Tottenham Takeover Talk

[For the love of Spurs]

Yes I did and I also mentioned the difference is the interest payments on the stadium, if we did not have to pay it then where would the money go?

It's not a regular occurrence though is it, their wage bill dropped £32 Million before that happened. Every top class player at some point in their career was Cheap. High transfers fees and wages don't win trophies. Top class scouting and coaching do.

No, high transfer fees and high wages plus good coaching and scouting win trophies. City and Liverpool as examples. Brighton are probably the best at scouting, they won’t be winning the league. Our issue is wages, we don’t pay that of elites so we don’t attract elite players. There is only so much picking up gems and getting innovative managers can do.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

The grass is not always greener

Don't forget these..........

Be careful what you wish for
Don't want to do a Leeds

 

[SUIYHA]

You've said they're spending over 30m more per season and then said there is little difference between both clubs.

Arsenal spent 100m on a player. We are never ever in those conversations let alone buying one of them. Until we buy proven quality players we won't be improving quickly and I we very rarely do that. There is 25 years of evidence to back that up.

In fairness - they had negative net spend this summer to make up for that one which very much appears to be an exception rather than a rule. Can only imagine the meltdown on here if we'd come within one game of winning the title and were crying out for a new CF to be the cherry on the cake, then Levy only gave the manager budget for backup CB and CMs which was funded by selling off a load of squad players.

 

[midoshairband]

 

[Trix]

In fairness - they had negative net spend this summer to make up for that one which very much appears to be an exception rather than a rule. Can only imagine the meltdown on here if we'd come within one game of winning the title and were crying out for a new CF to be the cherry on the cake, then Levy only gave the manager budget for backup CB and CMs which was funded by selling off a load of squad players.

The "exception to the rule" window is exactly what is required from time to time, and all the vast majority of us are asking for. Going the extra mile once in a blue moon to bring in the difference makers when you have seen the winning line is very close. The only time we've had those "exception to the rule" windows under Enic is when we have been faced with relegation and they've panicked because going down would obliterate the clubs value.

 

[Stamford]

Yes I did and I also mentioned the difference is the interest payments on the stadium, if we did not have to pay it then where would the money go?

It's not a regular occurrence though is it, their wage bill dropped £32 Million before that happened. Every top class player at some point in their career was Cheap. High transfers fees and wages don't win trophies. Top class scouting and coaching do.

But isn't that why we have the NFL, concerts etc to make up the gap, we can't laud levy for his good business acumen and not see the results of it.

The wage bill and the final league table are usually like for like. Increase the wage bill and we'll climb the table pretty quickly

 

[RELISYS]

No, high transfer fees and high wages plus good coaching and scouting win trophies. City and Liverpool as examples. Brighton are probably the best at scouting, they won’t be winning the league. Our issue is wages, we don’t pay that of elites so we don’t attract elite players. There is only so much picking up gems and getting innovative managers can do.

Arsenal finished second with a lower wage bill then ours and where challenging City for the title.

We had the best team in the league under Pochettino thanks to good scouting and coaching, Leicester title win was because of good scouting and coaching. Our current Chief Scout was involved in both setups, he also helped build the current Aston Villa team. Brighton keep selling their best players, if they kept them and with a Manager like Pochettino, they would be challenging for the league thanks to good scouting and coaching. There are so many good examples of what good scouting and coaching can do.

I always find the wage argument interesting as a reason why Clubs win trophies. Are they winning trophies because they are paying more or are they paying more because they are winning, for example because of high bonuses or a big share of the prize.

 

[sidford]

Arsenal finished second with a lower wage bill then ours and where challenging City for the title.

We had the best team in the league under Pochettino thanks to good scouting and coaching, Leicester title win was because of good scouting and coaching. Our current Chief Scout was involved in both setups, he also helped build the current Aston Villa team. Brighton keep selling their best players, if they kept them and with a Manager like Pochettino, they would be challenging for the league thanks to good scouting and coaching. There are so many good examples of what good scouting and coaching can do.

I always find the wage argument interesting as a reason why Clubs win trophies. Are they winning trophies because they are paying more or are they paying more because they are winning, for example because of high bonuses or a big share of the prize.

Sorry maybe I'm misinterpreting what you have said above but are you saying spurs have a higher wage bill then arsenal? That's not true and hasn't been for 15+years minimum

 

[Trix]

Arsenal finished second with a lower wage bill then ours and where challenging City for the title.

We had the best team in the league under Pochettino thanks to good scouting and coaching, Leicester title win was because of good scouting and coaching. Our current Chief Scout was involved in both setups, he also helped build the current Aston Villa team. Brighton keep selling their best players, if they kept them and with a Manager like Pochettino, they would be challenging for the league thanks to good scouting and coaching. There are so many good examples of what good scouting and coaching can do.

I always find the wage argument interesting as a reason why Clubs win trophies. Are they winning trophies because they are paying more or are they paying more because they are winning, for example because of high bonuses or a big share of the prize.

