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UEFA EURO 2024 .. June 14th - July 14th

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,528
40,625
Well it's based mainly on the fact that that is where he has played for the last 10 years barring last season.
yeah, dele alli also played there for most of his early career ... and then he didn't ... and for good reason.

even at dortmund bellingham played in a three, a very different prospect to having him sit alongside rice. he's another 'moments' player, you won't get away with that in midfield at the highest level.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
24,978
93,819
Archie Gray in that England midfield by 2026. He is a proper midfield player. Rice is a converted centre half who can run about a bit. Give him the ball when marked he’s clueless .
The criticism of Southgate is that when we play a team who appear better than us, we lose. Harsh but true.
We lose because the other team always have a better midfield than us.
Wharton, Kobbie and Gray sounds ok to me.
Think Rico Lewis and Tyrese Hall (hopefully) will be there too.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
24,978
93,819
I think Netherlands are the closest Southgate's England have come to defeating an evenly-matched opponent. I think it's probably Southgate's best win in tournament football. The win versus Germany in 2021 was emotive and inspiring, but it was an average German team. Nonetheless those two ties stand out as the two top-tier teams England have defeated in tournament football during the last four tournaments.

They have come up short versus virtually every other evenly matched or better opponent they have faced (i.e Croatia, Italy, France and Spain). This is why his record of finals and semi-finals needs to be contextualised: because had his team met better teams earlier in the tournaments, they would probably have gone out earlier, like they did at the last World Cup.

The one thing Southgate's reign has shown is how important a role luck plays. I think it's fairly unlikely England would have progressed beyond the QF if they happened to be on Spain's side of the draw. The fact they avoided all of the major favourites before the final was mainly luck.
The two ties versus Belgium showed Southgate's level up.

Belgium were incredibly underwhelming under Martinez, yet twice we played them within 3 weeks and each game played out exactly the same.

Southgate couldn;t change anything and learnt nothing from the previous encounter. You'd expect caution to be thrown to the wind a bit in a 3rd place-finish game yet England played exactly the same.

We played them a couple more times after that, when Belgium were getting even worse, yet still the exact same underhwhelming performances transpired.
 

Westmorlandspur

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2013
3,982
6,548
Southgate cannot be the manager for the next tournament.

I wish him well, but we've hit our peak under him.

Although, I don't think there's a clear successor either.

Poch or Potter for me.
I can just see England v Argentina at the next World Cup with Poch as our manager . No chance. Lee Carsley gets it. Has won an international trophy. He played for Ireland but is a brummie.
Under 21s played some great football.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
48,077
109,831
That pass map for England is outrageous :wideyed:

It’s absolutely fucking disgusting. But, it goes to show what we’ve said from the start, Southgate has coached no patterns of play or attacking build up in this squad. He’s pissed this team away. I don’t even think Sean Dyche would produce a pass map like that with these players.
 

aliyid

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2004
7,866
23,498
It must only show 'completed' passes otherwise the lines from Pickford would be more like this

1721060449073.png
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
49,582
52,938
It’s absolutely fucking disgusting. But, it goes to show what we’ve said from the start, Southgate has coached no patterns of play or attacking build up in this squad. He’s pissed this team away. I don’t even think Sean Dyche would produce a pass map like that with these players.
Does that mean that nobody actually passed it to Kane? I'm not sure that's accurate (although it wasn't far off).
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
15,492
59,383
Starting to believe his own hype I think.
I wasn't sure if I was being overly critical and harsh on him but Bellingham has looked a different player this tournament, than he has previously for England.
I said a few games ago that he looked like a bit of a diva out there and that opinion has been reinforced as the tournament went on.

Really does seem to be believing his own hype and just expecting things to happen for him, rather than working hard to make things happen.

Kane and Rice stood out as being very poor but Bellingham probably rates as the biggest disappointment for me.
 

joey.leone

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2005
2,144
1,829
Does that mean that nobody actually passed it to Kane? I'm not sure that's accurate (although it wasn't far off).
I remember atleast one pass from Bellingham to Kane which set up a blocked shot from the edge of the box so I'm a little confused by the pass map, it looks shocking though lol.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
21,274
61,397
Bellingham was taking on one too many players by himself. He's still only 21 so I'll let it slide due to age and all that.

Hopefully he learns from this. The bicycle kick was great but that was it really.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
33,192
26,053
He didn’t really get the ball did he. Even the long balls from Pickford he didn’t win.
Nope, not at all, or hardly ever, difficult for him to be involved in the game.

First game, if you can be bothered at all, Trent was literally only looking to pass to Bellingham, or those long diagonals, it was so obvious was frustrating me and it just hindered play, foden throwing his arms up all game for thr ball, never got it.

Team players - not so much from where I viewed it
 

Albertbarich

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2020
7,267
28,101
I wasn't sure if I was being overly critical and harsh on him but Bellingham has looked a different player this tournament, than he has previously for England.
I said a few games ago that he looked like a bit of a diva out there and that opinion has been reinforced as the tournament went on.

Really does seem to be believing his own hype and just expecting things to happen for him, rather than working hard to make things happen.

Kane and Rice stood out as being very poor but Bellingham probably rates as the biggest disappointment for me.
I wonder if stuff went on behind the scenes that we don't know about and Bellingham was upset about whatever it was.

Either way I just hope Southgate realises it's time for a change.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
33,192
26,053
I keep seeing this in articles, manager with player development experience etc.

It doesn't sit right for me, playing internation first team football isnt to develop players but just getting them firing on all cylinders, clubs do the development surely?
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
41,064
99,917
I keep seeing this in articles, manager with player development experience etc.

It doesn't sit right for me, playing internation first team football isnt to develop players but just getting them firing on all cylinders, clubs do the development surely?
No coincidence that our best squads in recent years have come about from players who were coached by Poch, Klopp and Pep. Remember when we had 6 Spurs players in the England Squad in 2018?
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
33,192
26,053
No coincidence that our best squads in recent years have come about from players who were coached by Poch, Klopp and Pep. Remember when we had 6 Spurs players in the England Squad in 2018?
Agree and I'm sure we will see that again soon e ough, the younger England teams are littered with sours players
 
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