Tottenham Takeover Talk

[ukdy]

Always. Add to it a disappointing draw to start the season and a disappointing loss against Newcastle and general ‘meh’ over our transfer window, this thread has become the, “ENIC is fattening the goose to be bought by lowering wages”, and as such our ambition will always be limited by the self imposed financial restraints that seems to be Danny’s strategy… meaning we are impeding our ability to complete at the top. And some arent feeling too keen on Ange at the moment.

I hope it all works out well. But life has been awful for a while now. So, perspective and all that. I can’t go full chicken little!!! Too much other shit to deal with. Life.

And @ukdy … for fuck sake, stop being such a little brat with all the “OT” neg reps. SeriousLu, dude. Lighten up.

Thanks for the name calling. OT is just that... off topic. I don't put one to neg anyone, as that's childish.

Keep it on topic, and then you won't need to cry about fake internet points. You can OT this if you like chum.

 

[ukdy]

FFS - Take the player talk to their respective threads.


My head is spinning trying to read about dividends, Romero, Odobert, hotels etc all in one thread.

1000% agree. purple and gold has escaped the containment unit.

 

[robotsonic]

I don't think much of that applies to us. We are supposedly in a very good position when it comes to PSR and our wage to turnover ratio is 46% (I think this might have even since decreased due to player outgoings).

"I think" is doing so much work in this thread in general. Any discussion about wage to turnover is based on 22-23 accounts which includes 56.2m of UEFA competition money (10%+ of our entire turnover) that will have evaporated from current year's accounts. I don't mean to pick on this post in particular but it's mystifying how anyone can even form an opinion on the direction of travel of this situation without even looking at...the direction of travel. Increased running and staffing costs year on year to the 10's of millions, and no UEFA money.

Even if you want to imagine that "OK, we lost the CL money, but we got rid of some high earners, that should even it out!", we'd have to have got rid of 11 players earning 100k a week avg. to recoup that loss of revenue alone, never mind the increased running costs of the club increasing 25% on the year £130m.

If nothing else changed in this current year but losing that UEFA revenue, then we have the same wage/turnover as Arsenal and United, for whatever that's worth (nothing), but the reality is that our costs increase year on year on year, spending more on players, more on wages, more on amortisation and on and on. And we have knowingly lost European football revenue.

Between 21-22 and 22-23 our turnover increased 106m, but 46m of that was the CL money (having made 10m in the Conference League the season prior). In the same period our expenses (wages and other) increased 89m. Amortisation and player impairment another increase of 38m (so we're losing 128m more, and recouped 46m on being in the CL over the Conference, but now we are presumably now spending the increased amount with no European football money whatsoever). We made a pre tax loss across the whole piece of £94.7m.

I'm not sure how football en masse trying to reduce running costs is somehow irrelevant to us whether we're punting about for a sale of a stake or not, and I don't understand how some seem to think that we are somehow richer and more able than we obviously are from what we report because we have a sweet turnover. We need that turnover just to stay at the level we are at (which is why we built the stadium to support it).

Any focus on wage/turnover is just absolutely maddening. Look at the graph of the state of this. High wage to turnover ratio is not desirable, it's the sign of either a failing club desperately reaching to stay in the league (and in 3 of the top 5 cases failing in Leicester, Norwich, So'ton, plus Burnley on 75%), being a club that has to sell all of your best players to other clubs to make up the shortfall (Wolves, Palace) or bankrolled by a sugar daddy/bent money (Villa, Chelsea, Newcastle) or completely fucked from all angles (Everton).

All of the sustainably managed non-sugar daddy clubs in the league in the above graph are at the bottom, outside of Liverpool, and fair play to them if they can back that up, but again they have a reach that we don't and won't without some sustained success. It won't take much of a shift next year for us to not be bottom of this list and it be Arsenal instead, at which point I presume some will start using the fact we're not bottom and a club that is bottom are achieving more than us as the new stick to beat the club with.

Fact is, moaning about the wages we pay (and PSL situation to boot) as a percentage of our turnover is absolutely pointless as it's always based on out-of-date data and it doesn't take much more than not making the CL these days for the number to change, which it will this year having shit the bed on 10%+ of our turnover with club running costs increasing out the arsehole. It also just doesn't mean anything it terms of success when the only clubs that ever regularly challenge for anything anyway are in the bottom half of the list or actually in the relegation zone of it, Chelsea the exception of course, but fuck that.

 

[DenverSpur]

I don't really believe this, ENIC/LEVY know what they value the club at and a lower wage bill isn't going to change that or increase the value a great deal. If I where an investor and a business I was interesting in started cutting costs to attract investments, I would think they where having financial issues.

The wage to revenue ratio is another meaningless stat just like NET spend.

In 2022, it was 47 Percent.
In 2023, It was 45 Percent due to Champions League revenue.

And this is an estimate, when the next set of account are published I think it's going to be about 56 Percent, since wages increased by 20 Percent in 2023 and with the loss of Champions League and no other European football, revenue obviously was reduced.

