Women's Football - Wage Disparity Debate

Archibald&Crooks

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Who said anything about non-profit? FIFA could treble the prize money in the womens game and still make a profit. Using some money from the cash reserves would have a marginal effect on annual profits anyway.

And Yes, the mens game should subsidize the womens game. It's still football. It's an investment for FIFA. They invest, the players improve, more people are interested in the game, they have a more desirable product and they end up with a tournament being watched by more people, bringing in a lot more revenue.
Four years ago the women's World Cup generated over 70 million of which 15 million was given to the womens federations in prize money (according the the figures I saw).So that's 55 million they never got. The mens game subsidising the womens game isn't even close to happening.

When you hear that some womens national teams have to pay for some things out of their own pockets it's obvious that more money needs to be given, yet we still have people begrudging that. It's ridiculous.

Suggesting they break away from FIFA is naive in the extreme. If this is the kind of mindset women are fighting against in the game then they've got a long road in front of them. I'm not sure why some people on here are so set against them getting more money, it's not coming out of anywhere that's going to effect them and it just reeks of pure bloody mindedness.

Why are people so against women's football getting a few quid more? It's baffling.
 
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dontcallme

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Four years ago the women's World Cup generated over 70 million of which 15 million was given to the womens federations in prize money (according the the figures I saw).So that's 55 million they never got. The mens game subsidising the womens game isn't even close to happening.

When you hear that some womens national teams have to pay for some things out of their own pockets it's obvious that more money needs to be given, yet we still have people begrudging that. It's ridiculous.

Suggesting they break away from FIFA is naive in the extreme. If this is the kind of mindset women are fighting against in the game then they've got a long road in front of them. I'm not sure why some people on here are so set against them getting more money, it's not coming out of anywhere that's going to effect them and it just reeks of pure bloody mindedness.

Why are people so against women's football getting a few quid more? It's baffling.
Not sure it is even a case of people begrudging it, more misrepresenting it as asking for equal pay. Guess they do it as it is easier to argue with something that isn’t happening rather than one that is.
 
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Archibald&Crooks

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Not sure it is even a case of people begrudging it, more misrepresenting it as asking for equal pay. Guess they do it as it is easier to argue with something that isn’t happening rather than one that is.
The rampant stupidity of the thread title doesn't help.
 

Atomic Blonde

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I wish some posters would actually grasp the fact that the women players are not and have never have asked for equal prize money to the men. The quotes in the original article are quite clear in saying FIFA should just give more in the way of prize money and grass roots investment in the women's game.

This has been driven by the fact that the gap in prize money given to the men and the women has actually increased over recent years (total prize money for women this year is $30 million compared with the $380 million for the men's world cup last year which will rise even further to $440 million in Qatar 2022).

As I said before, FIFA's mission statement is to 'promote/bring the game to all', but more explicitly their vision is to 'grow the game' 'enhance the experience' through 'ownership' 'investment' and 'innovation' plus their statement talks about one of their guiding principles being 'inclusivity'.

Consider FIFA's mission statement then look at the massive disparity in investment between men's and women's football, do you seriously think they are doing enough to 'grow' the women's game compared with the men's? Surely the funding gap should be closing instead of getting bigger if that were the case? Please would someone like to explain why FIFA shouldn't use a fraction of their $2.7 billion cash reserves to improve their funding while not taking anything away from the men who already benefit from billions of $'s of investment?

By making patronising comments about women's versus men's football people are completely ignoring the direct link between
investment/marketing/promotion of a sport and the inherent quality and popularity of that sport.
It is crazy to make direct comparisons unless you are totally ignorant of the massive gender imbalances throughout history.

Bear in mind men's professional football has been around since 1888 and has had billions pumped into it over the last few decades.
But look at all of the barriers and restrictions women have faced over history and still do to this day:

The English FA banned women's football from 1921 to 1971 despite massive popularity, because it was deemed 'unsuitable for females' www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/jpwee3/throwback-thursday-womens-football-banned-by-the-fa

Brazil banned women's soccer in 1941, suspending games with the help of police and local courts until 1982 because it was deemed 'incompatible with female nature"
https://www.pri.org/stories/2013-05-27/struggle-female-soccer-equality-brazil

These historical bans didn't just effect the women at the time, but generations of girls who grew up without role models to aspire to.

But the ingrained misogyny and discrimination still goes on today, with many women discouraged from participating in what is seen as a 'men's sport'. South American teams like Chile and Argentina have to fight for funding and facilities, Chile were deemed 'inactive' 3 years ago because they didn't play any competitive fixtures for two years. In their professional game the players are asked to pay their own transfer fees and expenses.
www.vice.com/amp/en_ca/article/pgnazz/south-american-soccer-is-ignoring-its-women

The Jamaican football team was disbanded due to 'lack of funding' and was only ressurected with money from Bob Marley's daughter www.essence.com/amp/culture/jamaica-womens-national-soccer-team-historic-debut-womens-world-cup/

It is a sad fact that, even today, across the Middle East, Africa, Latin America and Asia, millions of women face legal, cultural, and religious barriers that forbid them from entering the pitch. Even in countries where there are no formal restrictions, women often face death threats, accusations of unfeminine behavior, and heckling and catcalling from strangers on the sidelines. In some countries, women are even forbidden from entering soccer stadiums just to watch.

