Who would you keep?

[stov]

The last 10 years of spurs.

Building a team, a stadium, getting a manager worthy of building a legacy then throw it away as you won't spend on 2 to 3 first team players. Yup definitely a let down.

 

[riggi]

Building a team, a stadium, getting a manager worthy of building a legacy then throw it away as you won't spend on 2 to 3 first team players. Yup definitely a let down.

Being in Milan watching Crouch score that header I really thought it was the start of something. Shame.

 

[mil1lion]

The last 10 years were the best years I've had as a fan. The Poch team followed by the Redknapp team were the most exciting for me.
Unfortunately the better we got the higher the expectation so the more disappointed we became. Missing out on the Champions League was a massive blow yet not even something you would consider as a possibility 5 years ago.
This past year has felt like a post mortem of a once great team. Now they just lack desire like they've run out of puff. We're being outworked by most of our opponents now which is hard to watch. We're so passive off the ball now when a few years ago we were the hardest working team in the League.
It's really a question of how many changes are needed to get that hunger back.

 

[Monkey boy]

Being in Milan watching Crouch score that header I really thought it was the start of something. Shame.

what header in Milan?

 

[riggi]

what header in Milan?

Against AC. Oh shit it wasn’t a header ha. You get my general point though...

 

[Monkey boy]

Against AC. Oh shit it wasn’t a header ha. You get my general point though...

yeah I suppose the only glimmer of hope we have left tohold on to is after that period with Redknapp we dipped to the levels we are currently seeing. Here’s hoping

 

[DiVaio]

I think it's going to be extremely hard going in this transfer window. Only clubs with oil money will be spending big and players won't want to move if wages have dropped. Levy will hang onto the purse strings even tighter than usual so all in all, I expect a fair bit of disappointment. The only ray of hope is that some clubs might be forced to sell at knock down prices.

Actually it looks like like a completely normal window. Osimhen is close to Lille for 70-80m which would be high even without covid, Gabriel is leaving for 30m. Hakimi also had a offer for 60m which would be normal pre-covid. Tbh with deflated market we would sell player cheap but then would buy even cheaper, it's still good situation

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Your surety is interesting, when you consider VVD, who many now consider to be the best defender in the world, had only just left the SPL for Southampton when he was Davinson’s age.

Defenders don’t usually peak until their late twenties, he’s a physical specimen and has great attributes to be a real solid centre half. If he can improve his composure and improve with the ball at his feet, he could potentially be a monster defender.

People are raving about Upamecano, and though he is younger, is even less refined than Davinson.

Sometimes I think people just want to moan.

I hope I’m wrong. I’m just judging what I’m seeing, and what I have seen for three years. He’s got so many fundamental flaws in his game it’s just completely ridiculous to think he’s just going to turn into a Vvd level player just because he’s the same age as when he went to Celtic. There is literally no other comparisons in style between the players. Upamenco I haven’t seen to much of but I don’t need to watch him to judge another player.

I wish it was just composure and ability that he needs to improve because then he would have a chance I guess(although personally I don’t think you can improve to much in that regard at his age) but I don’t see where you’re seeing these great attributes to be a solid/monster centre half. what are his great attributes? He struggles to judge the flight of crosses/high balls, he often gets bullied by any reasonable physical forward that he ends up giving silly fouls away because he can’t handle them. He either gets to tight or drops off too far because of it. His technique when clearing crosses is dreadful. He’s got decent pace but I wouldnt say he was lightning quick either. just don’t see where the confidence comes from, all seems like perception and wishful thinking to me.

 

[stormfly]

The 11 that started on the pitch yesterday were not good enough. In the past we have blamed Dele, Trippier, Rose, Eriksen none of them were in sight yesterday and we were still weak. I can’t look any further than this all going wrong when Dembele’s legs went and we sold him. The confidence he gave the team knowing they could give him the ball and he would hold onto it, beat a few players was obvious to see. Maybe he was a big voice in the changing room as well? Sometimes the chemistry in a team just clicks but that seems long gone now and we need a complete reboot. Starting with a Dembele MK2 but that’s a lot easier said than done.

 

[spids]

We need a total overhaul. Build around the spine:

Lloris
New CB
New CM
Lo Celso
Kane

Buy leaders in those two positions.

Then on top of that we need new full backs. And proper back up / competitor for Kane.

