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Van Der Vaart

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
Agreed. My (only) son's middle name is Rafael- and that only because the wife wouldn't allow it as a first name.

Fucking LOVED Van der Vaart. And yeah, somehow you could feel that when he kissed the badge he actually meant it.
LOVE THIS MATE!
 

Timberwolf

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2008
10,328
50,217
He was so good. AVB getting rid of him was like Graham getting rid of Ginola.
I reckon we would've got 4th in that 1st AVB season if we'd kept VDV and not signed Sigurdsson.

Siggy got 3 goals in 33 appearances that season.
VDV got 13 in 33 the year before.

Even if VDV wasn't really an AVB type player, there's no way he wouldn't have got more than 3 goals, even if he was only playing for 60 minutes per match.
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,381
17,040
I reckon we would've got 4th in that 1st AVB season if we'd kept VDV and not signed Sigurdsson.

Siggy got 3 goals in 33 appearances that season.
VDV got 13 in 33 the year before.

Even if VDV wasn't really an AVB type player, there's no way he wouldn't have got more than 3 goals, even if he was only playing for 60 minutes per match.

imagine being so stupid to think that in any world Gylfi Sigurdson was a better player than Van Der Vaart.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
imagine being so stupid to think that in any world Gylfi Sigurdson was a better player than Van Der Vaart.

That's not what happened. VDV asked to go back to HSV to be with his family again because they were on the verge of getting divorced and he wanted to try and work things out. They had stayed in Hamburg the whole time while he was with us because she was a presenter for German TV.

We let him go for compassionate reasons not because we didn't think he was up to scratch.
 
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coy-spurs1882

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,989
10,442
I reckon we would've got 4th in that 1st AVB season if we'd kept VDV and not signed Sigurdsson.

Siggy got 3 goals in 33 appearances that season.
VDV got 13 in 33 the year before.

Even if VDV wasn't really an AVB type player, there's no way he wouldn't have got more than 3 goals, even if he was only playing for 60 minutes per match.
i think the main problem was moving bale to center, which forced sigurdsson to the flanks which was definitely a disaster
sticking to 4231 would be better for the team imo

----------------Defoe----------------
-----Bale-----Sigurdsson----Lennon
----------Parker-----Dembele-------
 

Timberwolf

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2008
10,328
50,217
That's not what happened. VDV asked to go back to HSV to be with his family again because they were on the verge of getting divorced and he wanted to try and work things out. They had stayed in Hamburg the whole time while he was with us because she was a presenter for German TV.

We let him go for compassionate reasons not because we didn't think he was up to scratch.
I reckon if there was more will on the part of the club we could've probably persuaded him to stay. Easy to say with hindsight, but didn't he break up with his wife like 2 months after he went back to Hamburg anyway?

I think there was also a definitely an undercurrent of AVB not wanting too many volatile egos in the dressing room, especially after his Chelsea experience. I recall he was very happy to let VDV go and bring in Siggy. If we'd kept Redknapp I would've bet my house on him persuading Rafa to stay.
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,381
17,040
That's not what happened. VDV asked to go back to HSV to be with his family again because they were on the verge of getting divorced and he wanted to try and work things out. They had stayed in Hamburg the whole time while he was with us because she was a presenter for German TV.

We let him go for compassionate reasons not because we didn't think he was up to scratch.

cant be arsed to dig up the quotes but VDV said himself that AVB made it clear he didn’t want him or said that he’d be competing with Gylfi from now on to which VDV took as a form of disrespect and therefore asked to leave.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,355
87,827
VDV left because AVB had said he wasn't guaranteed his place from the off, and he took the hump. He's admitted since that it was a mistake and he should've stayed and earned his spot.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,918
VDV left because AVB had said he wasn't guaranteed his place from the off, and he took the hump. He's admitted since that it was a mistake and he should've stayed and earned his spot.
Always a difficult one to judge. My understanding is VDV thought AVB thought he was in decline. As AVB had just taken over it was reasonable for VDV to think he might be manager for a couple of seasons so he wouldn't get much of a look in.

VDV always seemed like one of those players who just wanted to play.
 

Kiedis

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,926
8,490
Michael Dawson also got told by AVB that he wasn't an automatic starter anymore. He soon forced himself into the team and eventually had one of his better seasons. People deal with challenges in different ways.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,918
Michael Dawson also got told by AVB that he wasn't an automatic starter anymore. He soon forced himself into the team and eventually had one of his better seasons. People deal with challenges in different ways.
True but VDV was getting s bit older and had had a knee injury. His playing career was coming near an end.
 

