The Y Word

Ronwol196061

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As an observant and practicing Jew, I have always felt our adopting the term yid army was one of the most powerful and profound messages of anti racism in football, and it fills me with joy and pride every time I hear it reverberating around the ground.

nothing and nobody will ever make me stop singing it.

Even if we put aside the arguments for and against from inside the club and outside, does anyone seriously believe there is one chance in a billion of our fans ever stopping singing it, so ingrained as it is in our identify for generations ? There’s more chance of me switching allegiance to Chelsea than our fans giving up our identity

Secondly, since that **** baddiel started this (because he’s ashamed of his own club and needs to deflect, what has happened? It’s got worse from the likes of Chelsea and West Ham, the racist abuse has intensified and our fans have become justifiably more defiant.

So in conclusion this has zero chance of success and has increased the anti Semitic abuse we find ourselves on the receiving end of.

Finally change the title of this thread. For crying out loud, YID is not a profanity, it is not a racist word any more than Muslim or Jew is, depending on the content and/or intent.
 

Led's Zeppelin

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As an observant and practicing Jew, I have always felt our adopting the term yid army was one of the most powerful and profound messages of anti racism in football, and it fills me with joy and pride every time I hear it reverberating around the ground.

nothing and nobody will ever make me stop singing it.

Even if we put aside the arguments for and against from inside the club and outside, does anyone seriously believe there is one chance in a billion of our fans ever stopping singing it, so ingrained as it is in our identify for generations ? There’s more chance of me switching allegiance to Chelsea than our fans giving up our identity

Secondly, since that **** baddiel started this (because he’s ashamed of his own club and needs to deflect, what has happened? It’s got worse from the likes of Chelsea and West Ham, the racist abuse has intensified and our fans have become justifiably more defiant.

So in conclusion this has zero chance of success and has increased the anti Semitic abuse we find ourselves on the receiving end of.

Finally change the title of this thread. For crying out loud, YID is not a profanity, it is not a racist word any more than Muslim or Jew is, depending on the content and/or intent.
So me practicing and observant Jews like my cousin the Rabbi, considers the change in use of the word yid, as opposed to Yiddish for example, has transformed it into a potentially racist word.

If his or your religion were relevant to a conversation, I’d describe you both as Jews, not Yids.

You described yourself as a Jew, not as a Yid.

It feels to me that the reasons for this are self evident.
 

dudu

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As an observant and practicing Jew, I have always felt our adopting the term yid army was one of the most powerful and profound messages of anti racism in football, and it fills me with joy and pride every time I hear it reverberating around the ground.

nothing and nobody will ever make me stop singing it.

Even if we put aside the arguments for and against from inside the club and outside, does anyone seriously believe there is one chance in a billion of our fans ever stopping singing it, so ingrained as it is in our identify for generations ? There’s more chance of me switching allegiance to Chelsea than our fans giving up our identity

Secondly, since that **** baddiel started this (because he’s ashamed of his own club and needs to deflect, what has happened? It’s got worse from the likes of Chelsea and West Ham, the racist abuse has intensified and our fans have become justifiably more defiant.

So in conclusion this has zero chance of success and has increased the anti Semitic abuse we find ourselves on the receiving end of.

Finally change the title of this thread. For crying out loud, YID is not a profanity, it is not a racist word any more than Muslim or Jew is, depending on the content and/or intent.
I'm an ex orthodox Jew and I tend to feel the same as you mate.

I've never had the word Yid thrown at me but I suffered a lot of Anti-Semitic abuse when i was younger.

From being threatened and chased regularly while walking around my local area with a Kippah on, to going to play football for my (Jewish) school against non-Jewish teams, being in goal, and having subs from the opposition team come and stand right behind the goal and say things like "Hitler was a good bloke" and gas chamber hiss at me amongst calling me other names and asking me about my horns etc.

If anything, being part of the Yid Army made me feel proud and like I had an even bigger extended family so to speak.

I do get the offence that the word has caused in the past, and I really do understand the power that words can have but it is also true that the power of a word can change.

I just think, as others have attested, that the conversation about it is had openly and without prejudice.
 

Ronwol196061

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Im Jewish and I don't know to many Jews that would call themselves Yids,I mean we would consider we were Yids (not even talking the Tottenham connotation) but just would say we are Jewish. In fact I personally think that the word 'jewish' is a nicer term. Ive never heard anyone call me a jewish bastard :) . This ish bit brings friendliness I think infact if they started singing We are the Yiddish behind the goal I think I would be in Gloryland.
If someone called you Engl instead of English how would you feel?
 

