Women's Football - Wage Disparity Debate

[wiggo24]

Well it's the girls u12 from the biggest club in the world with all the resources and coaches at their disposal playing against local kids amateur sides. If they could play anywhere near the level of the barca boys u12 team i'd be impressed. It's like me playing serena williams at tennis, of course she'd destroy me.

Also, the main difference between male and female sport is the levels of physicality. At U12 level none of those boys will be developed yet, so whilst impressive, I'm not sure an U12 tournament indicates much on a wider level.

 

[Atomic Blonde]

I haven't posted before on here but some of the comments on here have compelled me to do so.

Firstly, I find it ironic that a thread about a woman pointing out chauvinism and sexism in football has a number of posts which completely prove her point. The fact that rather than discussing what a woman, Hope Solo in this case, actually has to say about an important issue, a poster (presumably male) decides to reply by making a disgusting and shaming comment about her private parts. The idea of judging a woman's worthiness or attractiveness as a human being based on their body parts is the very definition of misogyny.

Much as I loathe to talk about pictures that are illegally obtained by a scumbag hacker, I just wanted to point out that women's private parts come in all shapes and sizes and are perfectly normal, but I guess that if your only experience of women's vaginas is watching pornhub, then you are probably not aware of that fact.

Secondly, and moving onto the actual matter at hand, it would appear several posters didn't even read what Solo said but get defensive and make it into a male v female debate. But, as per @Archibald&Crooks comment, she is not asking for equal prize money to men but for more prize money and more money to be given to grass roots. She then points out that women in her federation still have to fight to get their internet access and tracksuits for free. I personally don't see how anyone can argue that her points are not valid and on point. It's puzzling to me that her comments are so triggering to some people, it's as though the money is being taken directly out of their pockets, weird.

Let's put it in context, FIFA makes several billion £'s every year and spend a lot of it on executive salaries and expenses much higher than market rate, so giving a tiny % more to women actually playing the game when the women's game is becoming more watched/more popular year on year is not asking too much is it?

The last women's world cup final was watched by the largest audience ever for a football match in the US male or female and the US women's team brought in more revenue than the men's the following year because of their success.

Male players and their agents ask for more and more money all the time, despite many of their performances not meriting it, but when women ask for more money it seems to make certain people uncomfortable and agitated while in reality it is just a normal negotiating tactic in sport. I think this is is a lot to do with social conditioning and expectations about gender where ambition and aggressive negotiating is largely expected and admired in men but seen as pushy and unattractive in women.

What I also find contradictory and short sighted are the comments which are immediately dismissive of womens football, complaining the quality is poor and saying they don't deserve more money because of it. But yet we know it's a carrot and stick situation, the quality and skill of any sport will only improve when more money is spent on the game in order to attract better coaches/physios/training facilities etc.
More talent will be encouraged into the game when it is seen as a more financially viable career for women and specifically young girls who need role models to look up to and emulate.

I think people need to look at the bigger picture rather than using the same tired sexist arguments. There is plenty of room for a growing and successful women's game alongside the men's game, FIFA giving more money to the women's game is not taking anything from the men's, it doesn't need to be a 'them and us' situation.

 

[fortworthspur]

its about TV revenue and the women just dont generate much. there is nothing unjust about the disparity - it is simple market forces. whats interesting to me is the women Ive talked to that think its unfair dont watch women's football either. they think men should be just as interested in the women's game as the men's game.

 

[Atomic Blonde]

its about TV revenue and the women just dont generate much. there is nothing unjust about the disparity - it is simple market forces. whats interesting to me is the women Ive talked to that think its unfair dont watch women's football either. they think men should be just as interested in the women's game as the men's game.

As per my above post, she is not asking FIFA for equal prize money to the men, just an increase to its current level. Please read the article.

 

[nailsy]

I haven't posted before on here but some of the comments on here have compelled me to do so.

Firstly, I find it ironic that a thread about a woman pointing out chauvinism and sexism in football has a number of posts which completely prove her point. The fact that rather than discussing what a woman, Hope Solo in this case, actually has to say about an important issue, a poster (presumably male) decides to reply by making a disgusting and shaming comment about her private parts. The idea of judging a woman's worthiness or attractiveness as a human being based on their body parts is the very definition of misogyny.

Much as I loathe to talk about pictures that are illegally obtained by a scumbag hacker, I just wanted to point out that women's private parts come in all shapes and sizes and are perfectly normal, but I guess that if your only experience of women's vaginas is watching pornhub, then you are probably not aware of that fact.

