What's new

Wilfried Zaha

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,865
16,053
Straw man argument A&C. I am certainly not criticising Daniel Levy's running of the club, certainly not suggesting that. What I am saying is that a balance needs to be struck given our comparative financial constraints between backing Poch and backing Poch to a disproportionate level. If he really wants Zaha and Levy says ok, then I just hope and pray Zaha can be that player who takes us to the next level, given the outlay it would take to bring him in. And iirc, some of the ITKs earlier in the window were saying as much, that we can overspend if we want on player X, but that would impact on our ability to spend on player Z. I just think there are other areas of the team that need more urgent attention, but if you think differently, then that's your opinion.
What is the alternative to not backing Poch even if you are right and he wants the wrong player ? Whose opinion should Levy back if not Pochs ?
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
6,409
10,931
Why are people comparing Moura at PSG in the French League to the stats of Zaha in the Premier league for Crystal Palace?!!

Come on, that's meaningless it shows nothing. Taking the best team in the French league, in a much weaker league and comparing that to one of the hardest, if not hardest leagues in the world to a player at one of the least creatvie teams who were near the bottom. Of course Moura's stats should be 5 times the stats of Zaha. You put Zaha in that league with that team and then come back and do a comparison? Apples to Apples please.

Some of these comments. Dear lord.

Martial is far better, really? Based on what. He hasn't held down at starting position at United for 2 years and when he is good, maybe he is better but when he is bad, he is far from Zaha's level.

For me Zaha or Martial would be excellent signing. I'm not going to bash either, i feel they will bring exactly what we are missing to the team. Power and pace over more than ten yards, an actual player who eats up the ground and scares defenders.

I don't need to look at stats to go yes lets buy this player. When i watch Zaha i can see just how much of a handful he is for the opposing team, he makes them worry, much like Martial (when he is confident / up for it). Purely because these guys are super quick. have great feet and a goal threat.

If we sign either of these for 70m i'd take it. They are both better than Son. This will likely get me a 100 disagrees. But unless Son scores in a game, much like Dele, he does nothing, he frustrates me the most and i'd rather play Dele over Son, my opinion and i'd much rather add a Martial / Zaha to our team to replace Son as i think that balances us out.

People will say how well Son has played and look where we have finished, but maybe we would have won something or finished higher with Zaha/Martial in this team. Both of whom can play the central role as well if Kane is out.

I don't get the Zaha bashing at all, anyone who has watched Premier League football obviously has a vendetta against him if they can't see what he would bring from the last few seasons.
Neither Zaha or Martial are as good as Son. You may only see his goals but you obviously aren’t watching his movement off the ball which is a nightmare for opposing teams. I’m stunned he is still that under rated by some of our fans.
 

johnbowel

Active Member
Jan 21, 2015
123
250
Not all these arguments are cut and dry.

In fact almost all your logic is falling into the same logical fallacy that playing for a better team makes your stats better and having good stats on a bad team is much more difficult - which isn’t necessarily true.

For example I could almost word for word replace the name Zaha with Sigurdsson in your argument and replace Crystal Palace with Swansea and cut and paste your argument into last year to advocate in signing Sigurdsson (obviously Siggy doesn’t have power and pace, but you get the point). Except the problem is we’re a year on from that and have seen the results at Everton and as it turns out sometimes playing at a worse team does infact inflate your stats.

But apparently anyone who watches the premier league and doesn’t rate Wilfred zaha ‘obviously has a vendetta against him’.... rather than a differing opinion. I don’t know why people are so outraged and threatened by someone disagreeing with them that they have to imply the opinion of anyone who thinks differently doesn’t count due to the extremely logical and non self-serving idea that they must be operating out of arbitrary and hitherto unexplained personal malice.

I don’t go around saying anyone who rates Zaha having actually watched him is obviously infatuated with his winsome eyes.

But then I do forget that almost every single opinion voiced is absolute, with no acceptance of the points opposing it, regardless of whether or not they’re enough to sway overall opinion. It’s like when ideas exit the head and enter the real world they have to harden in order to survive.
 

John48

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2015
2,249
3,143
Son tends to be direct & whilst he does step overs he doesn't have the close ball control that Zaha has & at 6ft & pace he offers a bit more than Son for me, but the real thing with him is he gives us good options. Any 2 from Lucas, Son & Zaha & well be pretty decent, as long as the rest of the team are up to it as well.