Dier, Son, Bergwijn, Ndombele have roles to play.

Sessegnon, Skipp, Tanganga and Parrot can provide young home grown talent (if JM is prepared to trust them and develop them, making it about them and not him).

Personally I think any of Alderweireld, Sanchez, Lamela, Sissoko, Winks, Dele, Moura, Aurier could be moved on to generate funds.

We need to raise £150m from sales AND be prepared to put up another £100m if we want to compete for top 4 next season.

 

[Pat Rice Spurs fan]

It's what we've basically tried to do by buying Lo Celso, Stevie, Tanguy and Sess, only these days it's not possible to get cut prices for "promising but unproven at this level" players, all players are overpriced to the level of complete insanity, no matter where you buy them from. So we've ended up spending record amounts on players who won't even be up to speed until next season, let alone prove themselves to be worthy replacements of previous star players.

We can't be as clever as we used to be.

I think it is still possible to get bargains (and Lo Celso & Bergwijn may prove to be just that) but we're just not as good as others at finding them any more.
Leicester are a good example. How much did they pay for their back four? Ndidi? Madison? Tielemans? Barnes? Maguire? And going a little further back, Kante & Mahrez?
I think we were just trying to play at being big boys by relying on someone else to take a punt and then hoping to buy EPL tried & tested players but still wanting them at the knock down price.

 

[Cochise]

Lloris, Alderweireld, Tanganga, Dier, Sessegnon, Winks, Skipp, Gedson, GLC, Dele, Ndombele, Lamela, Bergwijn, Son, Kane.

The rest can all go as far as I'm concerned, so long as we get some decent cash for them. Sanchez is no better than a backup, he and Foyth can both go if it means we get a real leader back there.

Aurier I'm tempted to keep as he would be a decent enough backup, but Davies is never going to be a starter and squad games can go to someone else.

Sissoko does one thing good and then two things bad. I'd be happy if he went as we need a DM and have better CM's than him. I'm not a fan of Lucas Moura, he's far too unreliable. Lamela just makes the cut, but only just.

 

[jonnyp]

Out of this current squad for next season, If you were Levy & Jose, who would you definitely not sell?

For me, it's....

Kane
Lloris
Son
Bergwijn
Lo Celso
Tanganga
Parrott

Everybody else as far as I'm concerned can be sold if the right offer comes in.

Sad state of affairs, but I agree.

 

[punkisback]

I think it is still possible to get bargains (and Lo Celso & Bergwijn may prove to be just that) but we're just not as good as others at finding them any more.
Leicester are a good example. How much did they pay for their back four? Ndidi? Madison? Tielemans? Barnes? Maguire? And going a little further back, Kante & Mahrez?
I think we were just trying to play at being big boys by relying on someone else to take a punt and then hoping to buy EPL tried & tested players but still wanting them at the knock down price.

I think a lot of it was thinking that your Madisons, Tielemans, Maguire were not good enough for us at the time, I don't know if it was scouts or Poch. One thing I did like about Jose, Bergwijn wasn't his first choice, but he still bought him. Poch would have made us go in with just Moura, and Son as pure wingers.

 

[Pat Rice Spurs fan]

I think a big thing is that in the past, especially early on under Poch, we were better than the sum of our parts.
We never had the Hazards, Ozils, Alexis Sanchez, Di Marias, Yaya Toures, Agueros, Rooneys. But we could compete with them.
It was all about the team.
Those great players of ours that we now look back on weren't awesome when we bought them but we took a (calculated) chance on them - Walker, Rose, (Bale,) even Dembele was carried through a few games in centre midfield by Sandro. And, yes, sometimes it didn't work out (Wimmer (?), Janssen, N'Jie, N'Koudou).
Then Dier came in, and not long after he was England's first choice holding midfielder and Jose was desperate to take him to Man U.
Dele from two divisions below was getting interest from Barca & Real.
It's the same Dele & Dier that so many want rid of now - they can't suddenly become shit, can they?
And that's the big issue for me, not that we need rid of 75% of the squad, but that we need someone to motivate them, to build confidence in them - to build a team again.

And I don't think Jose is capable of being that man (anymore).

For me, we need a new manger that can do all these things and have a new tactical plan (one that plays attacking football would be nice) and someone (DoF?) that does a better job of finding new talent (like Mitchell, whoever's done it for Leicester, or even fun time Frankie in BMJ time).

