stone' club, oh and let's not forget....one trophy and one CL outing in 16 years under Levy.

Hoddle&Waddle · May 1, 2015

jambreck said:
How do you come to the conclusion that I have proved your point? Bizarre!

The point about the academy wasn't that Levy had prioritised it above the first team. Rather that he had simply made improving the academy (beyond all recognition) one of the main priorities. Pochettino only has the option to pluck good players from our academy today precisely because of the work (by John McDermott and others) that Levy set in motion back in 2004.

You said rather more than that. You said that he "hasn't got a clue about football". And once again.......as much as you might disagree with many of Levy's decisions, that doesn't necessarily make you right and him wrong.

Ermm, no I didnt, you just interpreted it that way. Which is why I explained exactly what I meant by that.

Francis Gibbs · May 1, 2015

talkshowhost86 said:
All I can say @Francis Gibbs is that I'm happy for your sake that you aren't a Blackburn fan. Otherwise those few years of overachieving they had would probably have killed you by now.

lol Bradford, Blackburn which obtuse example are you going to throw out next - Wigan they were in the PL now in League 1?
All bear no relation the points made - a proven business approach is to redirect potential profit to invest in your core business, if that's how you chose to run your business and this is the point Levy chooses not to - Why?. Could it be that this is approach is typically not implemented if looking for a buyer and you want to keep profit artificially high.
Also clearly 6th is not our footballing benchmark and whilst an interesting comparison to our financial turnover its no more than that, our footballing benchmark is set by whats achieved on the pitch simple as that and that since we first qualified for the CL is 5th.

Francis Gibbs · May 1, 2015

Sarsipius said:
Crikey, do you think Daniel missed this class when he was studying economics at Cambridge? How on earth did he get that first class degree, eh?

Anyway, Francis, I for one and am looking forward to your company's imminent hostile takeover of Tottenham Hotspur PLC and the brave new era under your supreme guidance in which every managerial appointment (presumably only one every 20 years mind) and player signing will be an unqualified success and we win the title every year.

Bring it on, sir!

But seriously, at what age did you make your first million with this business theory wizardry?

just so you know and ignoring the childish sarcasm, I have a 2:1 in business management so not quite comparable but you dont need a degree in economics to run successful businesses. This is what I do for a living, I buy/invest in failing businesses which I turnaround and then sell for a profit and in terms of business assets/cash I passed the figure you quote many years ago.

talkshowhost86 · May 1, 2015

Francis Gibbs said:
lol Bradford, Blackburn which obtuse example are you going to throw out next - Wigan they were in the PL now in League 1?
All bear no relation the points made - a proven business approach is to redirect potential profit to invest in your core business, if that's how you chose to run your business and this is the point Levy chooses not to - Why?. Could it be that this is approach is typically not implemented if looking for a buyer and you want to keep profit artificially high.
Also clearly 6th is not our footballing benchmark and whilst an interesting comparison to our financial turnover its no more than that, our footballing benchmark is set by whats achieved on the pitch simple as that and that since we first qualified for the CL is 5th.

This is such a simplistic argument it's ridiculous.

You are either suggesting that:

1. Levy hasn't spent any money on the club, which is ridiculous considering the infrastructure he's put in place since he got here; or

2. Even though we've spent all that money, we should be spending even more on players at the same time, which is equally ridiculous as it's just unrealistic unless you've got an oil sheikh in charge...which you may have noticed we haven't.

Anyway I'm now done trying to argue this point with you as you are clearly so blinkered in your anti-Levy position that you won't even try to see the positive things he's done for the club. As I've said many times on here, Levy is flawed in many ways and has made many mistakes which he deserves criticism for.

But if you genuinely think it's realistic that we should be competing with teams that have limitless funds then frankly you are going to be disappointed until we get our own Abramovich.

Ribble · May 1, 2015

Francis Gibbs said:
lol Bradford, Blackburn which obtuse example are you going to throw out next - Wigan they were in the PL now in League 1?
All bear no relation the points made - a proven business approach is to redirect potential profit to invest in your core business, if that's how you chose to run your business and this is the point Levy chooses not to - Why?. Could it be that this is approach is typically not implemented if looking for a buyer and you want to keep profit artificially high.
Also clearly 6th is not our footballing benchmark and whilst an interesting comparison to our financial turnover its no more than that, our footballing benchmark is set by whats achieved on the pitch simple as that and that since we first qualified for the CL is 5th.