Mind you I'd take Martial as an alternative.
 

johnbowel

Active Member
Jan 21, 2015
123
250
What is the alternative to not backing Poch even if you are right and he wants the wrong player ? Whose opinion should Levy back if not Pochs ?

This is genuinely a tough one. I just wish his involvement in our recruitment was to discuss the player types and qualities he needs to create the team he wants and we had a ‘transfer team’ or whatever, working together, to apply that, and with a few people all contributing their own expertise to that direction. I don’t know how our committee works. I dunno, it’s scary the amount of money involved. The concept of backing a manager shouldn’t mean deferring to him completely in all areas but rather working with him. I’d rather us back our scouts when it comes to scouting. We seem to be savvy to the times a good player has reached a temporarily low price, but less so to the times the opposite is the case. Hitchin made me hopeful because Modric is a player that was begging to be rejected for all the wrong reasons (too small, untested, no goals/assists...) so took proper player judgement.
 
Last edited:

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
Son is a very useful player and an integral part of our squad. Zaha would give us something different - the ability to take 2 or 3 opponents out of the game or win a penalty. TBH - I think AM is an area we’re sorted in and would rather we were looking at CM.
 

yido_number1

He'll always be magic
Jun 8, 2004
8,645
16,810
I like Zaha, he's a very exciting player to watch and he'd definitely give you a lot of enjoyment. I'm not ? he is exactly what we need at this stage though. Still if we sign him I think he could improve a lot with his 1st really decent manager.

I doubt this will come off due to fee but anyone comparing him to sissoko are so far wrong. Sissoko clearly has poor technique and you could always see that and at his age it's unlikely you could teach balance and how to kick a ball. Zaha is very strong on the ball and needs coaching in team dynamique and end product. I'd back the coaching team to improve that if we signed him.

I'd still rather a younger more exciting signing with potential to be our next Kane or bale which he isn't but I would still be excited to watch him in a spurs Shirt taking on players.
 

nattydredd

Non Contributor
Jul 20, 2015
1,103
4,412
Son is a very useful player and an integral part of our squad. Zaha would give us something different - the ability to take 2 or 3 opponents out of the game or win a penalty. TBH - I think AM is an area we’re sorted in and would rather we were looking at CM.

Agree, Zaha has that "X" factor, with that occasional moment of pure genius..not sure if I'm wanting "occasional" though..

He could thrive under Poch, if he's receptive..that's the key
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
55,533
204,721
Straw man argument A&C. I am certainly not criticising Daniel Levy's running of the club, certainly not suggesting that.
Straw man my arse.

failures have cost us a lot of money that a club of our ilk cannot keep affording. Spend a vast amount on the wrong player and we end up paying for it in all senses for years to come.

If that's not suggesting Levy hasn't got a handle on the clubs finances I don't know what is. Especially when you consider that our 'failures' haven't actually cost us that much at all given that we've (and I hesitate to say it) one of the lowest net spends known to man :D

And we're nowhere near paying for it for years to come, the new stadium and our continuing pursuit of players suggests otherwise, the widely held opinion that we're one of the best run clubs in the league suggests otherwise. You say you're not criticising Levy, Ok fine, I believe you, so what are you doing? Sounding a note of caution over factors you think Levy is unaware of?

I'll say it again. IF Levy spunks 50 or 60m on Zaha it'll be because the club can afford it and to suggest otherwise, to suggest Levy is going to suddenly play Pontoon with the clubs future because you're worrying about the price and to suggest we'll be paying for it for years to come is, quite honestly, laughable. Trust the bald man, its what we're always told, isn't it?

If there's any straw man going on, it's not coming from me. Anyway, we're going to go around in circles, I'm sure you'll have a response, cool beans, it's just a snotty disagreement, I hope my tone doesn't offend, it's meant light heartedly, and I still love you. Codshead :D
 
Last edited:

scat1620

L'espion mal fait
May 11, 2008
16,280
52,490
Straw man my arse.

failures have cost us a lot of money that a club of our ilk cannot keep affording. Spend a vast amount on the wrong player and we end up paying for it in all senses for years to come.

If that's not suggesting Levy hasn't got a handle on the clubs finances I don't know what is. Especially when you consider that our 'failures' haven't actually cost us that much at all given that we've (and I hesitate to say it) one of the lowest net spends known to man :D

And we're nowhere near paying for it for years to come, the new stadium and our continuing pursuit of players suggests otherwise, the widely held opinion that we're one of the best run clubs in the league suggests otherwise. You say you're not criticising Levy, Ok fine, I believe you, so what are you doing? Sounding a note of caution over factors you think Levy is unaware of?

