Tottenham Takeover Talk - New Poll Added

[Stamford]

Ange said himself during pre-season that he considers Gray & Bergvall to be ready now. If they're not ready now, perhaps the club was misguided in backing him in signing them, rather than failed to back him. The alternative is that Ange was lying, even though doing so only creates a rod for his own back.

But what is he meant to say. If he said this was a cub signing like Conte did everyone would be calling for his head.

I dont think anyone is unhappy with Gray or Bergvall, these are the kind of risks we should take. But we have somehow come to accept just this and one first team upgrade. That isnt even standing still, it's going backwards.

Jose probably didnt want Gedson Fernandes or Rodon, Conte likely didnt want Spence or Lenglet. We need to buy more ready made players, other clubs in our tax bracket do so we should.

Ange has to do better, thought he was very poor on Saturday but the squad is bang average honestly.

 

[alfie103]

Why does anyone need CBS or Forbes to work out the financials it's all readily available in the UK from companies house or spurs website

2021 operating profit £97.1 million - Loss after football trading, depreciation & tax £83.8 m
2022 operating profit £112.3 m. - Loss after football trading, depreciation & tax £50.1 m
2023 operating profit £138.7 m. - Loss after football trading, depreciation & tax £86.8 m.

But doesn't the club itself decide the methods for calculating amortisation and depreciation figures? There is a difference of £225 million between the operating profit we made in 2023 and the loss in 2023, where has that money gone?

 

[Trix]

But what is he meant to say. If he said this was a cub signing like Conte did everyone would be calling for his head.

I dont think anyone is unhappy with Gray or Bergvall, these are the kind of risks we should take. But we have somehow come to accept just this and one first team upgrade. That isnt even standing still, it's going backwards.

Jose probably didnt want Gedson Fernandes or Rodon, Conte likely didnt want Spence or Lenglet. We need to buy more ready made players, other clubs in our tax bracket do so we should.

Ange has to do better, thought he was very poor on Saturday but the squad is bang average honestly.

Indeed, the mental gymnastics going on to show he was "backed" is staggering. Was he happy with the players we brought in? Yes I'd say he was. Did he change his tune from what he was saying when he first came in to what he was saying at the end of the second Summer transfer window? Also yes.

He signed a 3 year deal, saying he was coming to win stuff, it only became a longer term project towards the end of this Summer just gone. that's fine and maybe he decided it was going to take much longer to get where he wanted to be, but if that's the case considering the age and profile of the players bought this Summer and his talk of competing for more than just one trophy he will need to sign another 3-4 year deal at least after the current one, because all these teenagers and players in their early 20's won't be at that level for another 4 or 5 years at least without some serious additions with experience to help them. We also need to hope all these teenagers and players in their early 20's will be extending their contracts as well, because they'll all be off on a free if that doesn't happen.

 

[SlickMongoose]

But doesn't the club itself decide the methods for calculating amortisation and depreciation figures? There is a difference of £225 million between the operating profit we made in 2023 and the loss in 2023, where has that money gone?

Isn't most amortisation done over the lifetime of the player's contract? So spend £100m for a player on a 5 year contract = £20m per year? I don't think a club can just randomly decide to vary it. The problem if you don't include it is that you end up not counting transfer spend as a cost at all. The big differences between operating profit and net profit are transfer spend amortisation, depreciation on buildings (mostly the stadium) and interest payments on debt.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

But what is he meant to say. If he said this was a club signing like Conte did everyone would be calling for his head.

There were plenty of things he could have said without saying they were club signings and without saying they are ready for the first-team now. For example, he could have commented on their potential and that he looks forwarded to seeing them knuckle down and fight for opportunities in with the first-team, rather than directly stating that they're ready now.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Ange said himself during pre-season that he considers Gray & Bergvall to be ready now. If they're not ready now, perhaps the club was misguided in backing him in signing them, rather than failed to back him. The alternative is that Ange was lying, even though doing so only creates a rod for his own back.

Gray is ready, he has a full season in the champ behind him.
Bergvall is different as he has come from Swedish football, obviously a lower level . His pre season was January, played to July and then to us. Seems to be trying too hard and at the moment he’s not quite there.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Isn't most amortisation done over the lifetime of the player's contract? So spend £100m for a player on a 5 year contract = £20m per year? I don't think a club can just randomly decide to vary it. The problem if you don't include it is that you end up not counting transfer spend as a cost at all. The big differences between operating profit and net profit are transfer spend amortisation, depreciation on buildings (mostly the stadium) and interest payments on debt.

The amortisation is a max of 5 years now since Chelsea tried to fiddle the figures by giving players 8 year contracts. We make a lot of money but we also have the amortisation of the stadium . There is a 72m write down every financial year. This has to happen for 10 years from the stadium being opened, so another 5 years of it.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

But doesn't the club itself decide the methods for calculating amortisation and depreciation figures? There is a difference of £225 million between the operating profit we made in 2023 and the loss in 2023, where has that money gone?