Even the supposedly more progressive countries are not doing enough, as Hope Solo points out that US women players are still having to fight for basic expenses like internet access and tracksuits.

Sadly it seems that if the men in suits at FIFA and the various football federations share the same closed minded/prejudiced views of some posters on here then things are not going to improve soon enough for the current generation of women/girls or even the next.
 

Atomic Blonde

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Not sure it is even a case of people begrudging it, more misrepresenting it as asking for equal pay. Guess they do it as it is easier to argue with something that isn’t happening rather than one that is.
True, but the fact that certain individuals keep repeating the same 'argument' while deliberately ignoring the facts shows they have an inbuilt agenda on this subject.
 

dontcallme

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True, but the fact that certain individuals keep repeating the same 'argument' while deliberately ignoring the facts shows they have an inbuilt agenda on this subject.
They likely do have an inbuilt agenda but after a while you notice many people responding to different stories with generic responses not relevant to the story or subject.
 

Lilbaz

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I wish some posters would actually grasp the fact that the women players are not and have never have asked for equal prize money to the men. The quotes in the original article are quite clear in saying FIFA should just give more in the way of prize money and grass roots investment in the women's game.

This has been driven by the fact that the gap in prize money given to the men and the women has actually increased over recent years (total prize money for women this year is $30 million compared with the $380 million for the men's world cup last year which will rise even further to $440 million in Qatar 2022).

As I said before, FIFA's mission statement is to 'promote/bring the game to all', but more explicitly their vision is to 'grow the game' 'enhance the experience' through 'ownership' 'investment' and 'innovation' plus their statement talks about one of their guiding principles being 'inclusivity'.

Consider FIFA's mission statement then look at the massive disparity in investment between men's and women's football, do you seriously think they are doing enough to 'grow' the women's game compared with the men's? Surely the funding gap should be closing instead of getting bigger if that were the case? Please would someone like to explain why FIFA shouldn't use a fraction of their $2.7 billion cash reserves to improve their funding while not taking anything away from the men who already benefit from billions of $'s of investment?

By making patronising comments about women's versus men's football people are completely ignoring the direct link between
investment/marketing/promotion of a sport and the inherent quality and popularity of that sport.
It is crazy to make direct comparisons unless you are totally ignorant of the massive gender imbalances throughout history.

Bear in mind men's professional football has been around since 1888 and has had billions pumped into it over the last few decades.
But look at all of the barriers and restrictions women have faced over history and still do to this day:

The English FA banned women's football from 1921 to 1971 despite massive popularity, because it was deemed 'unsuitable for females' www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/jpwee3/throwback-thursday-womens-football-banned-by-the-fa

Brazil banned women's soccer in 1941, suspending games with the help of police and local courts until 1982 because it was deemed 'incompatible with female nature"
https://www.pri.org/stories/2013-05-27/struggle-female-soccer-equality-brazil

These historical bans didn't just effect the women at the time, but generations of girls who grew up without role models to aspire to.

But the ingrained misogyny and discrimination still goes on today, with many women discouraged from participating in what is seen as a 'men's sport'. South American teams like Chile and Argentina have to fight for funding and facilities, Chile were deemed 'inactive' 3 years ago because they didn't play any competitive fixtures for two years. In their professional game the players are asked to pay their own transfer fees and expenses.
www.vice.com/amp/en_ca/article/pgnazz/south-american-soccer-is-ignoring-its-women

The Jamaican football team was disbanded due to 'lack of funding' and was only ressurected with money from Bob Marley's daughter www.essence.com/amp/culture/jamaica-womens-national-soccer-team-historic-debut-womens-world-cup/

It is a sad fact that, even today, across the Middle East, Africa, Latin America and Asia, millions of women face legal, cultural, and religious barriers that forbid them from entering the pitch. Even in countries where there are no formal restrictions, women often face death threats, accusations of unfeminine behavior, and heckling and catcalling from strangers on the sidelines. In some countries, women are even forbidden from entering soccer stadiums just to watch.

Even the supposedly more progressive countries are not doing enough, as Hope Solo points out that US women players are still having to fight for basic expenses like internet access and tracksuits.

Sadly it seems that if the men in suits at FIFA and the various football federations share the same closed minded/prejudiced views of some posters on here then things are not going to improve soon enough for the current generation of women/girls or even the next.
How would you split it? All the money raised from tournaments goes into a pot and is split between the federations?
Do fifa decide where the money goes?
What about u21's u17's etc...
Do san marino get the same share as usa?
Do only the teams that get into tournaments get money?

It's a complicated issue.
 

Atomic Blonde

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They likely do have an inbuilt agenda but after a while you notice many people responding to different stories with generic responses not relevant to the story or subject.
Yep, probably the same people who post in news comments sections without reading the articles but on the basis of misleading, inaccurate click bait headlines (one of the reasons I avoid comments sections because they are generally cesspools of ignorance).

