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Who would you keep?

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
We need a total overhaul. Build around the spine:

Lloris
New CB
New CM
Lo Celso
Kane

Buy leaders in those two positions.

Then on top of that we need new full backs. And proper back up / competitor for Kane.

Dier, Son, Bergwijn, Ndombele have roles to play.

Sessegnon, Skipp, Tanganga and Parrot can provide young home grown talent (if JM is prepared to trust them and develop them, making it about them and not him).

Personally I think any of Alderweireld, Sanchez, Lamela, Sissoko, Winks, Dele, Moura, Aurier could be moved on to generate funds.

We need to raise £150m from sales AND be prepared to put up another £100m if we want to compete for top 4 next season.

I can bet you privately Mourinho is saying the same to Levy. No manager would be doing anything different. It’s obvious where we need players. If they aren’t delivered the manager will have every right to be pissed off because we are going to do anything until a lot of problems are sorted out.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,355
87,831
The attacking options of the squad are more than fine imo. It's clear that we need to rebuild the defensive foundations. CB's, FB's and a DM.
 

BPR_U16

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2006
1,783
2,603
First out has to be Jose.
He is not cut out for the re-build the club needs and his persona will alienate many in the process.
His name is still currently a draw but very soon all will see that his style and philosophy is outdated.
 
D

Deleted member 27995

First out has to be Jose.
He is not cut out for the re-build the club needs and his persona will alienate many in the process.
His name is still currently a draw but very soon all will see that his style and philosophy is outdated.
We can sell H to pay him off leaving us with a squad that's pretty much mid table and no main striker?

Seems legit.
 

onthetwo

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2006
4,583
3,407
I wouldn't keep Jose.

Where is the evidence he can rebuild a squad on a limited budget?
I was surprised about the length of contract given to Jose in the first place i.e Why wasnt he given a contract until the end of season and then reappraised? As the rebuild begins in the summer, it feels like we have the wrong manager in place to carry it out and i suspect that everyone at the club knows it so we now also run the risk of a clear-out being handled by a manager that wont be around by the following transfer window so hes more motivated for quick fixes than long term solutions.
What a mess!
 

kendoddsdadsdogsdead

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2011
2,140
3,574
You completely missed the point I was making. The most heralded centre back in world football today was leaving Celtic to join Southampton when he was 24.

You could argue Sánchez has achieved more and is more experienced at this stage in his career. You could also factor in he’s maybe playing with some of the worst full backs in the league, no proper defensive midfielder and no consistent partnership with one particular player. There’s no real cohesion at the back at the moment.

To write off a defender at 24, whilst he’s playing competently enough individually, without being absolutely foot perfect, is very premature in my book. What would be the point in investing so much time and money into Sanchez to get rid before we even see how he fully develops?

I brought up Upamecano as he’s the shiny new thing you’ll see clubs splashing big money on shortly. They’ll be buying an even rawer Sanchez. Lots of things to iron out to become a real refined, elite defender. The only thing more expensive than the top wonderkid in any position is usually the much older, finished article. The player in his prime.


At a younger age I think it’s more about having certain attributes to potentially becoming a great centre back, but I think it mainly comes with experience and judgement. You rarely find that in younger defenders, as was the case with a certain VVD. When he first came to Southampton he was far from the player he is today. You could argue he’s still improving and did so from years 1 to 2 at Liverpool. De Ligt hasn’t been all that great for Juve this season, is he trash? He will most likely become the best centre back in the world in the future.

Sanchez is tall and strong and dominant in the air, just a bit clumsy and unaware sometimes. He’s very quick which is a great attribute for a defender. See: VVD and Joe Gomez. Things like positioning, anticipation, composure, awareness - these are things that can be worked on and will flourish in a solid and consistent back four that play a certain way. You develop that as a defender and improve as you get older and more experienced. Though he could definitely improve in these areas, and most likely will, I don’t think he’s all that bad in any of them and I don’t think his performances this year have been disastrous or anything.