Secondly, and moving onto the actual matter at hand, it would appear several posters didn't even read what Solo said but get defensive and make it into a male v female debate. But, as per @Archibald&Crooks comment, she is not asking for equal prize money to men but for more prize money and more money to be given to grass roots. She then points out that women in her federation still have to fight to get their internet access and tracksuits for free. I personally don't see how anyone can argue that her points are not valid and on point. It's puzzling to me that her comments are so triggering to some people, it's as though the money is being taken directly out of their pockets, weird.

Let's put it in context, FIFA makes several billion £'s every year and spend a lot of it on executive salaries and expenses much higher than market rate, so giving a tiny % more to women actually playing the game when the women's game is becoming more watched/more popular year on year is not asking too much is it?

The last women's world cup final was watched by the largest audience ever for a football match in the US male or female and the US women's team brought in more revenue than the men's the following year because of their success.

Male players and their agents ask for more and more money all the time, despite many of their performances not meriting it, but when women ask for more money it seems to make certain people uncomfortable and agitated while in reality it is just a normal negotiating tactic in sport. I think this is is a lot to do with social conditioning and expectations about gender where ambition and aggressive negotiating is largely expected and admired in men but seen as pushy and unattractive in women.

What I also find contradictory and short sighted are the comments which are immediately dismissive of womens football, complaining the quality is poor and saying they don't deserve more money because of it. But yet we know it's a carrot and stick situation, the quality and skill of any sport will only improve when more money is spent on the game in order to attract better coaches/physios/training facilities etc.
More talent will be encouraged into the game when it is seen as a more financially viable career for women and specifically young girls who need role models to look up to and emulate.

I think people need to look at the bigger picture rather than using the same tired sexist arguments. There is plenty of room for a growing and successful women's game alongside the men's game, FIFA giving more money to the women's game is not taking anything from the men's, it doesn't need to be a 'them and us' situation.

You should post more often.

 

[nailsy]

Believe someone tried to get them a pay rise and emlyn hughes told them to fuck off, that it was a privilege to play for england and he'd pay to play. The other players agreed. So they give the money to charity.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-44683574

And yet people say the England players don't care.

 

[Lilbaz]

And yet people say the England players don't care.

True. But could you imagine the financial repercussions of one that said, no i want the money? Sponsors would drop him like a lead balloon.

 

[fortworthspur]

As per my above post, she is not asking FIFA for equal prize money to the men, just an increase to its current level. Please read the article.

the men generate one pot of money, the women another. what each do with their money is up to them. its not unreasonable for the women players to have a discussion about that to do with their revenue. I dont think its fair to ask the men to subsidize the women which is what many not named Hope Solo are basically asking for.

 

[Atomic Blonde]

the men generate one pot of money, the women another. what each do with their money is up to them. its not unreasonable for the women players to have a discussion about that to do with their revenue. I dont think its fair to ask the men to subsidize the women which is what many not named Hope Solo are basically asking for.

Where does it say that there are two separate pots for men & women's football and where is the evidence that the men would be subsidising the women?
According to this article,there is only one pot for both men's and women's money/revenue, it specifically states that FIFA sells their sponsorship rights to both world cups as a package deal.

"Exactly how much money women's soccer generates is unclear, as much of FIFA's revenue comes from top sponsors who are signed up for both World Cups.

"That's something never really analyzed," said Haenni, who spent 19 years at FIFA. "What is the potential value of the Women's World Cup? Nobody knows the Women's World Cup commercial value because it's not sold separately. This is something that should at least be discussed."

One of FIFA's main sponsors is listening.

Credit card giant Visa said last week that it would support "women's football with a marketing investment equal to our support of the men's FIFA World Cup in Russia." It did not disclose any figures."

What we do know, according to this article, is that
"FIFA is awash with cash. People with knowledge of FIFA's finances told The Associated Press that in the four-year period covering the 2018 World Cup, FIFA's reserves soared to $2.74 billion and revenue rose to $6.4 billion"
(www.inquirer.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup-prize-money-women-jill-ellis-20190307.html%3foutputType=amp)

Considering that the last women's world cup was watched by approx 800 million people and the viewing figures are expected to be higher this year, then asking for a bigger bump in prize money is totally justified imo.

Regardless of this, as @DFF pointed out in their earlier post, this whole debate shouldn't even be based on commercial popularity, bearing in mind that FIFA are a not-for-profit organisation and are supposed to be responsible for the redistribution of their revenue back into both the men and women's professional and grassroots game, regardless of who brings in the biggest part of that revenue.

