What Stops You Attending a Protest/Demonstration Against Levy/Enic?

[Dunc2610]

Don’t worry Dunc….ill be there…with bells on. Well not literally bells….that would be weird.

Can I post you a lifesized carboard cutout of me to take along?

 

[WhiteStripe]

Money is the only language he talks, but again there's no appetite for people to give up season tickets, or not go to matches, and there'll never be enough people not spending money on Spurs to make enough of a difference to the bottom line.

I’d happily leave my seat empty for as long as it took for acceptance by them that change is needed. Empty seats would certainly have the impact on both bottom line and media perception. I get the “suppprt the team” argument but at some point this becomes bigger than that.

 

[Albertbarich]

I agree it makes much more sense to discuss it when something more concrete is out there rather than these BS links.

The be careful what you wish for argument is more used in a Leeds sense not in a moral sense. But yes, we’d have to evaluate it when/if the time comes.

I’ve flip flopped a lot over the “would you want to become a new city” debate but I must admit, the way the world has gone last few years, makes me lean a lot more towards not wanting to sell our soul so if it was a choice between Qatar owning us, or someone with strong links, then it would be ENIC for me.

Just to make the debate really philosophically nonsense , I think we and the rest of football sold our soul years ago.

I think Lewis and his mates are scumbags anyway but I’m seeing world cups in Qatar and next Saudi, every other sport has jumped into bed with them and our own government are welcoming state ownership through the back door. Not sure what I’d be even fighting against anymore.

 

[E17yid]

Just to make the debate really philosophically nonsense , I think we and the rest of football sold our soul years ago.

I think Lewis and his mates are scumbags anyway but I’m seeing world cups in Qatar and next Saudi, every other sport has jumped into bed with them and our own government are welcoming state ownership through the back door. Not sure what I’d be even fighting against anymore.

I feel you mate. And to be honest, I’m as fickle as the next dick head so I’ll probably change my tune at the sight of a league title or something, I just think, like with everything in life, there’s levels to Scumbaggery and the thought of people orchestrating, or being complicit in, human rights abuses is just a step to far for me. I’d rather have the dodgy insider trader or what have you.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

It’s the same rumour that always pops up when people moan about Enic. The rumour also states it’s a private Qatari not the government or are all people from their evil?

im bored of this be careful what you wish for game people like to play to defend these scummy property developers . I’ll happily have the debate if and when it happens but it hasn’t and if you have to use a totally hypothetical scenario to defend them I’d say that’s shakey grounds.

if you want them to stay, stick your chest out and say it . I don’t agree but at least it’s honest.

I liked your last post. The corporatisation and commercialisation of football is in many ways killing the game we love.

But why in your quoted post do you call being concerned about potential new owners “a game”?

A lot of people believe that there’s at least as much risk in a forced change of ownership as keeping the one we have.

That’s just as authentic a view as your being confident that forcing ENIC out without knowing who might replace them will benefit the club.

 

[Albertbarich]

I liked your last post. The corporatisation and commercialisation of football is in many ways killing the game we love.

But why in your quoted post do you call being concerned about potential new owners “a game”?

A lot of people believe that there’s at least as much risk in a forced change of ownership as keeping the one we have.

That’s just as authentic a view as your being confident that forcing ENIC out without knowing who might replace them will benefit the club.

I believe the thought of change being bad is the last defence of this ownership. Many many people are genuine about it but I also believe the club use it to their benefit and plant those seeds across social media.

I just don’t agree with the premise of it. You can say you don’t want to risk the Saudis owning us sure, but I can just retort that if those same Saudis offered these owners a billion quid to sponsor the stadium , not only would levy accept but he would ask where they wanted the lube.

I know the whole situation is complicated and get why people have doubts but I don’t think this worry about a potentially big bad owner coming in is a reason not to demand change or even more from this lot.

 

[Albertbarich]

I feel you mate. And to be honest, I’m as fickle as the next dick head so I’ll probably change my tune at the sight of a league title or something, I just think, like with everything in life, there’s levels to Scumbaggery and the thought of people orchestrating, or being complicit in, human rights abuses is just a step to far for me. I’d rather have the dodgy insider trader or what have you.

I just want to feel like my club wants to win. That’s the crux of it for me. We’re not trying our best and that is the worst feeling in the world as a fan.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

View attachment 151911

Good on them but I bet there is a tiny turnout and barely anyone does the sit in.

The majority of our fans just cba to try and make a change.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Nepotism plays a part

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

I believe the thought of change being bad is the last defence of this ownership. Many many people are genuine about it but I also believe the club use it to their benefit and plant those seeds across social media.