 

[DiamondLites]

Full backs and a DM have to be the priority, the weakness in these positions completely undermines what are in theory talented players in the CB and attacking midfield positions

who these players are who are a) of the required quality and b) within budget I have no clue

 

[Davo99]

I hope I’m wrong. I’m just judging what I’m seeing, and what I have seen for three years. He’s got so many fundamental flaws in his game it’s just completely ridiculous to think he’s just going to turn into a Vvd level player just because he’s the same age as when he went to Celtic. There is literally no other comparisons in style between the players. Upamenco I haven’t seen to much of but I don’t need to watch him to judge another player.

I wish it was just composure and ability that he needs to improve because then he would have a chance I guess(although personally I don’t think you can improve to much in that regard at his age) but I don’t see where you’re seeing these great attributes to be a solid/monster centre half. what are his great attributes? He struggles to judge the flight of crosses/high balls, he often gets bullied by any reasonable physical forward that he ends up giving silly fouls away because he can’t handle them. He either gets to tight or drops off too far because of it. His technique when clearing crosses is dreadful. He’s got decent pace but I wouldnt say he was lightning quick either. just don’t see where the confidence comes from, all seems like perception and wishful thinking to me.

You completely missed the point I was making. The most heralded centre back in world football today was leaving Celtic to join Southampton when he was 24.

You could argue Sánchez has achieved more and is more experienced at this stage in his career. You could also factor in he’s maybe playing with some of the worst full backs in the league, no proper defensive midfielder and no consistent partnership with one particular player. There’s no real cohesion at the back at the moment.

To write off a defender at 24, whilst he’s playing competently enough individually, without being absolutely foot perfect, is very premature in my book. What would be the point in investing so much time and money into Sanchez to get rid before we even see how he fully develops?

I brought up Upamecano as he’s the shiny new thing you’ll see clubs splashing big money on shortly. They’ll be buying an even rawer Sanchez. Lots of things to iron out to become a real refined, elite defender. The only thing more expensive than the top wonderkid in any position is usually the much older, finished article. The player in his prime.


At a younger age I think it’s more about having certain attributes to potentially becoming a great centre back, but I think it mainly comes with experience and judgement. You rarely find that in younger defenders, as was the case with a certain VVD. When he first came to Southampton he was far from the player he is today. You could argue he’s still improving and did so from years 1 to 2 at Liverpool. De Ligt hasn’t been all that great for Juve this season, is he trash? He will most likely become the best centre back in the world in the future.

Sanchez is tall and strong and dominant in the air, just a bit clumsy and unaware sometimes. He’s very quick which is a great attribute for a defender. See: VVD and Joe Gomez. Things like positioning, anticipation, composure, awareness - these are things that can be worked on and will flourish in a solid and consistent back four that play a certain way. You develop that as a defender and improve as you get older and more experienced. Though he could definitely improve in these areas, and most likely will, I don’t think he’s all that bad in any of them and I don’t think his performances this year have been disastrous or anything.

I think his main problem is with his feet, that’s the part of his game that’s the most lacking for me. I remember Mourinho targeting it before as United boss vs Ajax. He’s poor on the ball and I hope that can improve.

I certainly wouldn’t suggest selling him just yet though. Just out of interest, who would you say are the best centre backs in the world? And what would their average age be?

 

[Trees]

There is not 1 player that I would not sell for a decent price. I look at us and no one ‘bleeds’ Spurs.

We went away from our MO. Buying young players and letting them grow.

Im sorry to say we are a hair’s breadth from becoming like West Ham. No soul to the club and in the middle of a pandemic. Perfect storm. How do you rip up the squad when player values will be way down ?

In my view Mourinho is the wrong fit for us in every way. Style of play, longevity, past his sell by date.

We need a young manager, a good DoF, an ethos that runs through the club and 2 good young full backs !

 

[nedley]

Changed my mind.

Id probably just keep Lo Celso. I'd be open (to different degrees) any of the others leaving. Even Kane and Son.

 

[ILS]

You completely missed the point I was making. The most heralded centre back in world football today was leaving Celtic to join Southampton when he was 24.

