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Thinking About the Finances of a Rebuild

Would You Prefer Winks, Dier, Dele in the 2020-2021 Squad or 150 Million Pounds from their Sales?

  • Winks, Dier, Dele in the Squad

    Votes: 15 19.0%
  • 150 Million from their sales to rebuild

    Votes: 64 81.0%

  • Total voters
    79

TH1239

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
3,691
8,964
It seems likely at this stage that the club are going to finish on their lowest point total in over a decade. Calls for a complete revamp of the squad are ubiquitous among fans and even hinted at by the manager. With the recent news of the club now being the 8th largest in the world in revenue generated, and with a likely staggering profit to be reported in the upcoming 2018-2019 financial accounts (150+ million?), one would think the club is in good enough financial shape to spend what it takes to bring in new players to help Mourinho eventually compete at the top of the table.

However, in my mind, questions still remain as to how a rebuild will be financed. Purchasing players has never been more expensive. Further, as Arsenal's recent revenue stagnation shows, missing out on Champions League football can really impact a club's income. Right now, missing out on Europa, which is very real possibility for Spurs, would see a 100 million pound revenue drop for the club next season from the 2018-2019 figures. When you couple that with the major devaluation in potential player fees for the likes of Eriksen, Dier, Vertonghen (presuming he leaves), Rose, Wanyama, and others, as well as a lack of naming rights deal to cover stadium debt, it's not hard to envision a risk-averse chairman preferring to continue to look for internal improvement, instead of ratcheting up spending.

Of course, Levy deserves credit for sanctioning spending last summer, and many have pointed to it, as well the desire to see a full new stadium full of ticket paying fans, as a strong basis for why he will undoubtedly sanction heavy spending this summer. But, again, that spend last summer was on the back of a 100 million pound Champions League windfall and a guarantee of 60 million pounds from qualification for Champions League for the following season. That is a much more palatable financial scenario to spend in (especially with public pressure from your very popular manager), than when faced with diminishing revenues moving forward. That kind of drop in revenue also may cause trepidation about heavy spending impacting potential flexibility when it comes to Financial Fair Play in the next 3-4 seasons (this seemingly shouldn't be an issue given the club's lean wage bill and large recent profits, but Levy has cited FFP restrictions in the recent past when generally addressing transfer business). In regards to spending in the transfer market to stay competitive in order keep the stadium full in the future, it's important to remember just how small of a piece of overall revenue ticket sales are. Broadcasting and commercial revenue far exceed ticket revenues, so even if you had a drop over the course of a season to 40,000 paid per match, that would likely only account for a loss of 35 million pounds over the course of a season. Or the transfer fee of Shkodran Mustafi. So, loss of ticket revenue isn't likely to be the catalyst that drives an owner to spend in an overinflated market.

Looking forward, this January may be a good test case for what the summer will bring. The manager is clearly wanting new players to fill out an injury ravaged squad. Thus far, the club have taken on a no-risk loan, which was very smart. Will they spend 30 million pounds on a striker like Piatek? If the club opts not to spend, perhaps that is a harbinger of what is to come? It's hard to say, given the difficulty of the winter window and limited options. But it's worth watching Mourinho's reaction if the club do opt against signing a striker this window.

So this brings me to the real point I want to make and something that isn't talked enough about here: the most realistic way, with the current set-up of the club, that I see a rebuild really working well for Mourinho is for it be largely funded by the right players sales. That means selling players whose value in the transfer market exceeds their value to the squad. A good example of this is Liverpool's sale of Coutinho. His value in the transfer market was greater than his value to Liverpool. Poor examples of this, and what I see most here in suggestions of summer sales, are sales of players like Lamela and Aurier, who are currently important to the squad, but would bring little in transfer wise to allow for quality replacements. My personal opinion is that there are at least 3 players, possibly more, who have great value in the transfer market, but less value in our squad. Namely, the three players in the poll (Winks, Dier, and Dele). Each would ideally be kept as part of the squad going forward, but if selling them meant the club could spend more to genuinely fix problem areas, it would be worth moving them on while their value is high. The absolute ideal scenario would be to do what Liverpool and Atletico Madrid have done: sell players with great value in the market AND put some additional investment on top of that to build a side capable of contending. But it's undoubtedly a risk to sell good players and invest good money, and still potentially come up short.