I think his main problem is with his feet, that’s the part of his game that’s the most lacking for me. I remember Mourinho targeting it before as United boss vs Ajax. He’s poor on the ball and I hope that can improve.

I certainly wouldn’t suggest selling him just yet though. Just out of interest, who would you say are the best centre backs in the world? And what would their average age be?

I got the point it just doesn’t make sense to me. The idea of comparing or trashing other players to give Sanchez more credence. You might as well say any 24 year old centre back in Scotland has the potential to be like Vvd because he was playing in Scotland at that age. Vvd’s career path has got nothing to with Sanchez’ quality or potential as a player.

De Ligt has the potential to be a fantastic Centre half and maybe is already tbh. Funnily enough I saw Juve play the other night and he looked good. Very strong and composed. Has he been poor this season, I don’t know, maybe, I haven’t watched any more of their games but you can quite clearly see he’s got it.

Sanchez has been playing in this league three years, how long is he going to get the young inexperienced tag for? Sanchez is tall, strong and dominant in the air. I’m sorry thats just not true. I also don’t think you can learn composure.

problem with his feet is a big problem. If your defenders are not Comfortable on the ball it makes everyone else nervy and it’s much harder to play through the pitch.

I want him to be all those things you say, I really do and he seems like he’s a good lad but I’m not going to try and convince myself I’m watching something completely different than I am because we spent a lot of money on him and it’s more comforting.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,355
87,831
First out has to be Jose.
He is not cut out for the re-build the club needs and his persona will alienate many in the process.
His name is still currently a draw but very soon all will see that his style and philosophy is outdated.
I've expressed frustration at him, but honestly a change of manager right now will reset us even further. Who could we even get right now, in the middle of a pandemic, that would suddenly leap us back in time to when we were 2nd and 3rd?

Poch said this would be a painful season, this is what he meant. Because we weren't proactive in the transfer market, we've allowed our best players to leave or decline without replacing them ahead of time.

With Jose you at least have a manager with 20 years of experience of pragmatism and success (until he gets sick of us at least) rather than wiping out all of the last half decades progress by starting a completely new project.
 

emiley heskey

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2020
1,121
1,832
You can't learn composure at this stage of your game. Sanchez is good but will never become great and also Sanchez is not a leader , another passive player in our ranks. If possible, We can still sell him to any la liga clubs for 30m odds and buy both Kim Min Jae and Gabriel from Lille for the Sanchez money though I think I would rather sell Aurier, Sissoko, Moura before selling Sanchez in order to raise money.
 

cozzo

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2005
3,541
6,225
I would keep Gedson. I think he has a lot of potential. Ideally needed a run of games in cups.
 

The General

Active Member
Sep 10, 2014
128
191
Keep:

Jose (Needs time like every manager)
Harry (Needs to find his enthusiasm, but our only world class player)
Lloris (Experience and very good)
Dier (Potential world class central back)
Son (Shirt sales and goals)
Sanchez (24 and all the attributes, seems to be getting more comfortable on the ball)
Bergwijn (Looks really exciting)
Lo Celso (Talent and attitude, will get better and better)
Winks (English and good temperament)
Skipp / Sessegnon / Tanganga - Potential
Davies (Not as first choice though)
Toby (Experienced, quality)
Foyth (Loan out. Need games)

Undecided: I would sell a couple of the following, but not all of them -
Ndombele (potential world class but will he ever work hard enough)
Alli (When he’s off he’s really off)
Lamela (Great attitude, but just doesn’t seem to happen for him in a spurs shirt)
Moura (head down, poor decision making)
Sissoko (Love his physical attributes and attitude, hate his first touch and final ball)

Sell:
Aurier (only just decided. I think he’s one of the best full backs in the world in the middle third. Unfortunately he can’t defend or cross, so his ability to get form one box to the other is irrelevant).
Vertonghen (My favourite spurs defender ever alongside Ledley, but I think he’s done).
Vorm
Rose

Kids have gone to nana and grandads. I might play Championship manager for the first time in 20 years. Doing this has made me think we’e not as far away as it may appear.
 