You could argue Sánchez has achieved more and is more experienced at this stage in his career. You could also factor in he’s maybe playing with some of the worst full backs in the league, no proper defensive midfielder and no consistent partnership with one particular player. There’s no real cohesion at the back at the moment.

To write off a defender at 24, whilst he’s playing competently enough individually, without being absolutely foot perfect, is very premature in my book. What would be the point in investing so much time and money into Sanchez to get rid before we even see how he fully develops?

I brought up Upamecano as he’s the shiny new thing you’ll see clubs splashing big money on shortly. They’ll be buying an even rawer Sanchez. Lots of things to iron out to become a real refined, elite defender. The only thing more expensive than the top wonderkid in any position is usually the much older, finished article. The player in his prime.


At a younger age I think it’s more about having certain attributes to potentially becoming a great centre back, but I think it mainly comes with experience and judgement. You rarely find that in younger defenders, as was the case with a certain VVD. When he first came to Southampton he was far from the player he is today. You could argue he’s still improving and did so from years 1 to 2 at Liverpool. De Ligt hasn’t been all that great for Juve this season, is he trash? He will most likely become the best centre back in the world in the future.

Sanchez is tall and strong and dominant in the air, just a bit clumsy and unaware sometimes. He’s very quick which is a great attribute for a defender. See: VVD and Joe Gomez. Things like positioning, anticipation, composure, awareness - these are things that can be worked on and will flourish in a solid and consistent back four that play a certain way. You develop that as a defender and improve as you get older and more experienced. Though he could definitely improve in these areas, and most likely will, I don’t think he’s all that bad in any of them and I don’t think his performances this year have been disastrous or anything.

I think his main problem is with his feet, that’s the part of his game that’s the most lacking for me. I remember Mourinho targeting it before as United boss vs Ajax. He’s poor on the ball and I hope that can improve.

I certainly wouldn’t suggest selling him just yet though. Just out of interest, who would you say are the best centre backs in the world? And what would their average age be?

To be a World Class centre back you have to be able to do everything and one of the most important attributes is composure on a football. Ramos has always had it, Van Dijk has always had it, De Ligt has always had it, Bonnuci has always had it, Pique has always had it. Apart from De Ligt as he is at the other end of the age spectrum the other four have had composure as part of their game throughout their entire careers which has led them to be four of the best defenders over the last 10 years and can be deemed world class. If you not going to be a ball playing centre half but still a World Class defender then you have to be like Chiellini and be pretty much utter faultless in the way you defend.

Not once since Sanchez has has joined this football club have I seen any sort of composure from him both on the ball or even mentally. Someone mentioned it in an earlier post that for some reason he feels the need to have an individual battle with any striker who is quick and physical and the majority of the time he comes off worse. I remember watching him live at WBA away a couple of seasons ago and Rondon won every battle against him, so instead of dropping off and giving himself an opportunity to defend differently he persistently kept trying to be physical with him and lost every battle. Roll on Sheff Utd and he is still making the same mistakes with Mousset.

The lad does not learn and has not improved at all in the time he has been with us. The Utd game he missed a basic header which could have cost us a goal if Lloris hadn't saved from Rashford. These are the same type of mistakes he was making from his first season.

Yes has had his good games and I would expect that from a £40m player but but he still is a liability. You mention Upamecano; who I agree is very raw and not even the best centre back at Leipzig. But he has the ability of being composed on the football and also he is still very young. Saliba is another one who is also very young but is composed on the football.

You may not agree but Davidson Sanchez is very similar in many attributes to Chris Smalling. People do not rate Smalling in this country and its not because of his defending as I have watched at least three games when he has had Kane in his pocket for an entire match. It's because he is so inept on the ball that it was the only reason Southgate stopped picking him for England. He probably still is in a one and one situation our best English defender but he is dreadful with the ball at his feet and that has not changed from his time at Fulham to even now.

You may think that for a defender having the ball at your feet is not a top priority but the way the game is played now it is. If you notice every team that comes to our ground allows Sanchez to have the ball because they know unless he passes it sideways to his team mate he is turning the ball over. No other potential or World Class defender does that and he will continue to do that.

I would even go as far as saying that Dier has a better chance of turning into a world class centre back then Sanchez due to the attributes he has.
Do I think Sanchez will have a good career in the end? Yes I do when he moves to Italy in 12 months for a team like Napoli but he will never be world class.