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[Update 63] yidio re:Begovic and Kaboul

monkeytastic

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
30
17
If you choose to believe that Redknapp just gave Storrie/The Gay Damak a list of players and had no say in their terms or the resources allocated to them I feel bad for you, son.

I'm sure he did have a say, that say being "pay what it takes to get them". I'm also sure he's gotten used to other chairman telling him no so when one doesn't he may assume the money's there, as with Abramovic. The wages were high but not in comparison to Chelsea wages. It all depends how much he really knew about the club finances.

But yeah, his signings did pretty much bum-rape portsmouth
 

ValenciaYid

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2008
1,360
14,714
As someone that recruits around ten new staff a year I would feel ashamed to have brought in individuals that so completely failed to adhere to the resources and sustainability of the company (yes, even under The Gay Damak). My staff, my accountability. Of course there is someone over me to veto the signing but it is fact that I have to approve terms and justify the expenditure and end results.

In all seriousness, if anyone can come to me and outline how a manager can justify organising a deal (even if he did have someone that should have vetoed him) that pays John Utaka 80,000 quid a week (that's the best (or indeed worst) part of 5 million pounds per year - four year deal = 20 million pounds sterling of real English money), plus got all his top stars contracts worth similar money or higher, then I'll listen.

Of course, Harry isn't solely responsible but him and Storrie worked on a string of deals that were overwhelmingly irresponsible for Portsmouth Football Club. The Gay Damak's lack of authority is pitiful mitigation and any use of that argument to alleviate Harry from blame is a suggestion that Harry can't be trusted (a caveat noticeable by its absence in posts from his apologists).

Harry worked on these deals, he must share (however small a share) in the blame for them being utter pigshit. He is a wonderful manager and I support him unreservedly but let's be honest, his deals have had a terrible long term effect for Pompey.

If you choose to believe that Redknapp just gave Storrie/The Gay Damak a list of players and had no say in their terms or the resources allocated to them I feel bad for you, son.

I admit I feel much more comfortable in the knowledge that Levy wouldn't let the above happen, but if you're going to give credit for his 'good' signings and money making like this...



...then surely he must take responsibility when things don't work out, too?

Or does he only 'do' outgoing deals? In honesty, I'd imagine the reverse is true. Actually, that's being facetious. I know the reverse is true(r).




:lol: Love it!

Right, thanks Pompey. We'll just right off that 5m debt of yours. But, you see, we have this 20% sell on fee and technically you've just sold Kaboul for 5 million pounds so if you can just give us a cheque for a million quid we'll be on our way. :grin:

Bill, i dont agree there. We are both, like many on here, are in business, some of us run businesses, some of us are part of management and part of the decision making process in these businesses.

Whilst HR may well have said to PS and SG that they must pay what is needed to get the player, the responsibility of deciding on the actualy affordability against the cash flow or budget set must fall with those charged with that responsibility and that is not HR.

Some say that HR will drive the chairman mad for the signings/money, will threaten to leave but seriously if those chairmen are that weak as to concede to that type of demand, then yet again they are the ones who have failed the business.

I dont, fortunately have to answer to anyone in my business, save for my clients but if I decided to do something which I knew I could not afford to do, then I am responsible for those actions.

For me, which ever way you cut it, the fingers of responsibility point clearly at PS & SG and further just to add insult to injury, dont forget how much PS was/is earning at Portsmouth, that in itself speaks volumes as to his failings and gung ho attitude to "cutting your cloth accordingly"

Up The Yids!
 

mattyspurs

It is what it is
Jan 31, 2005
15,280
9,893
Bill, i dont agree there. We are both, like many on here, are in business, some of us run businesses, some of us are part of management and part of the decision making process in these businesses.

Whilst HR may well have said to PS and SG that they must pay what is needed to get the player, the responsibility of deciding on the actualy affordability against the cash flow or budget set must fall with those charged with that responsibility and that is not HR.

Some say that HR will drive the chairman mad for the signings/money, will threaten to leave but seriously if those chairmen are that weak as to concede to that type of demand, then yet again they are the ones who have failed the business.

I dont, fortunately have to answer to anyone in my business, save for my clients but if I decided to do something which I knew I could not afford to do, then I am responsible for those actions.

For me, which ever way you cut it, the fingers of responsibility point clearly at PS & SG and further just to add insult to injury, dont forget how much PS was/is earning at Portsmouth, that in itself speaks volumes as to his failings and gung ho attitude to "cutting your cloth accordingly"

Up The Yids!