ILS

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
3,803
6,913
I got the point it just doesn’t make sense to me. The idea of comparing or trashing other players to give Sanchez more credence. You might as well say any 24 year old centre back in Scotland has the potential to be like Vvd because he was playing in Scotland at that age. Vvd’s career path has got nothing to with Sanchez’ quality or potential as a player.

De Ligt has the potential to be a fantastic Centre half and maybe is already tbh. Funnily enough I saw Juve play the other night and he looked good. Very strong and composed. Has he been poor this season, I don’t know, maybe, I haven’t watched any more of their games but you can quite clearly see he’s got it.

Sanchez has been playing in this league three years, how long is he going to get the young inexperienced tag for? Sanchez is tall, strong and dominant in the air. I’m sorry thats just not true. I also don’t think you can learn composure.

problem with his feet is a big problem. If your defenders are not Comfortable on the ball it makes everyone else nervy and it’s much harder to play through the pitch.

I want him to be all those things you say, I really do and he seems like he’s a good lad but I’m not going to try and convince myself I’m watching something completely different than I am because we spent a lot of money on him and it’s more comforting.
For me what is even more embarrassing for a player of Sanchez's reputation who has had a year at Ajax and now three years here, is that a player like Chris Basham at Sheff Utd who has played in the lower leagues of English football for the whole of his career has more ability with the ball at his feet.

If you just take a step back and let that sink in, If I was Davinson I would be embarrassed.
 

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
2,674
7,717
Window opens 26th July.

Window closes October 5th? No confirmation yet (at least, UEFA has urged all member associations to adopt a harmonised closure on 5th October....).

So we shall probably have to wait until October before we find out who's staying/going? :cautious:
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Lloris
Dier
Tanganga
Lo Celso
Bergwijn
Kane

Tanganga I feel deserves to come to he his development with us, Bergwijn has made an exciting start, and the other three are the best players in their parts of the pitch.

I think Son is our most saleable player after Kane and he’s never going to be worth more than he is now given his age, and I also think he’s far more replaceable than people realise. I am surprised when I see people describe him as our best player in recent time’s, I’ve found him erratic and unreliable.

Lucas, Lamela, Dele have all shown their maximum and I’d say in all cases it falls short, so I would happily see any or all be replaced by younger, hungrier options.

Winks, Sissoko, Skipp, Gedson, none of these are good enough. Ndombele has proven nothing yet, though if he did then he’s the only one who’s join the keep list.

Toby and Jan are shot, Sanchez let’s himself down despite having everything in his make up, Davies is at best sturdy but uninspiring and Aurier is just another who seems to have all the tools but, like Davinson, probably lacks something upstairs to knit it all together.

Gazzaniga I think will never have higher stock. If we could shift him and bring in someone like Freddie Woodman who’s had a good year on loan in the championship or a similar HG profile who could also be a likely successor to Hugo, because Gazzaniga is a number 2.

I’d definitely keep the likes of Skipp, Sessegnon, Parrott and Clarke to compete for first team spots, they’re all potentially at least premier league quality and should even one of them make it to the level we need then that’s a £50m player. Low risk high potential, it’s what we’re built on. Them and Tanganga even if all become just serviceable squad options would free up so much space of non HG players and so much funds to spend on key issues that it’d be daft not to persist with them. Subject to the rest of his spell at Southampton I’d say the same for KWP.
 

ILS

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
3,803
6,913
Lloris
Dier
Tanganga
Lo Celso
Bergwijn
Kane

Tanganga I feel deserves to come to he his development with us, Bergwijn has made an exciting start, and the other three are the best players in their parts of the pitch.

I think Son is our most saleable player after Kane and he’s never going to be worth more than he is now given his age, and I also think he’s far more replaceable than people realise. I am surprised when I see people describe him as our best player in recent time’s, I’ve found him erratic and unreliable.