ToDarrenIsToDo

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In the Oxford Dictionary this year:

  • bagel, n., sense 2a: “slang. U.S. derogatory and offensive. A Jewish person.”
  • bagel, n., sense 2b: “slang. South African (usually derogatory). A type of wealthy young Jewish man characterized as being spoilt and materialistic with a distinctively…”
Quick question, as the word Bagel is used by some as a derogatory term, do we no longer use this word? Do we ban shops from selling things called 'bagels' now?

See how the insane PC of it all spirals out of control?
 

SugarRay

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They brought in lip readers to try and find out if someone in the crowd had shouted something racist at Rudiger so I assume they could pick up hissing as well.
They’ve switched the hiss to a shhhhhhhhhhhhh

Can see the ****s laughing and fucking about as they do it. They’ve been doing it since they got pulled up for hissing, same as West Ham.

It’s their way of continuing the insult yet it gives them the excuse of ‘I was just letting the Tottenham fans know I think they’re quiet sir’

Fucking scumbag slags
 

dontcallme

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In the Oxford Dictionary this year:

  • bagel, n., sense 2a: “slang. U.S. derogatory and offensive. A Jewish person.”
  • bagel, n., sense 2b: “slang. South African (usually derogatory). A type of wealthy young Jewish man characterized as being spoilt and materialistic with a distinctively…”
Quick question, as the word Bagel is used by some as a derogatory term, do we no longer use this word? Do we ban shops from selling things called 'bagels' now?

See how the insane PC of it all spirals out of control?
Perfect example of PC gone mad if what you suggested is happening but as it isn't is completely irrelevant.
 

ToDarrenIsToDo

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Perfect example of PC gone mad if what you suggested is happening but as it isn't is completely irrelevant.
It isn't yet but do you see the slippery slope it leads down?

People have started to use the world Bagel I'm a derogatory manner, does that necessarily mean it's a derogatory word?

I'm not Jewish so I cannot pass judgement or relate to the use of the word yiddo but if we are looking to ban it due to its use on occasions in a derogatory fashion, surely the word Bagel comes under scrutiny as well be it now or eventually right?
 

dontcallme

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It isn't yet but do you see the slippery slope it leads down?

People have started to use the world Bagel I'm a derogatory manner, does that necessarily mean it's a derogatory word?

I'm not Jewish so I cannot pass judgement or relate to the use of the word yiddo but if we are looking to ban it due to its use on occasions in a derogatory fashion, surely the word Bagel comes under scrutiny as well be it now or eventually right?
Nope, making things up to prove a point achieves nothing.

I have said before Baddiel's comparisons of the n word with Yid isn't very irrelevant as the two words have very different histories and usages.

Bagel and Yid have even less in common.

The word Yid actually does have a history of being offensive in certain circumstances. A lot of Jewish people have said they find our usage offensive and unsettling. Why do we have to dumb this down to PC gone mad?

There is a street near me called Man Street. I saw an American feminist saying she finds the word "man" offensive so wants its usage to stop being used. Isn't it mental and PC gone mad that the street close to me will have its name changed? Lets ignore the fact that it isn't having its name changed and we are making something up to pretend the world has gone crazy. The world in your head might be crazy, but reality not so much.
 
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Spurslove

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I would maybe take Baddiel seriously if he were even a genuine football fan, and wasn't just pretending to be one because he hosted a comedy football show back in the 90s.
I remember that show he did with Frank Skinner and I also remember one particular sketch in which he played a caricature of an orthodox Jew which could have given great offence to the wider Jewish community, but I don't remember if he got any flack for that at the time.

Jews are well known for having the abilty to laugh at themselves (ourselves) and enjoy a self deprecating brand of humour, so I find all this unwarranted nonsense very tiresome. As I said earlier, I'm afraid there are too many professional victims in the UK these days and anyone who seriously objects to us using the word 'Yid' really cannot (or will not) understand the context in which we us it, so I'm afraid I can't take their objections seriously, but that's just my view.

.
 

ToDarrenIsToDo

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Nope, making things up to prove a point achieves nothing.

I have said before Baddiel's comparisons of the n word with Yid isn't very irrelevant as the two words have very different histories and usages.

Bagel and Yid have even less in common.

The word Yid actually does have a history of being offensive in certain circumstances. A lot of Jewish people have said they find our usage offensive and unsettling. Why do we have to dumb this down to PC gone mad.

