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UEFA EURO 2024 .. June 14th - July 14th

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
20,050
50,061
That's simply not true. We can argue about which player is better all day long but to suggest that only kane and Bellingham is just wrong.

Every player has faults but walker has consistently been the best of one of the best right backs in the world for a decade. Stones and Guehi are every bit as good as the Spanish pair and yes trippier is out of position but that's the fault of the man who iS responsible for all the issues here.

In midfield well I don't like Saka but he is top class, if the scum sold him he would be fetching insane amounts of money, rice played badly yesterday and yes Rodri is better but he is probably the only one that is, you're talking about the best defensive midfielder in the world against one of the best. Williams looked amazing yesterday but Foden is premier league player of the year , if he was Spanish he would be in that side smashing it and you would be drooling over him moaning that we never get players like that.

The difference between the teams isn't quality it's coaching. The Spanish pressed brilliantly and attacked with purpose in a system that suits their players. We can't press, get lost when in the lead between sitting back and trying to press and have too many players out of position. He picked three right backs yesterday for crying out loud.

I've debated the players as I think you went totally over the top in writing them off but the real point is that the players or talent isn't the issue. It's the coach and his mentality.
Spot on great post.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,986
16,491
Having players who are in top class teams, doesn't mean they are absolutely top class themselves.

We have a lot of good players, but I'm not convinced they are as good as many think. How many are the best player in their team - Kane, with maybe Bellingham getting into that conversation?

Trippier is not a LB and is probably past his peak anyway. Saka is good at what he does but limited, Trent is a Hollywood player we can't afford to carry, Walker is exceptional at some parts of his game but often struggles to complete a 10 yard pass.

Watching Spain v Italy last night was eye opening (again) about the ability of players to take the ball under pressure and calmly move into space and find a pass. I think Southgate's tactics are making our players look worse, but I'd say that out of all our players maybe Foden and Kane get into that Spanish side.

I think at the very least Kane, Saka, Walker, Foden, Bellingham and Rice are some of the best players in their teams. And they're playing for some of the best teams in the world. Just look at their output and number of appearences they made last season. If they weren't top class, they wouldn't be posting these sorts of numbers for top teams:

Kane played 45 times for Bayern last season, scored 44 goals and made 12 assists; Saka played 47 times for Arsenal, scored 20 goals and made 14 assists; Foden played 53 times for Man C, scored 27 goals and made 12 assists; Bellingham played 42 times for Madrid, scored 23 and made 13 assists; Rice played 51 times for Arsenal, scored 7 goals and made 10 assists; Kyle Walker played 47 times for Man C.
 

cwy21

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2009
10,586
9,814
We're blessed to watch not just one but two English refs today! (Oliver has Slovenia/Ukraine and Taylor has France/Netherlands)
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
9,846
27,494
That's simply not true. We can argue about which player is better all day long but to suggest that only kane and Bellingham is just wrong.

Every player has faults but walker has consistently been the best of one of the best right backs in the world for a decade. Stones and Guehi are every bit as good as the Spanish pair and yes trippier is out of position but that's the fault of the man who iS responsible for all the issues here.

In midfield well I don't like Saka but he is top class, if the scum sold him he would be fetching insane amounts of money, rice played badly yesterday and yes Rodri is better but he is probably the only one that is, you're talking about the best defensive midfielder in the world against one of the best. Williams looked amazing yesterday but Foden is premier league player of the year , if he was Spanish he would be in that side smashing it and you would be drooling over him moaning that we never get players like that.

The difference between the teams isn't quality it's coaching. The Spanish pressed brilliantly and attacked with purpose in a system that suits their players. We can't press, get lost when in the lead between sitting back and trying to press and have too many players out of position. He picked three right backs yesterday for crying out loud.

I've debated the players as I think you went totally over the top in writing them off but the real point is that the players or talent isn't the issue. It's the coach and his mentality.
I'm not saying they are bad players (nobody is paying bad players £100k a week plus!), just not necessarily the often bandied about "world class" that so many England fans seem to think?

Opinions, but I'd also like to know how many right backs (for example) everyone has watched outside of the PL? Walker is absolutely fabulous at recovery tackles and using his physicality to stop opposition breaks, but ask him to pick a pass at the right time and he more often than not frustrates - even the goal was a poor cross that bobbled into Kane's path. .

I really think we overrate players because they are in good PL teams.

Saying all of this, Southgate should absolutely be getting more out of the squad he has.
 

TEESSIDE1

Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
Jul 3, 2006
15,460
19,395
With Southgate harping on about how we’re missing Kalvin Phillips, I really don’t get why he hasn’t looked at his squad and saw the obvious solution - Stones. He’s spent most of the last 2 seasons playing alongside Rodri as opposed to in defence. He’s used to playing there and he would give us the solidarity Southgate craves which one would expect it would allow the front 4 to stay further up the pitch.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,940
32,751
So what would be your starting line up?
Multi-faceted answer to that, that I'll try to keep as brief as I can.

In all cases for this tournament desperately need an outlet on the left, who will keep a fixed position there and offer verticality. If the only real option available is Gordon (who I don't rate highly tbh) then he will have to play.

Then it depends on the England approach. If they want to keep trying to play through teams with similar personnel they have to try Wharton and gain a semblance of comfort on the ball and a natural possession player in the centre of the park. The right flank you can mix and match, Saka as another winger, Foden can drift inside better from the right (and with a natural fullback behind), or Palmer as a bit of both.