At this point in time the prize money gap between the men and the women is actually increasing rather than decreasing, it's only fair that those who care about the women's game point this out. FIFA need to do better.

 

[Lilbaz]

Where does it say that there are two separate pots for men & women's football and where is the evidence that the men would be subsidising the women?
According to this article,there is only one pot for both men's and women's money/revenue, it specifically states that FIFA sells their sponsorship rights to both world cups as a package deal.

"Exactly how much money women's soccer generates is unclear, as much of FIFA's revenue comes from top sponsors who are signed up for both World Cups.

"That's something never really analyzed," said Haenni, who spent 19 years at FIFA. "What is the potential value of the Women's World Cup? Nobody knows the Women's World Cup commercial value because it's not sold separately. This is something that should at least be discussed."

One of FIFA's main sponsors is listening.

Credit card giant Visa said last week that it would support "women's football with a marketing investment equal to our support of the men's FIFA World Cup in Russia." It did not disclose any figures."

What we do know, according to this article, is that
"FIFA is awash with cash. People with knowledge of FIFA's finances told The Associated Press that in the four-year period covering the 2018 World Cup, FIFA's reserves soared to $2.74 billion and revenue rose to $6.4 billion"
(www.inquirer.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup-prize-money-women-jill-ellis-20190307.html%3foutputType=amp)

Considering that the last women's world cup was watched by approx 800 million people and the viewing figures are expected to be higher this year, then asking for a bigger bump in prize money is totally justified imo.

Regardless of this, as @DFF pointed out in their earlier post, this whole debate shouldn't even be based on commercial popularity, bearing in mind that FIFA are a not-for-profit organisation and are supposed to be responsible for the redistribution of their revenue back into both the men and women's professional and grassroots game, regardless of who brings in the biggest part of that revenue.

At this point in time the prize money gap between the men and the women is actually increasing rather than decreasing, it's only fair that those who care about the women's game point this out. FIFA need to do better.

If the women can get more money and the suits in fifa less. I am all for it.

 

[LeParisien]

A lot of very sexist posts in this thread and personal insults. Well done to @Atomic Blonde for calling them out.

@Rob and others have said the men’s game has generated far more money than the women’s game so the disparity is normal. It has also historically attracted far less exposure, marketing and investment. The disparity in popularity is not because everyone has watched both and decided on a superior product.

Compare the difference between tennis and football in terms of differences in exposure, marketing, investment and popularity in the men’s and women’s game. Far less difference in popularity in tennis because other factors far more equal.

 

[Lilbaz]

A lot of very sexist posts in this thread and personal insults. Well done to @Atomic Blonde for calling them out.

@Rob and others have said the men’s game has generated far more money than the women’s game so the disparity is normal. It has also historically attracted far less exposure, marketing and investment. The disparity in popularity is not because everyone has watched both and decided on a superior product.

Compare the difference between tennis and football in terms of differences in exposure, marketing, investment and popularity in the men’s and women’s game. Far less difference in popularity in tennis because other factors far more equal.

It's entertainment at the end of the day. Football has mostly been more mens entertainment historically. As a lot of sport has. Men are just more physically competitive.

This is changing. Good for sport yes.

 

[UncleBuck]

I’m a mid 40’s male who struggles to find time to watch us play at the best of times.
I have never had any interest in watching women play football or any other sport and no amount of brain washing from the media will change my opinion.
I might be considered a dinosaur/sexist/bigot or whatever in today’s world but there are quite a few of us who are afraid to say what I just have, so it’ll probably take quite a few years or maybe even another generation to come through before there is some sort of parity in terms of wages between men and women in sport.
If women’s sport can generate an equal amount of support from spectators and commercial sponsorship, coupled with playing to the same standard and parameters as men’s games then of course there should be pay parity but until then men should earn more.

 

[LeParisien]

I’m a mid 40’s male who struggles to find time to watch us play at the best of times.
I have never had any interest in watching women play football or any other sport and no amount of brain washing from the media will change my opinion.
I might be considered a dinosaur/sexist/bigot or whatever in today’s world but there are quite a few of us who are afraid to say what I just have, so it’ll probably take quite a few years or maybe even another generation to come through before there is some sort of parity in terms of wages between men and women in sport.
If women’s sport can generate an equal amount of support from spectators and commercial sponsorship, coupled with playing to the same standard and parameters as men’s games then of course there should be pay parity but until then men should earn more.

Consider how things might be different if over the past 50 years, men’s football had been suppressed in much of the world (including countries like France) and women’s football was shown on prime time slots on major channels with slickly produced tv shows and on the back page of every major newspaper.