Kiedis

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,926
8,490
True but VDV was getting s bit older and had had a knee injury. His playing career was coming near an end.

They're the same age, but I absolutely think we sold him at the right time. He always just grinds my gears with his moaning about how AVB was somehow unfair to him.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,918
They're the same age, but I absolutely think we sold him at the right time. He always just grinds my gears with his moaning about how AVB was somehow unfair to him.
True but with the knee injury and playing style VDV potentially had a shorter playing career than centre backs who often play into their mid 30s.
 

EJWTartanSpur

SC Supporter
Jan 29, 2011
4,805
10,087
I remember this very well. It was classic poor man management by AVB. They bought Sigurdsson, and AVB brought VDV into his office and basically said words to the effect that Sigurdsson was the preferred option and that VDV would have to prove himself and fight for time. In my opinion that is not how you go about things with established players. Yes, VDV could have not taken umbrage and seen it as disrespect and reacted differently and stayed, but it was poor man management to create this situation. The onus should have been on the new younger player to come in and prove himself and share time or try and dislodge the established players position. There is a certain culture or level of respect for players that have been fulcrums of the team, that it makes sense to adhere to or smartly work around. I’m not talking about pandering to or molly coddling star players, I just think this situation could have been easily avoided with a little better personal skills and reading of players characters tbh and we could easily have had him for longer.
 

ClintEastwould

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2012
4,748
9,845
Agreed. My (only) son's middle name is Rafael- and that only because the wife wouldn't allow it as a first name.

Fucking LOVED Van der Vaart. And yeah, somehow you could feel that when he kissed the badge he actually meant it.

I wish some of our current players trolled Arsenal just as much as he did. Yes we have Harry who scores against them for fun but we take the higher ground too much in my opinion. Same goes for Chelsea they both love to unashamedly stick it to us and we instead let the talking get done on the field.
 

eViL

Oliver Skipp's Dad
May 15, 2004
5,840
7,960
True but VDV was getting s bit older and had had a knee injury. His playing career was coming near an end.

Which makes AVB right.. right?

Sig and VDV are very similar in terms of output - both could get you 20 goals a season playing in the right role/position. Rafa just had that little bit more personality and got involved with the fans a lot more which will always put him top in the popularity charts.

I personally still think we sold Sig too soon; but, just like Rafa, he's not a player that you can fit in any system.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,918
Which makes AVB right.. right?

Sig and VDV are very similar in terms of output - both could get you 20 goals a season playing in the right role/position. Rafa just had that little bit more personality and got involved with the fans a lot more which will always put him top in the popularity charts.

I personally still think we sold Sig too soon; but, just like Rafa, he's not a player that you can fit in any system.
I have never had a problem with AVB selling VDV. I might be mistaken because I don't watch German football but what I read suggested he wasn't on top of his game when he returned to Germany. Seems we likely did sell him at the right time, possibly could have got one more season out of him.

I do find it strange that people complain about us not selling Eriksen earlier but not VDV.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
Which makes AVB right.. right?

Sig and VDV are very similar in terms of output - both could get you 20 goals a season playing in the right role/position. Rafa just had that little bit more personality and got involved with the fans a lot more which will always put him top in the popularity charts.

I personally still think we sold Sig too soon; but, just like Rafa, he's not a player that you can fit in any system.
Like Sig, is a slightly over valued player by casual observers of the game. His goal output is good, but he is not incisive with his passing, he isn't dynamic or a particularly intelligent player. He rarely takes the game by the scruff of the neck. The only comparable aspect is that they both play more or less the same position, but very different kind of players. Sig's absolute peak is being a useful option for a CL team, never more than that.

Also I want to point out Sig's career high is 14 in all competitions and 11 in the league. VdV has hit 11 goals 5 seasons and broke 14 aslo in 5 seasons. He has 20 goals a season twice. I know it's not fully comparable, but 20 is a very high limit! There is a reason Sig is considered a bit of a flop at Everton, despite posting an all time high strike rate, and that's because they didn't sign the player that they expected. They signed Sig, a decent, if uncreative, passer with good work ethic who can bang in a couple of goals but tends to disappear in matches and isn't anything particularly special.

VdV has explained why he left many times. Basically, yes it was in part to save his marriage and for personal reasons. However, it was also because he didn't feel wanted. If we wanted him to stay than I think he would have stayed, that's what he makes out too. Sigg was a fitter player who had a better engine, so I think that was the logic, and ultimately Bale ended up taking his position and that really transformed him as a player. So I'm not sure if keeping him would have necessarily been better for us, but at the time it was the wrong decision.
 
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