It's sad that there is so much information available on the internet but it is either ignored completely or people only search out things that reinforce their own opinion.

You would think that discussion forums would help people be a bit more open minded, but maybe not 😂
 

Lilbaz

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Not sure it is even a case of people begrudging it, more misrepresenting it as asking for equal pay. Guess they do it as it is easier to argue with something that isn’t happening rather than one that is.
It said in the article that solo is bringing legal precedings asking for equal pay?
 

Atomic Blonde

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How would you split it? All the money raised from tournaments goes into a pot and is split between the federations?
Do fifa decide where the money goes?
What about u21's u17's etc...
Do san marino get the same share as usa?
Do only the teams that get into tournaments get money?

It's a complicated issue.
Of course it's vital that the money is spent on all aspects of the women's game from the grassroots upwards across all federations , just like the financial model they have for the men's game.

What I would say from reading several articles about it, is that the money being given to the Federations by FIFA is not always being distributed as it was intended. There needs to be far more accountability and transparency in that regard.
This is something that should be demanded from both FIFA and the Federations.
 

Lilbaz

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Of course it's vital that the money is spent on all aspects of the women's game from the grassroots upwards across all federations , just like the financial model they have for the men's game.

What I would say from reading several articles about it, is that the money being given to the Federations by FIFA is not always being distributed as it was intended. There needs to be far more accountability and transparency in that regard.
This is something that should be demanded from both FIFA and the Federations.
Totally agree with that. Corruption is probably the biggest problem in football. Especially for the less developed countries.
I was talking about putting the money from the mens tournaments into the same pot as the womens.

I don't think you should be paid to represent your country. That should go to grass roots but also costs involved for the team. Flights hotels training etc...

Players representing their country can get sponsorships etc...
 

Lilbaz

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Solo asking for equal pay makes me wary. Is she willing to get the same as (say) a female thai player? Or does she want more for herself?
 

Archibald&Crooks

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Solo asking for equal pay makes me wary. Is she willing to get the same as (say) a female thai player? Or does she want more for herself?
I'm pretty sure she's retired from playing so would get nothing.

Before people start slagging off Hope Solo, it's probably worth knowing that in March this year, 28 members of the current women’s national team sued U.S. Soccer on very similar grounds. So it isn't just her.
 

dontcallme

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It said in the article that solo is bringing legal precedings asking for equal pay?
But it isn't the point of the article and the OP's responses aren't related to what Hope Solo was saying.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48535933

United States World Cup winner Hope Solo says that the disparity in prize money at the men's and women's World Cups shows that "male chauvinism is entrenched" in Fifa.
World football's governing body says the £24m awarded to participating teams in 2019 is double the amount of 2015, but £315m was given to teams at the men's 2018 tournament.

This is not about equal pay.

The article does mention she is suing US Soccer. A quick search suggests they are the body for the US league rather than national side. The article is discussing the huge transparancy in funds for the male and female world cups.

In the article Hope Solo states: ""Some of the minute things players are fighting for break my heart. We shouldn't be fighting our federations for internet, or players having to pay out of their own pockets."

So the generic "why should women get equal pay when they generate less funds and have less skill?" is irrelevant to the article.
 

Lilbaz

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I'm pretty sure she's retired from playing so would get nothing.

Before people start slagging off Hope Solo, it's probably worth knowing that in March this year, 28 members of the current women’s national team sued U.S. Soccer on very similar grounds. So it isn't just her.
The us is a bit different to the rest of the world. It's colleges that develop the players rather than individual clubs and their distribution method is obviously different for pro teams.

At the end of the day if they can get more money kudos to them.
 

dontcallme

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I'm pretty sure she's retired from playing so would get nothing.

Before people start slagging off Hope Solo, it's probably worth knowing that in March this year, 28 members of the current women’s national team sued U.S. Soccer on very similar grounds. So it isn't just her.
Yeah but why should women get equal pay?:whistle:
 

Lilbaz

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But it isn't the point of the article and the OP's responses aren't related to what Hope Solo was saying.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48535933

United States World Cup winner Hope Solo says that the disparity in prize money at the men's and women's World Cups shows that "male chauvinism is entrenched" in Fifa.
World football's governing body says the £24m awarded to participating teams in 2019 is double the amount of 2015, but £315m was given to teams at the men's 2018 tournament.

This is not about equal pay.

The article does mention she is suing US Soccer. A quick search suggests they are the body for the US league rather than national side. The article is discussing the huge transparancy in funds for the male and female world cups.

In the article Hope Solo states: ""Some of the minute things players are fighting for break my heart. We shouldn't be fighting our federations for internet, or players having to pay out of their own pockets."

So the generic "why should women get equal pay when they generate less funds and have less skill?" is irrelevant to the article.
As i've said i don't think you should be paid to represent your country but the money should be there to fund teams to represent their countries.

How they work that out is way above my pay grade.
 

dontcallme

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As i've said i don't think you should be paid to represent your country but the money should be there to fund teams to represent their countries.

How they work that out is way above my pay grade.
Absolutely, that's where the debate is.

The generic women's pay issue isn't what the article was about.
 
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