There is a street near me called Man Street. I saw an American feminist saying she finds the word "man" offensive so wants its usage to stop being used. Isn't it mental and PC gone mad that the street close to me will have its name changed? Lets ignore the fact that it isn't having its name changed and we are making something up to pretend the world has gone crazy. The world in your head might be crazy, but reality not so much.
I'm not making things up. Look at the Oxford English Dictionary website to see for yourself that Bagel has been added as a derogatory word used to describe Jewish people.

Please look at it before accusing me of making things up. My question is if that's a derogatory word now, where does the PC of it all end?

I'm intentionally being far fetched and playing Devils advocate here but if deemed derogatory by some and the name of a food by others, where do we draw the line? After all the word Yid/ Yiddish when initially used was never seen as derogatory, nasty people turned it derogatory over time.
 
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dontcallme

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I'm not making things up. Look at the Oxford English Dictionary website to see for yourself that Bagel has been added as a derogatory word used to describe Jewish people.

Please look at it before accusing me of making things up. My question is if that's a derogatory word now, where does the PC of it all end?
LOL, I am not saying you made up the dictionary definition of bagel. But you did make up a ridiculous situation where PC has gone mad because we could ban the word bagel when nothing of the sort is happening.

If someone has to make up ridiculous hypotheticals then the strength of the argument is likely very weak.
 

nailsy

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In the Oxford Dictionary this year:

  • bagel, n., sense 2a: “slang. U.S. derogatory and offensive. A Jewish person.”
  • bagel, n., sense 2b: “slang. South African (usually derogatory). A type of wealthy young Jewish man characterized as being spoilt and materialistic with a distinctively…”
Quick question, as the word Bagel is used by some as a derogatory term, do we no longer use this word? Do we ban shops from selling things called 'bagels' now?

See how the insane PC of it all spirals out of control?
You're being ridiculous. If people start using other anti semetic terms in chants then deal with anyone singing them.
 

ToDarrenIsToDo

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You're being ridiculous. If people start using other anti semetic terms in chants then deal with anyone singing them.
Correct me if I'm wrong though, is Bagel now in the Oxford Dictionary as being a derogatory word for Jewish people?


Please check and let me know if you see it classified as a derogatory term and if it should get scrutinised now because of such developments around the word in some parts of the world.

As mentioned, I'm purposely being ridiculous to play devils advocate. I know and you know it's ridiculous but if both are seen as derogatory in some levels, why should both not get scrutinised?
 
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Ronwol196061

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In the Oxford Dictionary this year:

  • bagel, n., sense 2a: “slang. U.S. derogatory and offensive. A Jewish person.”
  • bagel, n., sense 2b: “slang. South African (usually derogatory). A type of wealthy young Jewish man characterized as being spoilt and materialistic with a distinctively…”
Quick question, as the word Bagel is used by some as a derogatory term, do we no longer use this word? Do we ban shops from selling things called 'bagels' now?

See how the insane PC of it all spirals out of control?
Honest the word bagel (and I live in Norf America) has never been used as a derogatory word as far as I know. Maybe it's the equivalent of Donut and that too is not a derogatory word (in fact I just made that up)
Actually the original spelling in the east end before the yanks got hold of it was biegel.
Cant wait for schmaltz herring to be the next anti semite buzz word I hate the stuff.
 

Led's Zeppelin

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Correct me if I'm wrong though, is Bagel now in the Oxford Dictionary as being a derogatory word for Jewish people?


Please check and let me know if you see it classified as a derogatory term and if it should get scrutinised now because of such developments around the word in some parts of the world.

As mentioned, I'm purposely being ridiculous to play devils advocate. I know and you know it's ridiculous but if both are seen as derogatory in some levels, why should both not get scrutinised?
What’s your argument?

That because there are some ridiculous usages recorded in the dictionary we should disregard everything and say whatever we feel like saying to everyone?

I honestly don’t know if you’re being serious or whether you just don’t like the idea that some things can be genuinely hurtful. Or don’t care.
 

nailsy

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Correct me if I'm wrong though, is Bagel now in the Oxford Dictionary as being a derogatory word for Jewish people?


Please check and let me know if you see it classified as a derogatory term and if it should get scrutinised now because of such developments around the word in some parts of the world.

As mentioned, I'm purposely being ridiculous to play devils advocate. I know and you know it's ridiculous but if both are seen as derogatory in some levels, why should both not get scrutinised?
No one is going to ban the word bagel if it's used in the normal context. If it becomes part of a chant that thousands of people are using then it would need to be seriously looked at.
 

dontcallme

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No one is going to ban the word bagel if it's used in the normal context. If it becomes part of a chant that thousands of people are using then it would need to be seriously looked at.
But they could which is why PC has gone mad and our usage of Yid is now completely justified.
 
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