I'm curious to see what other pathways people think are viable for a rebuild (and by rebuild, I mean become a squad capable of putting up 75+ points and make runs in the cups like in 2016-2018). Perhaps with the very low wage-to-turnover ratio the club enjoys, Levy should consider a short-term move to a model like the Milan clubs and even Bayern, where you are open to paying really large loan fees and wages for out of favor players, but with no large transfer fee commitments? Whatever happens the rest of the season on the pitch, Levy has some major decisions to make about the trajectory of the club next summer.
 
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UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2003
9,256
11,284
We spent quite a few quid pre season, whether that was on the player recommendations of Poch who knows.
New manager now though with new ideas and tactics, I know Jose divides opinions but ultimately if he gets the players he wants he wins things.
At this moment in time Levy need to listen to Jose in relation to our issue up front and levy needs to suck it up.
Unfortunately our player values have decreased based on performances and injuries over the last 12 months so even offloading two or three first team players to fund new blood wouldn’t be a viable option.
Sarries now having to bail is a kick in the arse in terms of revenue so we need to replace that if possible (Levy & Wray negotiations must have been interesting) utimately we need to nail down naming rights on the stadium, JL to do a Jack Walker and back a serial winning manager.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,269
83,419
Given current form I am not convinced we would get £150m for the 3. To sell we would need clubs willing to pay £50m+ for these players. Dier especially is on a downward trajectory and this is far from the premium time to sell him.

At this stage we need to be selling players the manager doesn't see us being good enough for us in the long term ahead of the transfer fee being the deciding factor.

Once we are functioning again we can start looking to sell players when at their premium.
 

luptic

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2008
2,357
3,066
You are far better of forgetting about it, switch off for 7mths and re-accessing this situation in August. Levy has a completely different headache this season than last.
Without Son the stadium would be showing plenty of empty seats. The South Korean's are saving Levy this season.
 

TH1239

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
3,691
8,964
Given current form I am not convinced we would get £150m for the 3. To sell we would need clubs willing to pay £50m+ for these players. Dier especially is on a downward trajectory and this is far from the premium time to sell him.

At this stage we need to be selling players the manager doesn't see us being good enough for us in the long term ahead of the transfer fee being the deciding factor.

Once we are functioning again we can start looking to sell players when at their premium.

In the current transfer market in England, where Maguire was 80 million pounds and Iwobi 35 million pounds, I think we could easily got 150 million for all three if we didn't care who they were sold to. I suspect United would be willing to pay upwards of 100 million pounds for Dele. They need a #10. City and United have both been credibly linked to Winks, who given his status as an international, could easily get you 30+ million pounds. Dier is still a proven commodity in this league, and clubs like Leicester, Wolves, and many others would be interested at knock down rate in the 20 million pound range.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,269
83,419
In the current transfer market in England, where Maguire was 80 million pounds and Iwobi 35 million pounds, I think we could easily got 150 million for all three if we didn't care who they were sold to. I suspect United would be willing to pay upwards of 100 million pounds for Dele. They need a #10. City and United have both been credibly linked to Winks, who given his status as an international, could easily get you 30+ million pounds. Dier is still a proven commodity in this league, and clubs like Leicester, Wolves, and many others would be interested at knock down rate in the 20 million pound range.
I think it is very optimistic to think Utd would pay £100m for Alli right now. If he performs highly for the rest of the season then things can change quickly but right now is not the premium time to sell Alli. We will only get a high fee if a club above us makes him a priority signing, which right now I don't believe they would.

I can believe we could get £50m for Dier and Winks combined, maybe a bit more depending on the level of interest.

Maguire was on his way up which allowed his fee to be at a premium. The players you have listed are in a down period.
 

Snarfalicious

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2012
15,718
72,031
Is it bad that I almost don’t care who is sold at this point as long as it’s not Kane, Son, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Lamela, Davies, Sessegnon, Parrott, Skipp and Toby? Probably. Still think Davinson and Foyth have bright futures, just not sure if Jose sees it that way, too.

Beyond that, I do feel like we need to get back to investing in bulking up our academy ranks.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,182
48,812
We got too wedded to the squad that almost “touched glory” put it in Poch‘a words. Not selling players like Dier and Rose for £100m was a huge mistake in retrospect. The fact that we haven’t been able to generate player sales for the last couple of years has been as much of a problem as the lack of focus in scouting.
 