We should be looking at the actual figures, not wages as a percentage, as it can be misleading and think investment isn't being made, our wage bill in 2023 was £251 Million in 2018 it was £147 Million, an increase of 70 Percent in the last 5 Years, that's hardly a sign on not willing to invest.

We have been crying out for years for Levy to get rid of the deadwood, even if it means we take a financial loss on the players we have bought, which is what he has finally done and as a consequence the wage bill will obviously be lower, but instead of using this as something positive, something that clears out the decks and giving us more scope to increase the wages of our young squad in future, to reward players that are actually performing for us on the pitch rather then some mercenaries who have done nothing for us people are using the new wage to revenue ratio as the new stick to beat the Club with.

Sensible post like this are very frowned on here. You have to spout doom and gloom and castigate Levy.

 

[sundanceyid10]

This might be unpopular, but I really do hope there is a takeover soon because every year feels like the same since ENIC took over.

Off the field projects to complete, always left short on the field, manager not being backed, decreasing our wages, key targets too expensive, ticket price increases and so on. All whilst our chairman earns the highest salary in the league, and our match day fans pay the highest prices.

Thanks ENIC for the stadium and low wages to turnover ratio, but think it's time for someone else to have a go.

I agree because it has all gone stale, a lot of talk always with us about projects and where we are with ours. Well we are not going backwards or forwards, it’s just sideways, it’s been sideways for a very long time, with trends that never seem to end (not turning up for big games, folding under pressure being a big one). We have changed managers (countless ones) philosophy’s, players, little has changed through these failing's or underachievements is maybe a better word, other than the one common denominator, the ownership. There has been none zero winning mentality under pretty much the entire period our present owners have been in control. This has gone on so long I see little evidence of it changing. Maybe they measure success in other ways because it isn’t trophies.

I like the new manager, I think he has a good desire and attitude towards winning, but that said he has an uphill battle I think in the environment he is in.

 

[Pellshek]

I think Levy is a business genius. I can even bring myself to sympathise with most of his managerial appointments, as unsuccessful as they've been.

But we were failing - both on and off the pitch - for a long, long time before Levy came along. At least now we're failing in fantastic financial condition, underpinned by the long-term sustainability the stadium and other infrastructure bring. We are among the very best run pro sporting organisations on the planet.

But we never win anything!! Well, tell that to all the owners, managers, directors and shareholders for any year after 1961. They never won anything either! (I nod my cap to Keith, and hope he'll excuse my rhetoric. 40th anniversary. We remember).

Point is, I want Levy to take over ownership from Lewis. There's no need for Amanda Stavely for goodness sake. Levy is her x1000, and would be able to find backers just as easily as her. He already owns 30% of Enic, which owns 87% of Spurs. So grab some of Joe's share, leave the 13% floating, and get some external investment in for the rest. And he stays as chairman.

 

[UncleBuck]

I think Levy is a business genius. I can even bring myself to sympathise with most of his managerial appointments, as unsuccessful as they've been.

But we were failing - both on and off the pitch - for a long, long time before Levy came along. At least now we're failing in fantastic financial condition, underpinned by the long-term sustainability the stadium and other infrastructure bring. We are among the very best run pro sporting organisations on the planet.

But we never win anything!! Well, tell that to all the owners, managers, directors and shareholders for any year after 1961. They never won anything either! (I nod my cap to Keith, and hope he'll excuse my rhetoric. 40th anniversary. We remember).

Point is, I want Levy to take over ownership from Lewis. There's no need for Amanda Stavely for goodness sake. Levy is her x1000, and would be able to find backers just as easily as her. He already owns 30% of Enic, which owns 87% of Spurs. So grab some of Joe's share, leave the 13% floating, and get some external investment in for the rest. And he stays as chairman.

I don’t think anyone can doubt Levy’s commercial and off field dealings, if when ENIC took over all them years ago you’d have said we had the infrastructure we did no one would have believed you.
This is where the ManU/Ineos approach is quite interesting and I could see how either an investment in the club or DL buying out part of JL and removing himself from the football side would be the only way we could get the club performing on the pitch.
We’ve now got a recruitment team in place so DL needs to leave them to get on with it and tell the world he has nothing to do with football operations.
Won’t happen overnight though which might disappoint a few!

 

[Trent Crimm]

I think Levy is a business genius. I can even bring myself to sympathise with most of his managerial appointments, as unsuccessful as they've been.

But we were failing - both on and off the pitch - for a long, long time before Levy came along. At least now we're failing in fantastic financial condition, underpinned by the long-term sustainability the stadium and other infrastructure bring. We are among the very best run pro sporting organisations on the planet.

But we never win anything!! Well, tell that to all the owners, managers, directors and shareholders for any year after 1961. They never won anything either! (I nod my cap to Keith, and hope he'll excuse my rhetoric. 40th anniversary. We remember).

Point is, I want Levy to take over ownership from Lewis. There's no need for Amanda Stavely for goodness sake. Levy is her x1000, and would be able to find backers just as easily as her. He already owns 30% of Enic, which owns 87% of Spurs. So grab some of Joe's share, leave the 13% floating, and get some external investment in for the rest. And he stays as chairman.

Levy Burner Account alert.