UEFA EURO 2024 .. June 14th - July 14th

[talkshowhost86]

It's funny watching all the Gareth haters squirm to say they still don't like him (because they have to keep their stance) but be mellower about it (because they now know they are chatting shit)

The way we played in the first half last night makes me slightly more annoyed at Southgate to be honest.

That's how we should have been playing all tournament and it's clear that was on the instructions of the manager and not just the players.

One way or another we've got to the final and he has to be applauded for that and what he's achieved in previous tournaments.

But the performance last night doesn't suddenly mean the tepid nonsense in the previous 5 games was somehow a masterstroke.

 

[SlotBadger]

as long as the same ref is in charge it’ll be a breeze. Forget the disgraceful penalty award some of his other decisions were borderline match fixing

Which “other decisions” are you referring to?

 

[crokey]

What an extraordinary take

Until the start of the tournament I was still, after all he's achieved, on the fence about Southgate. But I have to admit I've become militantly pro-Southgate after the abuse he's been getting. So undeserved.

Imo there's only two reasonable choices left for Gareth, ok or exceptional. Those still claiming bad are a stain.

It's extremely generous to even have ok as a choice, given his results compared to other England managers.

 

[Styopa]

It's funny watching all the Gareth haters squirm to say they still don't like him (because they have to keep their stance) but be mellower about it (because they now know they are chatting shit)

I don't think so. I believe many of the criticisms have been valid. The team played much better last night than in previous matches in this tournament. Let's not forget that England were just minutes away from being eliminated by Slovakia, saved only by a Bellingham bicycle kick, and only one penalty separated England and Switzerland.

But for sure things clicked last night, particularly in the first half. That was the best I can remember England playing for a long time.

 

[Styopa]

Until the start of the tournament I was still, after all he's achieved, on the fence about Southgate. But I have to admit I've become militantly pro-Southgate after the abuse he's been getting. So undeserved.

Imo there's only two reasonable choices left for Gareth, ok or exceptional. Those still claiming bad are a stain.

It's extremely generous to even have ok as a choice, given his results compared to other England managers.

The problem with becoming "militantly" pro-Southgate in response to the "haters" is that it only fuels divisiveness. When you accuse critics of "chatting shit" it tends to entrench and radicalise their views. That's just how the internet works.

We can all see what's in front of us, how the team has played. It's better to adopt a more nuanced perspective rather than everyone gravitating towards extremes. We can have more interesting and productive discussions with each other that way. Anyone spouting abuse on social media isn't worth giving to fuel to anyway.

 

[talkshowhost86]

If Shaw is fit enough I'd go with the 3 at the back approach (Shaw for Trippier) and then drop Bellingham for Palmer.

Obviously won't happen but Foden needs to be in that central role for me.

 

[teok]

I think the theory that he was trying to play minimal football early on in the tourney to keep gas left in the tank was valid. The analogy being a boxer trying to "keep in it" until the final rounds of the fight, etc.

 

[Trix]

What the Dutch did had a much more significant impact on the game than Southgate's change of formation.

You can keep pissing in the wind with this if you like though.

We will never know will we because he didn't change it in reaction to the Dutch taking control of midfield, he did it at half time before we knew the Dutch change and how it would impact the game.

For me it's this simple we have stumbled to the final playing two 30 minute spells of good football. We are a reactionary team with good enough players, who are able to turn it on once we have gone behind. I don't see Southgate as a good football manager but he's obviously an excellent man manager, and he's certainly a lucky manager. Even if we won it I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Tottenham job in the future, and I doubt anyone in here saying he's a good manager would either, and that tells the full story imo.

 

[Trix]

I think the theory that he was trying to play minimal football early on in the tourney to keep gas left in the tank was valid. The analogy being a boxer trying to "keep in it" until the final rounds of the fight, etc.

Yeah so much easier if you just knock your opponent out in the first round though. You could then be at home in bed by the time the bell for the final round would have rung.

Spain for instance played a full second XI in their final group game because they went out with the intent to win every game as soon as possible. So which team have had the most rest come the knock out stages, England who have played within themselves to conserve energy? Or Spain who have effectively played 1 game less?

 

[teok]

Yeah so much easier if you just knock your opponent out in the first round though. You could then be at home in bed by the time the bell for the final round would have rung.

Spain for instance played a full second XI in their final group game so which team have had the most rest come the knock out stages?

I think he just tried to copy Deschamps/France as the team most like ours that was the most successful.

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

The way we played in the first half last night makes me slightly more annoyed at Southgate to be honest.

That's how we should have been playing all tournament and it's clear that was on the instructions of the manager and not just the players.

One way or another we've got to the final and he has to be applauded for that and what he's achieved in previous tournaments.

But the performance last night doesn't suddenly mean the tepid nonsense in the previous 5 games was somehow a masterstroke.