No idea , you would have to consult an accountant for the details, according to transfermarkt from 21/22/23 transfer outlay on players 384 million euros , players sold 86 million euros(can't be bothered to do the exchange rate) maybe that accounts for some losses.
The accounts would have to pass scrutiny so should be above board unless you are Chelsea/Man City.

 

[spursfan77]

Ange clearly rates Son and Johnson, even if fans think they aren't good enough, so there's probably a huge disparity in the level of priority that Ange gave to signing a top quality winger compared to what our fanbase thinks there should have been.

Werner's loan was extended very early in the window, rather than as a last-minute option, so Ange must have been quite keen for this to happen (i.e. keeping Werner on the books was backing the manager).

Nico Williams reportedly chose to stay where he is for now, despite interest from bigger clubs than us. I'm expecting him to go to Barcelona next summer.

Neto was out of reach as soon as Chelsea decided they wanted him (and Mendes decided he wanted Neto at Chelsea).

Eze was less attainable after Palace had sold Olise, as it meant they'd have no appetite to budge on the first £60m of his £68m release clause being paid upfront. Also, I don't see how Eze fits LW in Ange's system - like Kulusevski, he'd be far better suited to CAM, but we already had Kulusevski & Maddison there so it wasn't a priority signing.

Maybe we should have beaten Real Madrid to Mbappe's signature!

I was just using player names as an example. You must know that unless you’re being obtuse on purpose.

Here you go to make it simpler for you.

Potential World class player X at £40m on £300k a week or championship youngster Y at £30m on £40k a week, which do you think we are doing?

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

But doesn't the club itself decide the methods for calculating amortisation and depreciation figures? There is a difference of £225 million between the operating profit we made in 2023 and the loss in 2023, where has that money gone?

Here are the juicy details of how £550 million revenue and £138 million profit ends up as an £86.8 million loss

 

[G Ron]

People really need to stop avoiding wages and quoting transfer fees alone. We spend big fees on players from smaller clubs because they fit our wage structure. It's the complete package over the length of the contract that ultimately falls below what the top clubs pay. Only time I recall we did both high transfer fee and wages was Ndombele which was a desperate signing that backfired. It never made sense to pay that much on another prospect who wasnt proven in a top league so they got it totally wrong. We have never paid what it takes to get a top player, only top prospects or good players from smaller clubs. The only time we ever go for a top player is at the end of their career (Perisic, VdV, David's etc). Have we ever signed any player the same level of Walker, Eriksen, Bale, Modric or Kane when they left? All players we got in young and let them develop into those great players to then replace with more prospects. That's why we always take another step or two back as soon as those players leave or drop off due to age. It's another cycle waiting for the next one to break out. We're always promised a better future that never arrives.

The only folks still arguing the toss over Net spend are totally overlooking wages as it suits their pro Levy agenda.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Harry Redknapp wanted to sign Tevez and Eden Hazard. Didn’t get them either.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Here are the juicy details of how £550 million revenue and £138 million profit ends up as an £86.8 million loss


View attachment 147779

The 72m write down on the stadium plays a big part in that amortisation. Another 5 yrs and that disappears .

 

[SpursForever71]

Actually build the cheese room. Cancelling that was where it all started to unravel for us.

Exactly, if anything says a weak, non winning mentality its a cheese room lol.

 

[SpursForever71]

Think that's also largely those Ange in are Levy out and vice versa so why the numbers are fairly similar. I imagine a very small percentage are both Ange and Levy in.

I dont think its just Ange tho, you would have the same split whoever the manager was i am guessing. Mainly because Levy hires the manager and then disregards what they want\need.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I was just using player names as an example. You must know that unless you’re being obtuse on purpose.

Here you go to make it simpler for you.

Potential World class player X at £40m on £300k a week or championship youngster Y at £30m on £40k a week, which do you think we are doing?

We're doing the one that is achievable, because the big name players will choose big clubs.

If Levy was to approve £300k p.w. contracts, which players who command a £300k p.w. salary do you think would want to join us over a bigger club that routinely wins trophies?

 

[MR_BEN]

The amortisation is a max of 5 years now since Chelsea tried to fiddle the figures by giving players 8 year contracts. We make a lot of money but we also have the amortisation of the stadium . There is a 72m write down every financial year. This has to happen for 10 years from the stadium being opened, so another 5 years of it.

They won’t be amortising the stadium over 10 years. That would be insane.

The actual structure will be amortised over a much longer period than that. (More like 50 years) Not that it matters, it’s simply an accounting and tax matter, doesn’t really impact how you run your business.

 

[makeveli]

It was always levy always has been , he makes too much money now and we keep giving into him so why should he stop, he looks down at us and laughs .

 

[G Ron]

We're doing the one that is achievable, because the big name players will choose big clubs.

If Levy was to approve £300k p.w. contracts, which players who command a £300k p.w. salary do you think would want to join us over a bigger club that routinely wins trophies?

Money talks - it’s as simple as that. Open your eyes - we’re a massive club in London with the best facilities in the land. Pay the big bucks and the top players would sign.

 

[G Ron]

It was always levy always has been , he makes too much money now and we keep giving into him so why should he stop, he looks down at us and laughs .

He looks up at us and laughs