Getting 5th effectively means turning over Liverpool every season. Whilst they're a mess like they are now and were before that's fine, but what about when someone who knows what they're doing comes in and properly flexes the considerable extra financial muscle they have over us? Fact of the matter is that if we try and go blow for blow with the teams above us we're getting knocked out every time, so instead we need to be smarter. The way to do that is to find and develop talent to the level we aspire to, but that requires an extensive scouting network (which we're putting together), facilities to train them (which we have) and a good system to bring them through (which we now also seem to have). Now we just need to stick with it and let it do its job.

Francis Gibbs · May 1, 2015

talkshowhost86 said:
This is such a simplistic argument it's ridiculous.

You are either suggesting that:

1. Levy hasn't spent any money on the club, which is ridiculous considering the infrastructure he's put in place since he got here; or

2. Even though we've spent all that money, we should be spending even more on players at the same time, which is equally ridiculous as it's just unrealistic unless you've got an oil sheikh in charge...which you may have noticed we haven't.

Anyway I'm now done trying to argue this point with you as you are clearly so blinkered in your anti-Levy position that you won't even try to see the positive things he's done for the club. As I've said many times on here, Levy is flawed in many ways and has made many mistakes which he deserves criticism for.

But if you genuinely think it's realistic that we should be competing with teams that have limitless funds then frankly you are going to be disappointed until we get our own Abramovich.

none of it is blinkered its simply a different approach to the one that Levy is taking, its not simplistic and it works.
I haven't said once Levy should recklessly spend (anyway the point is about investment not spend) and I haven't said once that we should be above teams with limitless funds.
In simple terms for you, I am saying Levy could if he wanted to invest a greater percentage of the huge profits in the clubs core business with a view to better competing, than we do currently, with the sides above us. Its not about having a shiekh in charge or an Abramovich its about the choices he makes with the profit generated, which by the way very little are directly attributable to his stewardship apart from 2 or three significant transfer successes but most chairman can point to those, fundamentally the profit numbers depend on Sky TV money which he didn't negotiate.
Anyway, to your point, its a bit of a redundant conversation as you clearly dont wish to comprehend the point being made.

Francis Gibbs · May 1, 2015

Ribble said:
Getting 5th effectively means turning over Liverpool every season. Whilst they're a mess like they are now and were before that's fine, but what about when someone who knows what they're doing comes in and properly flexes the considerable extra financial muscle they have over us? Fact of the matter is that if we try and go blow for blow with the teams above us we're getting knocked out every time, so instead we need to be smarter. The way to do that is to find and develop talent to the level we aspire to, but that requires an extensive scouting network (which we're putting together), facilities to train them (which we have) and a good system to bring them through (which we now also seem to have). Now we just need to stick with it and let it do its job.

we need to do a mixture of things to compete, yes as you say develop the scouting net work and yes develop some young talent but we also need invest funds to at least be an attractive alternative for top players.
I fully understand in a direct fight with one of the top 4 we will lose on wages but at the moment even when these players are not courted by the top 4 they choose to stay where they are rather than come to us because we dont make the offer attractive enough but if we prudently invested more funds to this area we could change this.
To your first point yes Liverpool are the weakest of the pack but we have averaged a 5th place finish over the last 6 years so staying above or at least neck and neck with them is far from impossible.

Lilbaz · May 1, 2015

Francis Gibbs said:
none of it is blinkered its simply a different approach to the one that Levy is taking, its not simplistic and it works.
I haven't said once Levy should recklessly spend (anyway the point is about investment not spend) and I haven't said once that we should be above teams with limitless funds.
In simple terms for you, I am saying Levy could if he wanted to invest a greater percentage of the huge profits in the clubs core business with a view to better competing, than we do currently, with the sides above us. Its not about having a shiekh in charge or an Abramovich its about the choices he makes with the profit generated, which by the way very little are directly attributable to his stewardship apart from 2 or three significant transfer successes but most chairman can point to those, fundamentally the profit numbers depend on Sky TV money which he didn't negotiate.
Anyway, to your point, its a bit of a redundant conversation as you clearly dont wish to comprehend the point being made.