Apart from Leicester's 500/1 anomaly and biggest surprise upset English football has ever seen(and then they faded into obscurity), none of those teams you've mentioned won anything, including Arsenal since they started lowering their wage bill.

 

[RELISYS]

Sorry maybe I'm misinterpreting what you have said above but are you saying spurs have a higher wage bill then arsenal? That's not true and hasn't been for 15+years minimum

Our wage bill was higher in 2022/2023, it's been increasing significantly since the stadium move. Arsenal finished second in 2022/2023.

Spurs Wage Bill for the past 4 Years.
2019/2020 = £181 Million
2020/2021 = £204 Million
2021/2022 = £209 Million
2022/2023 = £251 Million

Arsenal Wage Bill for the last 4 Years.
2019/2020 = 225 Million
2020/2021 = 244 Million
2021/2022 = 212 Million
2022/2023 = 234 Million

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Ah the old pay more wages merry go round , according to Capology on which many seem to rely , Bentancur 27 is on exactly the same wage £75,000 a week as Archie Gray 18 .
Hope no one is going to use Capology as their wages guide.

 

[mil1lion]

They performed at the Tyson v Paul fight, commentator called them the "world famous ..." so I guess that's true.

There's a documentary series on Netflix on them as well, got a 2nd season commissioned

 

[RELISYS]

Apart from Leicester's 500/1 anomaly and biggest surprise upset English football has ever seen(and then they faded into obscurity), none of those teams you've mentioned won anything, including Arsenal since they started lowering their wage bill.

I never said they won anything, but good scouting and coaching brought them extremely close. Wenger constantly won trophies with a lower wage bill and net spend compared to his rivals.

 

[thebenjamin]

Our wage bill was higher in 2022/2023, it's been increasing significantly since the stadium move. Arsenal finished second in 2022/2023.

Spurs Wage Bill for the past 4 Years.
2019/2020 = £181 Million
2020/2021 = £204 Million
2021/2022 = £209 Million
2022/2023 = £251 Million

Arsenal Wage Bill for the last 4 Years.
2019/2020 = 225 Million
2020/2021 = 244 Million
2021/2022 = 212 Million
2022/2023 = 234 Million

And we have obviously got very scared by having a competitive wage bill carrying experienced internationals, and pivoted hard away from that high. We've slashed the wage bill in the last 2 years, getting rid of 7 of the top 8 earners--Kane, Perisic, Lloris, Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Lo Celso and Dier, only Son remains on big money--and they've been replaced by players on much lower wages. Solanke is apparently on 100K, Johnson on 70K, VDV 50K. Even Romero is yet to upgrade his contract since arriving from Italy, and absolute crickets on that, the expectation that we cash in on him this summer. I'd be surprised if our wage bill for this season is higher than 7th or 8th largest in the league.

So the trend of where we're going is clearly to a much younger squad on lower wages without carrying the expensive burden of established star players.

 

[mil1lion]

The "exception to the rule" window is exactly what is required from time to time, and all the vast majority of us are asking for. Going the extra mile once in a blue moon to bring in the difference makers when you have seen the winning line is very close. The only time we've had those "exception to the rule" windows under Enic is when we have been faced with relegation and they've panicked because going down would obliterate the clubs value.

Ok Ange you know what you've got to do. Down to the relationship zone we go

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

We lack the ambition and intent to actually win things. The drive for that just isn't there.

I wonder what wages that is on a week

 

[mil1lion]

I think people mention wages because it's generally a reflection of quality. It's just because people have been bringing up our transfer spend which is a reasonable amount. Yet the reality is that a lot of that budget is an Investment to the future. So that's why wages came up in response to the transfer fee. We spent a fair bit on Gray for example but we are signing a prospect where maybe we could get an established player for the same money. The wages comes in because an established player will typically earn more than a prospect. It's like we will only spend high wages when a player comes good from a young age. They just won't take the risk possibly in part because of Ndombele.

 

[Yiddo100]

Love to see it

 

[blodge99]

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I think people mention wages because it's generally a reflection of quality. It's just because people have been bringing up our transfer spend which is a reasonable amount. Yet the reality is that a lot of that budget is an Investment to the future. So that's why wages came up in response to the transfer fee. We spent a fair bit on Gray for example but we are signing a prospect where maybe we could get an established player for the same money. The wages comes in because an established player will typically earn more than a prospect. It's like we will only spend high wages when a player comes good from a young age. They just won't take the risk possibly in part because of Ndombele.

I understand all of that but (shame on me) I don't care about any of it really

For me, It all takes away from what the actual problem is. It's deflection, it starts to make the actual problem irrelevant. Talk long enough about wages, net spend and all the other magic things and it starts to look like a justification or excuse for the complete lack of ambition shown at the top.

Of course, I do understand that a lot of people won't see it that way, this is IMO of course