GutBucket

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2013
6,843
11,542
TV deals for Premiership end in 2022, we will see increase in spending when new one comes but still it won't be nothing amazing probably.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,630
I think we should be smart and look at picking up a player or two on free transfers. We need a right back so why not try and get Thomas Munier on a free? Especially when we're going to lose some of our players on Bosmans. I guess it will depend on whether we'd be willing to pay higher wages than usual.

Personally I still expect us to keep evolving, rather than going for a major rebuild. Sell one or two players for £20m to £30m and buy replacements for £40m to £50m, with an occasional star player bought or sold.
 

Dazzazzad

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,239
4,379
Not to discount the fact that work needs to be done on the squad, but how about some coaching and motivation as well? Watford looked dead in the water with 2 managers but now they landed on someone who is clearly getting the tactics and motivating right.

We have a squad of players that can and should be playing much better than they have this season.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
Alli is the only one of them who is potentially worth big money, and even he has been well below his best for a couple of years now so we wouldnt get top money for him. 150m for this three I'd bight your hand off.

Weather we'd spend the money well is another matter though I suppose
 

jay2040

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,674
4,261
We got too wedded to the squad that almost “touched glory” put it in Poch‘a words. Not selling players like Dier and Rose for £100m was a huge mistake in retrospect. The fact that we haven’t been able to generate player sales for the last couple of years has been as much of a problem as the lack of focus in scouting.

I dont think I would have sold the two previously either as we had hoped they would improve and not turn into shit!
Agree with scouting bit!
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,182
48,812
I dont think I would have sold the two previously either as we had hoped they would improve and not turn into shit!
Agree with scouting bit!
Even at the time, it was crazy money for limited player in Dier, good mentality but not skilled enough to be a top midfielder, not disciplined enough to be a top defender.

As soon as Rose got that bad injury, we should have been looking to take advantage of another club’s need and shift on while finding a younger model.
 

guiltyparty

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2005
9,023
13,524
Winks would be my last choice. Not a billy big bollocks, genuine link to the club, never going to be a big earner.

I would have said Dele as he’s so in and out and yet would once have got a big fee but I’m not sure anyone would pay anywhere near what we’d want.

Hard truth but none of our players bar Kane would get anywhere near what people think. We are a squad of lots to proves, out of forms and pass their bests.

150m is dreamland so I voted that.
 

Kiedis

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,926
8,490
We're already at a point where we have to be looking at bringing in homegrown players. Just throwing it out there.
 

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
2,674
7,717
We qualified for the CL four years in a row, earning

Yr 1: €30m
Yr 2: €50m
Yr 3: €100m
Yr 4: €50m so far...

That's €230m earned from CL participation, or £196m.

Since the sale of Mousa Dembele, we've earned £42.7m in player sales, and committed to spend £139m (incl. Lo Celso) since last summer.

This should indicate a surplus of £100m - this should, IMO be made immediately available for player acquisitions, on top of further sales and an annual transfer budget generated from operations (does this even exist??).

Looking to the operating figures, we've recently been informed by Deloitte that the club have earned £460m with the CL run to the final.

Even allowing £260m for wages and operations (generous allowance), this should be indicating headroom of £200m (gross) - so somewhere in the region of £150m profits to go with the £130m profits from last year.

We HAVE money. And we can generate a little more with the sales of players, with perhaps the sale of someone like Dele, also.

The rebuild is entirely possible to finance, I just think DL would rather divert the funds into buying up land in N17.

I didn't think DL would be able to get away with not spending this time... but it seems he's found a way with the loan system.
 

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,969
28,103
I wouldn't trust the transfer committee to spend that kind of money wisely.

I also argue that that the club could recoup not far off half of that figure by selling others within the squad.

Maybe Dier I would seem surplus to requirements.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,277
57,634
I think Levy has had his fingers burnt by the Eriksen saga. By all accounts CE was offered new deals repeatedly but refused all of them. This seems to be the way things are leaning now in football with players wrestling a bigger slice of the pie away from the clubs. People are now saying that we fucked up by not selling him at 130m or whatever 18 months ago. To bring that up to date, we should now be entertaining big offers for the likes of Kane, Son, Dele, but I'd imagine there would be pandemonium if we did - reminiscent of the scenes when Liverpool sold Coutinho, and we all know how that panned out.

I think delving into the loan (with option) market is a sensible way to go for now. Those players are generally out of favour with their clubs but that doesn't necessarily make them bad players. We'll see how Gedson pans out. I also think we should be targetting players who see us as a step up, rather than a step down, but I'm not sure those types of players particularly fit Mourinho's template.
 
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