If you are saying that instead of building a new training ground and stadium we would have been better off investing in the team. You might be right or wrong. Levy chose not to. We'll never know if it was the right decision or not. But we will have a new training ground and stadium. If he invested in the team and we failed, we would have nothing.

nightgoat · May 1, 2015

Chris12 said:
Technical Director - my bad. If anything helps back up my point more. But he did look over the youngsters for a bit did he not?

Basically he facilitated the transfers of a bunch of our kids to Swindon.

Lilbaz · May 1, 2015

nightgoat said:
Basically he facilitated the transfers of a bunch of our kids to Swindon.

Yet when he was here, the fans that hated him were painting him as this powerful figure behind the scenes that was destroying our club from the inside. How times change.

nightgoat · May 1, 2015

Lilbaz said:
Yet when he was here, the fans that hated him were painting him as this powerful figure behind the scenes that was destroying our club from the inside. How times change.

Well there was his shit-stirring with Richard Keys... He was obviously up to something.

Bus-Conductor · May 1, 2015

Spurger King said:
The wins against Chelsea and Arsenal certainly were great, and I've loved seeing Kane's emergence. As I said in another thread a while ago, watching Kane this season has been akin to living my childhood dreams vicariously through his Roy of the Rovers exploits - now that's something that I'd certainly agree transcends any issues of points and league positions.

However, as much as I'm looking forward to seeing our young players progress, the whole issue I've been making in this thread is that we shouldn't be satisfied with being 6th or thereabouts simply because that's "where we should be". Would you still be excited about next season if you knew we'd not finish any higher than 6th due to the huge discrepancy between our financial power and overall quality compared to Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Oil Money, and United?

That's pretty much what some in this thread have been saying - don't expect us to punch above our weight....know your place Spurs...stop dreaming...admire the well run business Levy has.

My problems with the current state of the club go deeper. We charge more for a season ticket than any other Prem club (if you factor in the CL games included in Arsenal's season tickets). Our own manager has to try and publicly dissuade Levy from following commercial interests by making the club go on far-flung tours. The club's website is one giant merchandise shop. We delay the unveiling of new shirts as late as possible because Levy is trying to squeeze every last penny out of cut-price tops about to become outdated. We sell every top player that comes our way. We have a transfer policy of 'buy young - sell big'. We drag our transfers out as long as possible (both outgoings and incomings) because Levy wants to get the best price, which more often than not results in us missing out on realistic targets or being stuck with overpaid and unwanted players. We get through a new manager every 18 months or so as Levy looks to keep the fans onside with new saviour after new saviour whilst deflecting attention away from the lack of success. Oh and fucking Stubhub.

And for what? The fans are treated like shit over and over again...just faceless consumers to be milked dry. Do you think the same happens to this extent at Villa? Newcastle? Southampton? West Ham? Everton? Nope...not even close. You know what clubs do treat their fans in the same way? Yep...the Arsenals, Liverpools, Uniteds, Chelseas, and Oil Moneys of the prem.

One very important difference between those distinct groups...the latter actually compensate the exploitation of the fans by returning some palpable success. We have the most expensive season tickets to go and see a club that some on here are content to see finishing 6th because that's apparently our level. Don't you see anything wrong with that?

I'm sure the counter argument from some would be "well Spurger...the club needs to make as much money as it can from us fans if we're ever going to be in a position to challenge...don't forget the new stadium", but the merchandising and new stadium is not going to suddenly get us competing with teams that can pay £250k p/w to the world's best players.

Maybe...just maybe...I'd be willing to accept us perpetually being the 'best of the rest' and nothing more if our fans weren't being treated as if they're getting top quality, competitive football taking place at the highest level in Europe. Instead we get far-flung European games against pub team-quality sides I've never even heard of, a group of players that went on holiday 6 weeks before the season ended, the opportunity to see our best players leaving over and over again once they've cut their teeth at a 'stepping stone' club, oh and let's not forget....one trophy and one CL outing in 16 years under Levy.

If you don't understand how football, the business, works you should have just said.

So you think West Ham fans are happier, more content with what they are watching from their cheaper seats ? Or do you think they'd pay a bit more if it meant they could be best of the rest for the last ten years ?

Do you own a season ticket ? Were you forced to buy merchandise from the spurs web site by court order ?

Spurger King · May 1, 2015

Bus-Conductor said:
If you don't understand how football, the business, works you should have just said.