I'll say it again. IF Levy spunks 50 or 60m on Zaha it'll be because the club can afford it and to suggest otherwise, to suggest Levy is going to suddenly play Pontoon with the clubs future because you're worrying about the price and to suggest we'll be paying for it for years to come is, quite honestly, laughable. Trust the bald man, its what we're always told, isn't it?

If there's any straw man going on, it's not coming from me. Anyway, we're going to go around in circles, I'm sure you'll have a response, cool beans, it's just a snotty disagreement, I hope my tone doesn't offend, it's meant light heartedly, and I still love you. Codshead :D
You've changed, man. You've changed.
 

archiewasking

Waiting for silverware..........
Jul 5, 2004
7,848
11,668
Straw man my arse.

failures have cost us a lot of money that a club of our ilk cannot keep affording. Spend a vast amount on the wrong player and we end up paying for it in all senses for years to come.

If that's not suggesting Levy hasn't got a handle on the clubs finances I don't know what is. Especially when you consider that our 'failures' haven't actually cost us that much at all given that we've (and I hesitate to say it) one of the lowest net spends known to man :D

And we're nowhere near paying for it for years to come, the new stadium and our continuing pursuit of players suggests otherwise, the widely held opinion that we're one of the best run clubs in the league suggests otherwise. You say you're not criticising Levy, Ok fine, I believe you, so what are you doing? Sounding a note of caution over factors you think Levy is unaware of?

I'll say it again. IF Levy spunks 50 or 60m on Zaha it'll be because the club can afford it and to suggest otherwise, to suggest Levy is going to suddenly play Pontoon with the clubs future because you're worrying about the price and to suggest we'll be paying for it for years to come is, quite honestly, laughable. Trust the bald man, its what we're always told, isn't it?

If there's any straw man going on, it's not coming from me. Anyway, we're going to go around in circles, I'm sure you'll have a response, cool beans, it's just a snotty disagreement, I hope my tone doesn't offend, it's meant light heartedly, and I still love you. Codshead :D

I actually do agree with you about Levy's stewardship and of course I am not suggesting either that he would be reckless with the club's finances or that we couldn't afford the fee for Zaha. As I said before, the ITKs reckon overspending on one player will affect our ability to spend on others. If Poch wants him, fine, but I am free to disagree that Zaha is the player who will take us to the next level and significantly increase our chances of the silverware we all crave. That kind of investment imho should be reserved for a Bale, Modric, Isco or Kovacic type of player.
 

JerryGarcia

Dark star crashes...
May 18, 2006
8,694
16,026
Straw man my arse.

failures have cost us a lot of money that a club of our ilk cannot keep affording. Spend a vast amount on the wrong player and we end up paying for it in all senses for years to come.

If that's not suggesting Levy hasn't got a handle on the clubs finances I don't know what is. Especially when you consider that our 'failures' haven't actually cost us that much at all given that we've (and I hesitate to say it) one of the lowest net spends known to man :D

And we're nowhere near paying for it for years to come, the new stadium and our continuing pursuit of players suggests otherwise, the widely held opinion that we're one of the best run clubs in the league suggests otherwise. You say you're not criticising Levy, Ok fine, I believe you, so what are you doing? Sounding a note of caution over factors you think Levy is unaware of?

I'll say it again. IF Levy spunks 50 or 60m on Zaha it'll be because the club can afford it and to suggest otherwise, to suggest Levy is going to suddenly play Pontoon with the clubs future because you're worrying about the price and to suggest we'll be paying for it for years to come is, quite honestly, laughable. Trust the bald man, its what we're always told, isn't it?

If there's any straw man going on, it's not coming from me. Anyway, we're going to go around in circles, I'm sure you'll have a response, cool beans, it's just a snotty disagreement, I hope my tone doesn't offend, it's meant light heartedly, and I still love you. Codshead :D

Welcome to the cult of Levy, collect your robe and sandals and follow us into the golden light of his majesty.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Why are people comparing Moura at PSG in the French League to the stats of Zaha in the Premier league for Crystal Palace?!!