I just don’t agree with the premise of it. You can say you don’t want to risk the Saudis owning us sure, but I can just retort that if those same Saudis offered these owners a billion quid to sponsor the stadium , not only would levy accept but he would ask where they wanted the lube.

I know the whole situation is complicated and get why people have doubts but I don’t think this worry about a potentially big bad owner coming in is a reason not to demand change or even more from this lot.

I agree.

But you were calling out people for not putting out their chest and protesting.

The fact is there are valid reasons for not protesting as well as there are for protesting, and you will not get unanimity, or in my view enough people to make a protest genuinely effective.

I’d rather get behind the team and see results improve as a first step.

Booing, turning our backs on the team, boycotting the stadium(as if) etc will not help, not in the the current set of circumstances anyway.

 

[mil1lion]

There were quite large ENIC protests in the past, when the club was worth a tiny fraction of what it is now.

They had little to no effect then.

They’ll have less now.

And as others have pointed out, many people want to go to the game and watch the football, cheer on the team and go home again, and maybe spend a bit in the shops and bars.

Despite the awful results we’ve suffered over the last year or so, for reasons even we here don’t all agree on, there is nothing like the unanimity needed for protests to have any real effect.

Another reason for that may be this often-voiced opinion:

that until you know who might take over, many fans are not convinced that forcing ENIC out against their will, (even if it were possible) will necessarily improve the club or attract the best owners.

If only it were that easy.

I don't recall anything remotely large in terms of a protest against ENIC

 

[Albertbarich]

I agree.

But you were calling out people for not putting out their chest and protesting.

The fact is there are valid reasons for not protesting as well as there are for protesting, and you will not get unanimity, or in my view enough people to make a protest genuinely effective.

I’d rather get behind the team and see results improve as a first step.

Booing, turning our backs on the team, boycotting the stadium(as if) etc will not help, not in the the current set of circumstances anyway.

Just a point. To take it back.

this started because I was only making a point that if we do effect the sponsors and partnerships it would effect Levy. You then replied with reasons why people won’t protest and the E17Yid focused on the potential new owner so the conversation went that way.

it’s like we’re having five different debates at once. I’ll try and be clear in quick bullet points.

• 
  don’t think Levy is as immune to it as he and people who like him believe. He hides away, conducts no interviews, we have seen his wife comforting him , he often reacts when he does get criticised by the fanbase too.
• This week we have seen loads of articles, media coverage and much more vocal support. Do I think one silent match will work? Of course not. But if they’re movement grows, if the attention go towards the NFL, towards AIA, towards the musical artists then at one point people will question if using this stadium is worth the hassle and I don’t care what you say, that puts his position in the spotlight. It’s going to be a long fight, but there are thousands of us, he can’t just ignore us if this carries on growing.
• Away from that. We have been hearing be careful what you wish for since they came in. We have seen our trophy record made a laughing stock and yeah it could be worse , but man it could be so much better. And sure we could get a state ownership or a leveraged buyout but we could also get a really ambitious sporting owner . We just don’t know. But I won’t let the fear of the unknown effect my clarity on my view that ENIC are using our club as one massive property deal. That’s my view and I respect if you disagree on that but it’s hard to have a debate about a totally made up scenario.
• If you don’t want to join in on a protest or even just disagree with it then nobody is forcing anyone to do so. I suspect after a couple of wins the anger will subside and your side will be happier , but I hope I’m wrong.
• And lastly because you and others have said I want to get behind the team. Arguably our three best players have said this week that the board aren’t backing the team. So I’m pretty sure the players will understand.

 

[mil1lion]

Spurs shop will be selling Levy Out merch. Make sure you all get yours Sunday.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Just a point. To take it back.

this started because I was only making a point that if we do effect the sponsors and partnerships it would effect Levy. You then replied with reasons why people won’t protest and the E17Yid focused on the potential new owner so the conversation went that way.

it’s like we’re having five different debates at once. I’ll try and be clear in quick bullet points.

• 
  don’t think Levy is as immune to it as he and people who like him believe. He hides away, conducts no interviews, we have seen his wife comforting him , he often reacts when he does get criticised by the fanbase too.
• This week we have seen loads of articles, media coverage and much more vocal support. Do I think one silent match will work? Of course not. But if they’re movement grows, if the attention go towards the NFL, towards AIA, towards the musical artists then at one point people will question if using this stadium is worth the hassle and I don’t care what you say, that puts his position in the spotlight. It’s going to be a long fight, but there are thousands of us, he can’t just ignore us if this carries on growing.
• Away from that. We have been hearing be careful what you wish for since they came in. We have seen our trophy record made a laughing stock and yeah it could be worse , but man it could be so much better. And sure we could get a state ownership or a leveraged buyout but we could also get a really ambitious sporting owner . We just don’t know. But I won’t let the fear of the unknown effect my clarity on my view that ENIC are using our club as one massive property deal. That’s my view and I respect if you disagree on that but it’s hard to have a debate about a totally made up scenario.
• If you don’t want to join in on a protest or even just disagree with it then nobody is forcing anyone to do so. I suspect after a couple of wins the anger will subside and your side will be happier , but I hope I’m wrong.
• And lastly because you and others have said I want to get behind the team. Arguably our three best players have said this week that the board aren’t backing the team. So I’m pretty sure the players will understand.