This I completely agree with Valencia Yid. Currently running my own business, no one, and I mean no one spends money without my say so. They can advise, they can ask and put forward a damn good case for spending it, but if it is outside of my budget, they get s short swift no.
 

codspur

SC Supporter
Jul 14, 2008
2,720
8,488
Bill, i dont agree there. We are both, like many on here, are in business, some of us run businesses, some of us are part of management and part of the decision making process in these businesses.

Whilst HR may well have said to PS and SG that they must pay what is needed to get the player, the responsibility of deciding on the actualy affordability against the cash flow or budget set must fall with those charged with that responsibility and that is not HR.

Some say that HR will drive the chairman mad for the signings/money, will threaten to leave but seriously if those chairmen are that weak as to concede to that type of demand, then yet again they are the ones who have failed the business.

I dont, fortunately have to answer to anyone in my business, save for my clients but if I decided to do something which I knew I could not afford to do, then I am responsible for those actions.

For me, which ever way you cut it, the fingers of responsibility point clearly at PS & SG and further just to add insult to injury, dont forget how much PS was/is earning at Portsmouth, that in itself speaks volumes as to his failings and gung ho attitude to "cutting your cloth accordingly"

Up The Yids!
:clap:Well said
 

WexfordTownSpur

preposition me arse
Aug 2, 2007
2,615
653
Strange one this! If the are on the verge of bankruptcy, how come the FA have lifted the embargo ban?, surly this must mean that they have got money from somewhere? So this theory doesn't really make sense?

As for the players, well if the price is as good as we think, then OK, good enough squad players, but don't really improve the team at all - Begovic is an okay number two, and Kabul is good to have in the squad should all our other CB's get injured, but sorry he is 5th choice CB in my book!
 

Bromavinci

Dazed & Confuzed
Oct 7, 2005
4,119
1,124
Whilst HR may well have said to PS and SG that they must pay what is needed to get the player, the responsibility of deciding on the actualy affordability against the cash flow or budget set must fall with those charged with that responsibility and that is not HR.

Some say that HR will drive the chairman mad for the signings/money, will threaten to leave but seriously if those chairmen are that weak as to concede to that type of demand, then yet again they are the ones who have failed the business.

While we are talking in a business / organisation sense..

I was reading HR as Human Resources.. made me smile. :)
 

codspur

SC Supporter
Jul 14, 2008
2,720
8,488
Strange one this! If the are on the verge of bankruptcy, how come the FA have lifted the embargo ban?, surly this must mean that they have got money from somewhere? So this theory doesn't really make sense?

As for the players, well if the price is as good as we think, then OK, good enough squad players, but don't really improve the team at all - Begovic is an okay number two, and Kabul is good to have in the squad should all our other CB's get injured, but sorry he is 5th choice CB in my book!


They have only lifted the ban on free transfers and loan signings...however convincing people to go there on a free signing my prove difficult with their weel publicised issues regarding paying player wages for the last two months.
 

WexfordTownSpur

preposition me arse
Aug 2, 2007
2,615
653
They have only lifted the ban on free transfers and loan signings...however convincing people to go there on a free signing my prove difficult with their weel publicised issues regarding paying player wages for the last two months.
Yes I just went out and saw that here;http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8481245.stm

Sounds like they are in a bad way though, looks like Storrie and grant are both ready to walk, so I think we might well end up with a few
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8486073.stm
 

tRiKS

Ledley's No.1 fan
Jun 6, 2005
6,854
142
Getting kaboul (and i doubt much money will change hands) could actually just be a bolster to the run-in. Bassong has gone a bit backwards. I think his postional sense and concentration have been his weak piont in his dip in form. If thats the main critism of Kaboul then they are simialr in that respect but kaboul is quciker and stronger and better in the air so represnts a decent back up I think. Then we sell him back to a french club for a few million more in the summer.

I don't always like to patronise but i think it's noce we're helping out Portsmouth.
 

WexfordTownSpur

preposition me arse
Aug 2, 2007
2,615
653
Getting kaboul (and i doubt much money will change hands) could actually just be a bolster to the run-in. Bassong has gone a bit backwards. I think his postional sense and concentration have been his weak piont in his dip in form. If thats the main critism of Kaboul then they are simialr in that respect but kaboul is quciker and stronger and better in the air so represnts a decent back up I think. Then we sell him back to a french club for a few million more in the summer.

I don't always like to patronise but i think it's noce we're helping out Portsmouth.
I agree with your last statement, and I really do think this is the crux of it, Harry is trying to help them out.
 