In that case you would likely be a follower of women’s football.

Tell us more about media brain washing...

 

[dontcallme]

Where does it say that there are two separate pots for men & women's football and where is the evidence that the men would be subsidising the women?
According to this article,there is only one pot for both men's and women's money/revenue, it specifically states that FIFA sells their sponsorship rights to both world cups as a package deal.

"Exactly how much money women's soccer generates is unclear, as much of FIFA's revenue comes from top sponsors who are signed up for both World Cups.

"That's something never really analyzed," said Haenni, who spent 19 years at FIFA. "What is the potential value of the Women's World Cup? Nobody knows the Women's World Cup commercial value because it's not sold separately. This is something that should at least be discussed."

One of FIFA's main sponsors is listening.

Credit card giant Visa said last week that it would support "women's football with a marketing investment equal to our support of the men's FIFA World Cup in Russia." It did not disclose any figures."

What we do know, according to this article, is that
"FIFA is awash with cash. People with knowledge of FIFA's finances told The Associated Press that in the four-year period covering the 2018 World Cup, FIFA's reserves soared to $2.74 billion and revenue rose to $6.4 billion"
(www.inquirer.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup-prize-money-women-jill-ellis-20190307.html%3foutputType=amp)

Considering that the last women's world cup was watched by approx 800 million people and the viewing figures are expected to be higher this year, then asking for a bigger bump in prize money is totally justified imo.

Regardless of this, as @DFF pointed out in their earlier post, this whole debate shouldn't even be based on commercial popularity, bearing in mind that FIFA are a not-for-profit organisation and are supposed to be responsible for the redistribution of their revenue back into both the men and women's professional and grassroots game, regardless of who brings in the biggest part of that revenue.

At this point in time the prize money gap between the men and the women is actually increasing rather than decreasing, it's only fair that those who care about the women's game point this out. FIFA need to do better.

Good posts. Problem is you are trying to debate with people who haven’t read the article or points being made who just want to give the opinions they already had.

Despite the internet being a wide resource base many people don’t actually read or look into anything.

 

[SpunkyBackpack]

I’m a mid 40’s male who struggles to find time to watch us play at the best of times.
I have never had any interest in watching women play football or any other sport and no amount of brain washing from the media will change my opinion.
I might be considered a dinosaur/sexist/bigot or whatever in today’s world but there are quite a few of us who are afraid to say what I just have, so it’ll probably take quite a few years or maybe even another generation to come through before there is some sort of parity in terms of wages between men and women in sport.
If women’s sport can generate an equal amount of support from spectators and commercial sponsorship, coupled with playing to the same standard and parameters as men’s games then of course there should be pay parity but until then men should earn more.

The fact you refer to coverage of women's football as 'brainwashing' says more about you than all of the other words in that post.

 

[UncleBuck]

Consider how things might be different if over the past 50 years, men’s football had been suppressed in much of the world (including countries like France) and women’s football was shown on prime time slots on major channels with slickly produced tv shows and on the back page of every major newspaper.

In that case you would likely be a follower of women’s football.

Tell us more about media brain washing...

There was a thread set up about a year ago on here questioning why the bbc was pushing the ‘ladies game’ down everyone’s throats so it’s not just myself who has noticed it.
@Krule set up a link yesterday for the women’s World Cup and up till about five minutes ago there had been twelve messages on the thread, compare that to the last men’s World Cup and you’d have been getting that an hour.
Most blokes aren’t interested in watching women play sport and most women are more interested in watching love island.
Yes, I know it sounds sexist and generalistic but it’s true!

 

[UncleBuck]

The fact you refer to coverage of women's football as 'brainwashing' says more about you than all of the other words in that post.

#dinosaur!

 

[dontcallme]

I’m a mid 40’s male who struggles to find time to watch us play at the best of times.
I have never had any interest in watching women play football or any other sport and no amount of brain washing from the media will change my opinion.
I might be considered a dinosaur/sexist/bigot or whatever in today’s world but there are quite a few of us who are afraid to say what I just have, so it’ll probably take quite a few years or maybe even another generation to come through before there is some sort of parity in terms of wages between men and women in sport.
If women’s sport can generate an equal amount of support from spectators and commercial sponsorship, coupled with playing to the same standard and parameters as men’s games then of course there should be pay parity but until then men should earn more.

Haven’t looked into this in full but don’t believe equal pay is what is being discussed.

 

[SpunkyBackpack]

#dinosaur!

#itseasytoavoidanykindofselfreflectionwhenicanplaythevictimanddismissanykindofcritisismthatcomemyway