So you think West Ham fans are happier, more content with what they are watching from their cheaper seats ? Or do you think they'd pay a bit more if it meant they could be best of the rest for the last ten years ?

Do you own a season ticket ? Were you forced to buy merchandise from the spurs web site by court order ?

You're really starting to come across as a bit of a troll. If you're incapable of reading and understanding the points I'm making, please don't reply in such a sloppy and inconsiderate manner. It just makes you look a bit simple.

Francis Gibbs · May 1, 2015

ah see the BSoDL are out in force today ..........bless em

Lo Amo Speroni · May 1, 2015

Francis Gibbs said:
ah see the BSoDL are out in force today ..........bless em

I have defended Levy in the past and been a signed up member of BSoDL. I believe the club is well run.

That said, it still has to be about what I watch on the pitch and the last two seasons have (apart from a few exceptions) been boring. I want to see us playing an entertaining brand of football and give the cups a good shot. I am fed up of constant talk about UCL. Let's just play an entertaining brand of football and see where it gets us.

Oh and defend better.

shelfboy68 · May 1, 2015

Spurger King said:
The wins against Chelsea and Arsenal certainly were great, and I've loved seeing Kane's emergence. As I said in another thread a while ago, watching Kane this season has been akin to living my childhood dreams vicariously through his Roy of the Rovers exploits - now that's something that I'd certainly agree transcends any issues of points and league positions.

However, as much as I'm looking forward to seeing our young players progress, the whole issue I've been making in this thread is that we shouldn't be satisfied with being 6th or thereabouts simply because that's "where we should be". Would you still be excited about next season if you knew we'd not finish any higher than 6th due to the huge discrepancy between our financial power and overall quality compared to Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Oil Money, and United?

That's pretty much what some in this thread have been saying - don't expect us to punch above our weight....know your place Spurs...stop dreaming...admire the well run business Levy has.

My problems with the current state of the club go deeper. We charge more for a season ticket than any other Prem club (if you factor in the CL games included in Arsenal's season tickets). Our own manager has to try and publicly dissuade Levy from following commercial interests by making the club go on far-flung tours. The club's website is one giant merchandise shop. We delay the unveiling of new shirts as late as possible because Levy is trying to squeeze every last penny out of cut-price tops about to become outdated. We sell every top player that comes our way. We have a transfer policy of 'buy young - sell big'. We drag our transfers out as long as possible (both outgoings and incomings) because Levy wants to get the best price, which more often than not results in us missing out on realistic targets or being stuck with overpaid and unwanted players. We get through a new manager every 18 months or so as Levy looks to keep the fans onside with new saviour after new saviour whilst deflecting attention away from the lack of success. Oh and fucking Stubhub.

And for what? The fans are treated like shit over and over again...just faceless consumers to be milked dry. Do you think the same happens to this extent at Villa? Newcastle? Southampton? West Ham? Everton? Nope...not even close. You know what clubs do treat their fans in the same way? Yep...the Arsenals, Liverpools, Uniteds, Chelseas, and Oil Moneys of the prem.

One very important difference between those distinct groups...the latter actually compensate the exploitation of the fans by returning some palpable success. We have the most expensive season tickets to go and see a club that some on here are content to see finishing 6th because that's apparently our level. Don't you see anything wrong with that?

I'm sure the counter argument from some would be "well Spurger...the club needs to make as much money as it can from us fans if we're ever going to be in a position to challenge...don't forget the new stadium", but the merchandising and new stadium is not going to suddenly get us competing with teams that can pay £250k p/w to the world's best players.

Maybe...just maybe...I'd be willing to accept us perpetually being the 'best of the rest' and nothing more if our fans weren't being treated as if they're getting top quality, competitive football taking place at the highest level in Europe. Instead we get far-flung European games against pub team-quality sides I've never even heard of, a group of players that went on holiday 6 weeks before the season ended, the opportunity to see our best players leaving over and over again once they've cut their teeth at a 'stepping stone' club, oh and let's not forget....one trophy and one CL outing in 16 years under Levy.

Simply one of the best and most accurate posts i have ever seen on here well said.

nightgoat · May 1, 2015

Francis Gibbs said:
ah see the BSoDL are out in force today ..........bless em

Announcing an £80m profit mere months after effectively getting the go ahead to build our new stadium... yeah, what a **** Levy is.

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