My side?

All I'm saying is that I don't think protests will work right now, for several reasons.

Anyway, that's enough of that.

 

[aliyid]

In good voice outside the ground

 

[crippsy251]

Or we can be good little customers who go to the stadium and pay some of the highest ticket prices in the world and buy lots of merchandise, food and beer and continue to praise the wonderful Daniel Levy for one trophy in 25 years and be happy we don't do a Leeds.

Makes good sense to be honest
Better than begging fir a glazer type take over. Which is far more likely than some benevolent billionaire who won't expect any money back from his investment

 

[FuturistiC123]

I recall when Van Der Vaart joined and discovered that the showers in the old training facilities did not work on a regular basis, he thought it was quaint. I also recall how the old stadium was in need of fairly drastic repair. Levy and ENIC have got things wrong, but almost wherever you look you will find supporters who are not happy for one reason or another with their owners. If any prospective purchaser decides to take the plunge and buy the club for 2.5 or 3 billion it will not be because of Poch, Harry Redknapp, Harry Kane or any of our past players or managers. it will be because under ENIC the club has built one of the finest stadiums in the world, and first class training facilities. It has become one of the wealthiest clubs in football. I've been a supporter since 1956, I've seen good and bad times.

Personally, I think we are very close to our goal, but an awful lot of you are impatient. People keep talking about Ange not being backed, we've spent 400 million since he joined. Is he a first class manger? Not in my book. He displays a degree of arrogance, and has had run ins with supporters, the like of which didn't occur under Nicholson or Burkinshaw. he is careful to avoid praising or criticising his colleagues, but usually goes out of his way to praise the players. He is a deflector. His tactics worked in Scotland after Celtic bought 12 new players to dominate a league which contained one real competitor. You can have an off day at Ross County and still win. Do it in the EPL and Palace, Ipswich and Leicester will turn you over.

Levy has luckily hit the jackpot with managers a couple of times, he's gone for known winners, up and coming types, and in Ange's case a real shot in the dark, considering his age and experience. I'd prefer to see levy appoint a footballing brains trust, a small group of individuals answering to the board. We are very close to success, every other element is in place, trying to find the last piece of the puzzle is my preference, versus losing the company that made us a desirable option for those willing to splash the cash. Is there any guarantee that the next mob are going to be any better?

 

[FITZ]

I recall when Van Der Vaart joined and discovered that the showers in the old training facilities did not work on a regular basis, he thought it was quaint. I also recall how the old stadium was in need of fairly drastic repair. Levy and ENIC have got things wrong, but almost wherever you look you will find supporters who are not happy for one reason or another with their owners. If any prospective purchaser decides to take the plunge and buy the club for 2.5 or 3 billion it will not be because of Poch, Harry Redknapp, Harry Kane or any of our past players or managers. it will be because under ENIC the club has built one of the finest stadiums in the world, and first class training facilities. It has become one of the wealthiest clubs in football. I've been a supporter since 1956, I've seen good and bad times.

Personally, I think we are very close to our goal, but an awful lot of you are impatient. People keep talking about Ange not being backed, we've spent 400 million since he joined. Is he a first class manger? Not in my book. He displays a degree of arrogance, and has had run ins with supporters, the like of which didn't occur under Nicholson or Burkinshaw. he is careful to avoid praising or criticising his colleagues, but usually goes out of his way to praise the players. He is a deflector. His tactics worked in Scotland after Celtic bought 12 new players to dominate a league which contained one real competitor. You can have an off day at Ross County and still win. Do it in the EPL and Palace, Ipswich and Leicester will turn you over.

Levy has luckily hit the jackpot with managers a couple of times, he's gone for known winners, up and coming types, and in Ange's case a real shot in the dark, considering his age and experience. I'd prefer to see levy appoint a footballing brains trust, a small group of individuals answering to the board. We are very close to success, every other element is in place, trying to find the last piece of the puzzle is my preference, versus losing the company that made us a desirable option for those willing to splash the cash. Is there any guarantee that the next mob are going to be any better?

Impatient