ValenciaYid

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2008
1,360
14,714
Getting kaboul in has as much to do with Levy getting our unpaid debt off the books, prior to any more problems at Portsmouth, as it does to needing cover in that area and balancing the books.....you gotta love Levy
 

WexfordTownSpur

preposition me arse
Aug 2, 2007
2,615
653
Getting kaboul in has as much to do with Levy getting our unpaid debt off the books, prior to any more problems at Portsmouth, as it does to needing cover in that area and balancing the books.....you gotta love Levy

I would actually say more! I don't think Kabul was even on our list TBH, this just makes financial sense?
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
Seems weird to me though that Levy didn't just take the Kaboul payments off Crouch's fee last summer.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,333
77,592
It sounds like we're getting Kaboul for this season only as cover. Then we'll probably sell him for a profit in the summer (unless he makes a great impression of course).
 

Bill_Oddie

Everything in Moderation
Staff
Feb 1, 2005
19,120
6,003
Bill, i dont agree there. We are both, like many on here, are in business, some of us run businesses, some of us are part of management and part of the decision making process in these businesses.

Whilst HR may well have said to PS and SG that they must pay what is needed to get the player, the responsibility of deciding on the actualy affordability against the cash flow or budget set must fall with those charged with that responsibility and that is not HR.

Some say that HR will drive the chairman mad for the signings/money, will threaten to leave but seriously if those chairmen are that weak as to concede to that type of demand, then yet again they are the ones who have failed the business.

I dont, fortunately have to answer to anyone in my business, save for my clients but if I decided to do something which I knew I could not afford to do, then I am responsible for those actions.

For me, which ever way you cut it, the fingers of responsibility point clearly at PS & SG and further just to add insult to injury, dont forget how much PS was/is earning at Portsmouth, that in itself speaks volumes as to his failings and gung ho attitude to "cutting your cloth accordingly"

Up The Yids!

Up the Yids, indeed! :up:

Good response. I've never suggested even that Harry is the main problem. Of course, ultimate blame lies with the bosses but the reality of the situation is that Redknapp worked with Storrie on the deals. Even those of us that don't know have to accept that Redknapp was complicit in the deals. A signing has to 'work' in the market it exists in. I couldn't hire someone, even if it were approved higher up, then turn around and say "well, you said it was okay" if they don't turn out.

The only reason I'm still banging this drum is that Redknapp's got away very lightly on these boards. For obvious reasons, but he is experienced enough that we should be able to turn around and say "No, that was shit." The poster above suggests that Portsmouth weren't paying Chelsea wages. Well, sad to say, Utaka is on more than Kalou or Malouda, Campbell was on more than Carvalho, James on as much as Cech (I believe - the last one I couldn't swear to, to be honest). The market makes these bad decisions, decisions that Redknapp was complicit in.

I think it fair he shares in the blame. The fact he isn't going to be able to do so at Spurs is good but doesn't excuse it was his idea in the first place.

This I completely agree with Valencia Yid. Currently running my own business, no one, and I mean no one spends money without my say so. They can advise, they can ask and put forward a damn good case for spending it, but if it is outside of my budget, they get s short swift no.

Quite right. And would you consider them a responsible person? Or question their judgement?

My point isn't 'who is mainly to blame?', it's 'who has some responsibility for a major fuck up?' (Harry has had none on here and too much on Pompey forums in my view) and sadly BAR isn't squeaky clean on this one.
 

ShayLaB

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2006
1,510
1,689
It's a good deal all round. It sounds like we may never have seen the money for Kaboul...this way we get the player (potentially excellent), the IOU is cleared and Pompeys debt goes down. It also goes a long way to extricate us from the legal mess that will ensue if Pompey do not survive. Given what went on before Kaboul may not be overly thrilled by the idea of going back to Spurs but he knows that HR rates him and the madness of the Ramos reign has past.
 

ValenciaYid

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2008
1,360
14,714
Seems weird to me though that Levy didn't just take the Kaboul payments off Crouch's fee last summer.

Youre not wrong but they were seperate deals and youre assuming that Portsmouth didnt attempt to agree deals that were also in some way favourable to them too...
 

$hoguN

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2005
26,626
34,700
ValenciaYid, are you able to confirm if Gudjohnson has put pen to paper yet? and also how close we are to signing Kaboul and Begovic?
 

neogenisis

*Gensy*
Jun 27, 2006
5,903
13,424
Storrie has released a statement on SSN saying he and Grant are staying and that Kaboul and the keeper have been sold to spurs.
 
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