Come on, that's meaningless it shows nothing. Taking the best team in the French league, in a much weaker league and comparing that to one of the hardest, if not hardest leagues in the world to a player at one of the least creatvie teams who were near the bottom. Of course Moura's stats should be 5 times the stats of Zaha. You put Zaha in that league with that team and then come back and do a comparison? Apples to Apples please.

Some of these comments. Dear lord.

Martial is far better, really? Based on what. He hasn't held down at starting position at United for 2 years and when he is good, maybe he is better but when he is bad, he is far from Zaha's level.

For me Zaha or Martial would be excellent signing. I'm not going to bash either, i feel they will bring exactly what we are missing to the team. Power and pace over more than ten yards, an actual player who eats up the ground and scares defenders.

I don't need to look at stats to go yes lets buy this player. When i watch Zaha i can see just how much of a handful he is for the opposing team, he makes them worry, much like Martial (when he is confident / up for it). Purely because these guys are super quick. have great feet and a goal threat.

If we sign either of these for 70m i'd take it. They are both better than Son. This will likely get me a 100 disagrees. But unless Son scores in a game, much like Dele, he does nothing, he frustrates me the most and i'd rather play Dele over Son, my opinion and i'd much rather add a Martial / Zaha to our team to replace Son as i think that balances us out.

People will say how well Son has played and look where we have finished, but maybe we would have won something or finished higher with Zaha/Martial in this team. Both of whom can play the central role as well if Kane is out.

I don't get the Zaha bashing at all, anyone who has watched Premier League football obviously has a vendetta against him if they can't see what he would bring from the last few seasons.

I disagree totally with your views on Zaha and for reasons I posted 5 post before yours. His pace wouldn’t help us unless it’s v teams that don’t sit back, teams don’t sit back v Palace. He stood in for Palace as a striker sometimes, but his shooting accuracy and end product is very disappointing, and his thinking at times isn’t the full ticket. Why shoot from 18 yards when you have the ball at your feet, no one near you with an open goal. He could of walked that in the net v us, at least Son knocks up 15-20 goals a season, doesn’t dive for fun.
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
I actually do agree with you about Levy's stewardship and of course I am not suggesting either that he would be reckless with the club's finances or that we couldn't afford the fee for Zaha. As I said before, the ITKs reckon overspending on one player will affect our ability to spend on others. If Poch wants him, fine, but I am free to disagree that Zaha is the player who will take us to the next level and significantly increase our chances of the silverware we all crave. That kind of investment imho should be reserved for a Bale, Modric, Isco or Kovacic type of player.

I think the thing that generally makes us/Levy different is our ability (for the most part) to recoup fees for poor signings. Bar Bentley/Gomes, who Levy seemed to lock in the basement for no reason, we've always been good at shifting poor players for good money - N'jie, Wimmer, Chadli, Yedlin, Stambouli, Falque, Caulker etc. all went for (imo) more than they were worth on the market at the time.

Problem with a "£70m" signing is that the margins are less forgivable. Also, Zaha is very similar to Siggy in that he looks good in a team that give him the ball constantly - he wouldn't get that at spurs, and so might end up being a passenger, at which point every thread about a transfer would probably refer to the "waste of money" and a list of players we could have bought instead.

I'm ambivalent towards this one, but I can see why you'd be completely justified in expecting a different type of player for the fees referenced
 

matty74

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
1,269
3,332
Definitely all for us signing Zaha would thrive under poch and in the systems we play and would give us something different can’t see palace selling for under 70m which would be the major sticking point.

All of the players linked this would be my preferred signing
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,886
130,485
I really can't be arsed to read 21 pages on this player, but all I will say is I really hope we don't sign him. Yes he looked good for Palace, but against Palace the opposition don't sit deep. he would only be good for us as a bench warmer that can come on when 2 or 3-0 up, and the opposition are leaving space at the back.

his reputation as a diver could be costly, and also playing in the AFCN every 2 years or whatever it is could also be a real hindrance. I really hope after a good pre-season Moura gets his chance to step up to the plate, and is used as a WF on the left. he could be the player to push Son all season and if we lose Sonny next year for his national service, then hopefully Moura will be that man (another reason I'm not that bothered about Martial) I would rather get Bale back at all cost if we could possible find away.
AFCON is no longer in January so isn't an issue.
 

archiewasking

Waiting for silverware..........
Jul 5, 2004
7,848
11,668
If we do get him, though, I may well put a large wodge on Palace going down. That's the thing I am most convinced of.
 
Top