The Weekend ITK Discussion Thread 2/3 August 2014

[Sandros Shiny Head]

That wasn't the statement though, it was about bottling tackles.
But because Bale was amazing, and great to watch, it's acceptable for him to be a bottler or a cheat? Seems a bit double standard.

Plus we haven't even given Paulinho enough time in this team to know what quality he could offer us.

the point is if your going to pull out of a tackle it would go down much better if you also scored the match winning goal.

edit: obviously you shouldn't pull out of any tackle, but it was a strange comparison thats all.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

That wasn't the statement though, it was about bottling tackles.
But because Bale was amazing, and great to watch, it's acceptable for him to be a bottler or a cheat? Seems a bit double standard.

Plus we haven't even given Paulinho enough time in this team to know what quality he could offer us.

Or indeed, really played him in the right way or system to get the best out of him. I don't think he's brilliant but, I think we'd see a better Paulinho if he hadn't been used as a CM2 in Sherwood's sloppy free for all shit approach. He was looking reasonably decent in AVB's much more disciplined set up.

He needs to be played in a 433 or at worst in a 4231 but with some discipline and organisation and a busy **** next to him.

Tim Vickery was talking about him the other day and was saying that for Corinthians, whilst they were winning the league, the South American CL and the World club trophy he was their most important player. He compared his role to Lampard. And I think this is the problem, At Chelsea Lampard was invariably played in a 433 and had others to do the donkey work, so although he had to do some work, it meant he had much more license that the other 2 CM's and he just bombed forward and got on the end of stuff. Paulinho's not good enough to emulate the type of goal tallies Lampard achieved but used the right way we would see him to better effect.

 

[Sandros Shiny Head]

Agreed, it was

How about in bales first few seasons at the club???

this is true but nobody was singing his praises then though

 

[kitchen]

Or indeed, really played him in the right way or system to get the best out of him. I don't think he's brilliant but, I think we'd see a better Paulinho if he hadn't been used as a CM2 in Sherwood's sloppy free for all shit approach. He was looking reasonably decent in AVB's much more disciplined set up.

He needs to be played in a 433 or at worst in a 4231 but with some discipline and organisation and a busy **** next to him.

Tim Vickery was talking about him the other day and was saying that for Corinthians, whilst they were winning the league, the South American CL and the World club trophy he was their most important player. He compared his role to Lampard. And I think this is the problem, At Chelsea Lampard was invariably played in a 433 and had others to do the donkey work, so although he had to do some work, it meant he had much more license that the other 2 CM's and he just bombed forward and got on the end of stuff. Paulinho's not good enough to emulate the type of goal tallies Lampard achieved but used the right way we would see him to better effect.

All good points. But if he's not producing the sort of output that Lampard did, then we can't justify him being a luxury player who's not doing his fair share of work IMO.

Particularly in a system like pochettino's.

 

[Beni]

the point is if your going to pull out of a tackle it would go down much better if you also scored the match winning goal.

edit: obviously you shouldn't pull out of any tackle, but it was a strange comparison thats all.

I don't like Paulinho bottling challenges just like Bale did, or any Spurs player. I made the comparison because the statement was made that he had no desire on watching players bottle tackles.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

All good points. But if he's not producing the sort of output that Lampard did, then we can't justify him being a luxury player who's not doing his fair share of work IMO.

Particularly in a system like pochettino's.

I'm not sure he will get much of a go in Pochettino's system, I'm not even sure I want him too, depending on how things pan out, I'm just mooting an opinion on how a team would get the best out of him. I don't think he's been as bad as some do. Some have called him a bottler, but he averages more tackles per game than Sandro. I personally never saw him bottle much but I'm not saying t didn't happen. I saw Eriksen bottle a tackle that cost us a goal at West ham though. He hasn't earned the nickname bottler ?

 

[Sweech]

I think Paulinho needs to be played with the 3 attacking mids instead of the 2 CMs in this scheme.

Unfortunately that's a deep position group as is with Eriksen, Lamela, Lennon, Townsend, Chadli, and Holtby.

 

[Kaboul'sForehead]

Someone spiked my whiskey and coke with some whiskey. I love Spurs so much and quite frankly things are fantastic right now. I just hope we don't see Poch and Levy on Jeremy Kyle in a year or two with Franco running on from backstage yelling and slapping Levy for some reason to do with pregnancy and picking up scrap metal to raise funds for transfers.

 

[Yid]

I'm not sure he will get much of a go in Pochettino's system, I'm not even sure I want him too, depending on how things pan out, I'm just mooting an opinion on how a team would get the best out of him. I don't think he's been as bad as some do. Some have called him a bottler, but he averages more tackles per game than Sandro. I personally never saw him bottle much but I'm not saying t didn't happen. I saw Eriksen bottle a tackle that cost us a goal at West ham though. He hasn't earned the nickname bottler ?

TBF that statistical measure is neither here nor there, because if you sort the data according to the 90 min. metric ((which is arguably the more accurate predictor of success between the two)), Sandro (with 2.17) won more tackles than Paulinho (with 1.97).

 

[sak11]

That wasn't the statement though, it was about bottling tackles.
But because Bale was amazing, and great to watch, it's acceptable for him to be a bottler or a cheat? Seems a bit double standard.

Plus we haven't even given Paulinho enough time in this team to know what quality he could offer us.

Exactly this. In a similar vein, I wouldn't want Suarez at spurs just because he is a great footballer - all the other stuff he does overshadows his skill

 

[kanoute16]

but bales quality was a bit more forthcoming no?

Not in the first 3 years of his spurs career though

 

[Spurger King]

Not in the first 3 years of his spurs career though

Nonsense. It was obvious even when he was 17 that he was extremely talented. One of the best performing teenagers we've had in years.

Just because he would later become a great player, that doesn't mean there weren't clear signs of his talents from the very start.

 

[Bobbins]

Nonsense. It was obvious even when he was 17 that he was extremely talented. One of the best performing teenagers we've had in years.

Just because he would later become a great player, that doesn't mean there weren't clear signs of his talents from the very start.

Agreed, his (I think debut, if not then very early) performance away against United was filled with glimpses of his talent, not least when he headed clear at left back, then chased his own clearance, beat two men and powered the ball the entire length of the pitch on his own. This was under Jol I believe, when he was still skinny and with what Harry later regarded as a "fackin' birds aircut".

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

Agreed, his (I think debut, if not then very early) performance away against United was filled with glimpses of his talent, not least when he headed clear at left back, then chased his own clearance, beat two men and powered the ball the entire length of the pitch on his own. This was under Jol I believe, when he was still skinny and with what Harry later regarded as a "fackin' birds aircut".

God I remember that goal. Fucking loved that kid.

 

[C0YS]

TBF that statistical measure is neither here nor there, because if you sort the data according to the 90 min. metric ((which is arguably the more accurate predictor of success between the two)), Sandro (with 2.17) won more tackles than Paulinho (with 1.97).

Also Sandro normally averages more than that over a season. It is just last year Sandro was absolutely shit (personally I thought he was our worst midfielder out of the lot, and man there were really not many stand out performers). I would love to see him back to his best this year though.

 

[gibbospurs]

God I remember that goal. Fucking loved that kid.

Danny rose??