Lucas, Lamela, Dele have all shown their maximum and I’d say in all cases it falls short, so I would happily see any or all be replaced by younger, hungrier options.

Winks, Sissoko, Skipp, Gedson, none of these are good enough. Ndombele has proven nothing yet, though if he did then he’s the only one who’s join the keep list.

Toby and Jan are shot, Sanchez let’s himself down despite having everything in his make up, Davies is at best sturdy but uninspiring and Aurier is just another who seems to have all the tools but, like Davinson, probably lacks something upstairs to knit it all together.

Gazzaniga I think will never have higher stock. If we could shift him and bring in someone like Freddie Woodman who’s had a good year on loan in the championship or a similar HG profile who could also be a likely successor to Hugo, because Gazzaniga is a number 2.

I’d definitely keep the likes of Skipp, Sessegnon, Parrott and Clarke to compete for first team spots, they’re all potentially at least premier league quality and should even one of them make it to the level we need then that’s a £50m player. Low risk high potential, it’s what we’re built on. Them and Tanganga even if all become just serviceable squad options would free up so much space of non HG players and so much funds to spend on key issues that it’d be daft not to persist with them. Subject to the rest of his spell at Southampton I’d say the same for KWP.
Bit of a change of view from yourself on Dele?
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Bit of a change of view from yourself on Dele?
Not really. I’ve never said Dele is playing at his best, only that he’s achieved a phenomenal amount at a young age for us and deserved far more patience than he gets. But this is a list of who I see as must keeps, and he doesn’t fall into that list.
 

JME-9

Active Member
Jul 5, 2015
102
224
Keep:

Jose (Needs time like every manager)
Harry (Needs to find his enthusiasm, but our only world class player)
Lloris (Experience and very good)
Dier (Potential world class central back)
Son (Shirt sales and goals)
Sanchez (24 and all the attributes, seems to be getting more comfortable on the ball)
Bergwijn (Looks really exciting)
Lo Celso (Talent and attitude, will get better and better)
Winks (English and good temperament)
Skipp / Sessegnon / Tanganga - Potential
Davies (Not as first choice though)
Toby (Experienced, quality)
Foyth (Loan out. Need games)

Undecided: I would sell a couple of the following, but not all of them -
Ndombele (potential world class but will he ever work hard enough)
Alli (When he’s off he’s really off)
Lamela (Great attitude, but just doesn’t seem to happen for him in a spurs shirt)
Moura (head down, poor decision making)
Sissoko (Love his physical attributes and attitude, hate his first touch and final ball)

Sell:
Aurier (only just decided. I think he’s one of the best full backs in the world in the middle third. Unfortunately he can’t defend or cross, so his ability to get form one box to the other is irrelevant).
Vertonghen (My favourite spurs defender ever alongside Ledley, but I think he’s done).
Vorm
Rose

Kids have gone to nana and grandads. I might play Championship manager for the first time in 20 years. Doing this has made me think we’e not as far away as it may appear.
Sanchez certainly does not look more comfortable on the ball
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,392
I was surprised about the length of contract given to Jose in the first place i.e Why wasnt he given a contract until the end of season and then reappraised? As the rebuild begins in the summer, it feels like we have the wrong manager in place to carry it out and i suspect that everyone at the club knows it so we now also run the risk of a clear-out being handled by a manager that wont be around by the following transfer window so hes more motivated for quick fixes than long term solutions.
What a mess!

I'd love to know what's in the small print of Mourinho's contract. I wouldn't put it past Levy to have a release clause in there if Mourinho doesn't deliver on a few targets.
 

GLC10

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
294
649
Next season we need to qualify for Champions To keep the good players... Lo Celso, Bergwin, Ndombele.

--------------------------Lloris---------------------------
--Aurier-------CB------------CB-------------Sessegnon---------

---Ndombele------Hojberjg-----------Lo Celso-----------

---Bergwin--------Kane----------Son------
 
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