Pickford; Walker, Stones, Guehi, Trippier (Shaw); Rice, Wharton; Someone, Bellingham, Gordon; Kane

I'm not saying this would be my approach, but if they feel they need to sit deeper then they have to commit to playing on the counter and pack the attacking roles with players who can carry the ball and are a running threat into space going the other way. No point in having all of the likes of Kane, Foden, and even Bellingham in the team if you're sitting deep and springing forwards at pace. This is where the likes of Gordon, Eze, Watkins, Bowen might come into the equation.

If I had a blank canvas, I think trying to build a current England team around what you'd consider the key players it seems pretty obvious to me to go for a Poch Spurs type tactic. 4-2-3-1, defensive box of centre backs and two strong disciplined centre mids, couple of very attacking fullbacks providing width, tuck the wide players in (so many options that could be picked, can tweak selection to individual match tactics) so the front four is close to each other to link up and flood that area, Belle does his superior version of Dele running into the box off of Kane.
 

aliyid

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2004
7,307
21,273
In midfield well I don't like Saka but he is top class, if the scum sold him he would be fetching insane amounts of money
Saka is such a frustrating player to watch, I was sitting with an Arsenal fan during the game and I was praising Saka for how he fronts up defenders and takes them on but the frustrating part is that he never seems to complete the pass after he's made a yard of space. Even his assist against Serbia was a deflected cross (he tried hitting it low but it looped off the defender to be perfect for Jude running in).

I don't know if it's me watching him through Spurs tinted glasses but he's so close to being top class but needs to pick a better final ball more often.
 

LSUY

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2005
24,142
67,441
UEFA needs to introduce a Balkans Championship because I’d watch the fuck out of that
The Balkans in Euro 2024 so far...
  • Serbia reported Kosovo - a Kosovar journalist has had his accreditation revoked for making the Albania eagle hand gesture in front of Serbian fans
  • Kosovo reported Serbia - following Serbia fans displaying nationalist banners showing Kosovo as part of Serbia & chanting “Kosovo is the heart of Serbia”
  • Serbia reported Albania - following Albanian fans chanting "Kill a Serb"
  • Serbia reported Croatia - for chanting the same thing as the Albanian fans above
  • Macedonia reported Albania - following the Croatia-Albania match an Albanian player led the fans in "Fuck Macedonia" chants
And on top of all this is the throwing of objects, lighting flares, and pitch invasions. The tournament's only been going on for a week. UEFA's going to make a fortune in fines alone.
 

Yid-ol

Just-outside Edinburgh
Jan 16, 2006
31,742
20,146
With Southgate harping on about how we’re missing Kalvin Phillips, I really don’t get why he hasn’t looked at his squad and saw the obvious solution - Stones. He’s spent most of the last 2 seasons playing alongside Rodri as opposed to in defence. He’s used to playing there and he would give us the solidarity Southgate craves which one would expect it would allow the front 4 to stay further up the pitch.

Thought the same. We need a defensive player there to hold the midfield, yet he puts a player there that everyone says should be not on the pitch or further up because he can't defend.

Plus how can he find solutions to the issue if he keeps playing the same squad which isn't working.
 

DenverSpur

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2011
2,316
6,177
Multi-faceted answer to that, that I'll try to keep as brief as I can.

In all cases for this tournament desperately need an outlet on the left, who will keep a fixed position there and offer verticality. If the only real option available is Gordon (who I don't rate highly tbh) then he will have to play.

Then it depends on the England approach. If they want to keep trying to play through teams with similar personnel they have to try Wharton and gain a semblance of comfort on the ball and a natural possession player in the centre of the park. The right flank you can mix and match, Saka as another winger, Foden can drift inside better from the right (and with a natural fullback behind), or Palmer as a bit of both.

Pickford; Walker, Stones, Guehi, Trippier (Shaw); Rice, Wharton; Someone, Bellingham, Gordon; Kane

I'm not saying this would be my approach, but if they feel they need to sit deeper then they have to commit to playing on the counter and pack the attacking roles with players who can carry the ball and are a running threat into space going the other way. No point in having all of the likes of Kane, Foden, and even Bellingham in the team if you're sitting deep and springing forwards at pace. This is where the likes of Gordon, Eze, Watkins, Bowen might come into the equation.

If I had a blank canvas, I think trying to build a current England team around what you'd consider the key players it seems pretty obvious to me to go for a Poch Spurs type tactic. 4-2-3-1, defensive box of centre backs and two strong disciplined centre mids, couple of very attacking fullbacks providing width, tuck the wide players in (so many options that could be picked, can tweak selection to individual match tactics) so the front four is close to each other to link up and flood that area, Belle does his superior version of Dele running into the box off of Kane.
Agree with your ( I’m also not a fan of Gordon but he’s the best fit from the squad there) and like your 4231 idea as well in which I’d probably go with Wharton and Mainoo as Rice lacks discipline.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
22,947
83,272
Rice doesn't just lack discipline either, he isn't a 360 type player.

Just saw a few clips of him receiving. He has a look over his shoulder and even if the opposition are 10m away from him, his first touch is back toward goal, he doesn't receive with an open posture or have that comfortable ability to turn and play with positivity.

He's a see space and drive into it with the ball type.

We need a pivot type alongside him.
 
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