The Dutch gave us the space, realised their mistake, and did what every other team has done, which is to pack the midfield, sit back, and rely on pace.

Southgate deserves credit for the subs, though. They were absolutely spot on.

I'd be surprised if Spain don't do the same, given the pace they have on the wings.

 

[brasil_spur]

His foot is only as high as the ball though,what is he meant to do if he can’t attempt to block it?
Let Kane shoot and hope he misses.

But anywhere else on the pitch going studs up, missing the ball and connecting with the player is going to be a foul, so same should apply in the penalty area.

 

[Styopa]

I think the theory that he was trying to play minimal football early on in the tourney to keep gas left in the tank was valid. The analogy being a boxer trying to "keep in it" until the final rounds of the fight, etc.

This could be true, although two of England's three knockout matches have gone to extra time, and the third one almost did. I don't know what impact that has, but if we're talking about saving energy etc. then playing an additional half an hour, getting to bed later etc. should be taken into account. Fine margins and all that.

In addition to Spain being able to rest their first team for a match, they've been involved in just one extra time, and have an extra day's rest.

 

[Trix]

I think he just tried to copy Deschamps/France as the team most like ours that was the most successful.

I understand totally what he's doing. I just think it's a poor way to go about things considering the players he has at his disposal.

genuine question for all here........ How many players is Garreth getting close to their best out of?

 

[dannyo]

I think it’s ok to think that Southgate is a predominantly safety first manager and England are largely boring to watch, while also acknowledging that he is also the most consistently successful manager we have ever had, or will probably have for a long time. You can’t knock what he’s achieved, but the individual games in getting there have been largely unforgettable.

He definitely deserves respect for what he’s achieved but it will be good to see what someone else can do with this group of players. He might look like a genius once he’s gone and we’re struggling to make the knockout round of the next World Cup. Who knows?

 

[PCozzie]

Yeah so much easier if you just knock your opponent out in the first round though. You could then be at home in bed by the time the bell for the final round would have rung.

Spain for instance played a full second XI in their final group game because they went out with the intent to win every game as soon as possible. So which team have had the most rest come the knock out stages, England who have played within themselves to conserve energy? Or Spain who have effectively played 1 game less?

Not to mention that England have gone to ET twice because of that caution. Some of Spain's most important players have played maybe fewer than 5 whole games so far, some of England's have played nearer to 7.

 

[HildoSpur]

As a neutral I find it mind boggling that there still appear to be England fans who don't rate Southgate. Most in here had probably never even seen England in a major final and now Southgate has brought you to two! It is (or at least comes across as), I am afraid, arrogance from certain fans who believe England should be easily beating most teams and feel disappointed when they don't. You lads are bonkers. You may not like him but he is objectively and subjectively at least your second best ever England manager and come Sunday he could be your best ever in history. Give the guy some respect.

 

[Mr Pink]

Love your debating style. Two teams change their formation at half time. First of all you just ignore the fact that one of them did. Then you just definitively state the Dutch change had more impact - how the fuck do you know that? The changes didn’t happen in a vacuum. All I can see is that Gareth changed from a system that was working to one that hasn’t worked at any point in the tournament. If he had started the second half with a back 3 then changed to counter the Dutch move if it wasn’t working that’s one thing, but he didn’t - he sent us out in a different formation before he even knew the Dutch had made a change. And it didn’t work, our attacking players totally disappeared second half and they were the better side second half. The fact Watkins scored a brilliant goal out of nowhere doesn’t change that.

Southgate is clearly an excellent man manager - the players love him. The downside is he’s an over cautious tactician. But the most important trait is he’s lucky, so Napoleon would love him

How did I know that?.. because I was watched the fucking game you berk lol.

 

[Grey Fox]

Just like to point out, the only time England won anything there was a Labour government

 

[Yid-ol]

As a neutral I find it mind boggling that there still appear to be England fans who don't rate Southgate. Most in here had probably never even seen England in a major final and now Southgate has brought you to two! It is (or at least comes across as), I am afraid, arrogance from certain fans who believe England should be easily beating most teams and feel disappointed when they don't. You lads are bonkers. You may not like him but he is objectively and subjectively at least your second best ever England manager and come Sunday he would be your best ever in history. Give the guy some respect.

I think it's a mix of Southgate and underperforming players that get the criticism.

Most of the underperforming players are playing out of positions, which really falls on Southgate, the performances (bar the first 30 minutes of the first game and first half of last nights game) have been so disjointed due to that.

I don't rate Southgate as a great manager as it's not nice football to watch. Yes he is getting results and going far in tournaments, but also when we play anyone decent we tend to lose and been helped by a lot of good draws to get us there.

If he manages to beat Spain, I will need to eat my words, but I still fully expect Spain to win.