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The VAR Thread

Yid-ol

Just-outside Edinburgh
Jan 16, 2006
32,354
21,272
What happened to automated offsides in the prem? I thought the were supposed to come in after the first international break initially, I know it then got delayed further but we’re half way through the season now!

There was talk it might not come in now until next season.

Much rather it be in from the start of a season than for it to come in half way through anyway.
 

Timbo Tottenham

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2006
3,386
9,392
I’m not sure it matters if it comes in half way through a season so much when it comes to offside as it’s a cut and dry decision, especially if it reduces the risk of user error. Would have sped up the Solanke decision on Wednesday for those of us watching in the freezing cold 😅

(edit: aware that was league cup and not prem!)
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
43,031
73,206
The inconsistent application of VAR has been a real bug bear for ages and again when Arse scored tonight from a corner that wasn't a corner.

Why is VAR used for some factual decisions like offside, but not for a ball out of play? It takes less than five seconds to tell the ref he's made a mistake there, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to how quickly the play restarted.

This halfway house stuff where VAR sometimes can get involved but also sometimes can't is just infuriating (and I'd rather just get rid altogether).
 

SixtyFour

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2008
335
877
The inconsistent application of VAR has been a real bug bear for ages and again when Arse scored tonight from a corner that wasn't a corner.

Why is VAR used for some factual decisions like offside, but not for a ball out of play? It takes less than five seconds to tell the ref he's made a mistake there, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to how quickly the play restarted.

This halfway house stuff where VAR sometimes can get involved but also sometimes can't is just infuriating (and I'd rather just get rid altogether).
They would take 5 minutes not 5 seconds. But the second it was given you, me, everyone knew they would score
 

chas vs dave

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2008
6,544
25,477
Pre VAR, this was given as offside 10 years ago today

1000007463.jpg
 

Croftwoodspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2012
418
729
Whilst we don't have a general referee talk, thought this would be the best place to discuss... I can't believe how bad Anthony Taylor was yesterday as a ref, So many strange decisions.. Can't believe how a villa player was not booked, when ours were booked for a shoulder barge... They had a foot down the back of the leg, also Rashford rash challenge on Gray which could have easily broken his leg, which you saw bend and it was lucky his ankle was not pinned, also McGinn with a challenge similar to when our player was booked afterwards for the same type of challenge. Rashford jumping for the ball and catching Danso on the head, he was looking straight at it and would have easy be able to see it, and in other games players get booked for similar things.

I honestly can't remember when spurs have been playing with a English referee that has a had good game and actually been fair on both sides.
 

aliyid

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2004
7,881
23,611
This past weekend has been a useful glimpse back into the pre-VAR world with Utd scoring injury time winners that are offside and goals given that don’t cross the line.

VAR isn’t perfect by any means but it has stopped some of the outrageous decisions we’ve seen this weekend.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
43,031
73,206
This past weekend has been a useful glimpse back into the pre-VAR world with Utd scoring injury time winners that are offside and goals given that don’t cross the line.

VAR isn’t perfect by any means but it has stopped some of the outrageous decisions we’ve seen this weekend.
Goal line tech is absolutely vital for the whole integrity of the top level game IMO, but that's not VAR, that's a separate thing.

Those offside goals are the real argument, and why I'm happy to have VAR for entirely factual, binary decisions. It's when VAR gets involved in subjective decisions that it gets messy.
 

Timbo Tottenham

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2006
3,386
9,392
What’s the reason for automated offsides being delayed in the prem, especially as they’re being used this evening at The Etihad in the Champs League?
 

Yid-ol

Just-outside Edinburgh
Jan 16, 2006
32,354
21,272
What’s the reason for automated offsides being delayed in the prem, especially as they’re being used this evening at The Etihad in the Champs League?

Took them ages to check the City goal, not sure if there was an issue with it as it's normally so quick.
 

MR_BEN

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2005
3,436
2,171
Whilst we don't have a general referee talk, thought this would be the best place to discuss... I can't believe how bad Anthony Taylor was yesterday as a ref, So many strange decisions.. Can't believe how a villa player was not booked, when ours were booked for a shoulder barge... They had a foot down the back of the leg, also Rashford rash challenge on Gray which could have easily broken his leg, which you saw bend and it was lucky his ankle was not pinned, also McGinn with a challenge similar to when our player was booked afterwards for the same type of challenge. Rashford jumping for the ball and catching Danso on the head, he was looking straight at it and would have easy be able to see it, and in other games players get booked for similar things.

I honestly can't remember when spurs have been playing with an English referee that has a had good game and actually been fair on both sides.
I agree some of the Villa incidents - ie the ones you mentioned should have received cautions…. But I felt he was quite lenient most of the game.

Most of our bookings were based on totting up of multiple less serious incidents, but the cards were clearly coming. Especially Bergvall.
 

Dundalk_Spur

The only Spur in the village
Jul 17, 2008
5,029
7,872
Whilst we don't have a general referee talk, thought this would be the best place to discuss... I can't believe how bad Anthony Taylor was yesterday as a ref, So many strange decisions.. Can't believe how a villa player was not booked, when ours were booked for a shoulder barge... They had a foot down the back of the leg, also Rashford rash challenge on Gray which could have easily broken his leg, which you saw bend and it was lucky his ankle was not pinned, also McGinn with a challenge similar to when our player was booked afterwards for the same type of challenge. Rashford jumping for the ball and catching Danso on the head, he was looking straight at it and would have easy be able to see it, and in other games players get booked for similar things.

I honestly can't remember when spurs have been playing with a English referee that has a had good game and actually been fair on both sides.
I was apoplectic to be honest.

Taylor clearly refereed the game differently for the two teams, and although we were poor for a lot of it, this definitely had an effect.

The Liverpool game was a different level. Van Dyke not being sent off for a deliberate elbow, was a game changer and we will never know just how much.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
21,344
61,699
Took them ages to check the City goal, not sure if there was an issue with it as it's normally so quick.
Not sure if it's correct, but commentary said it took a while because they were using the ball and not the players as they normally would. As Gvardiol and Haaland were behind the defenders, they had to use the ball's position instead.

I guess the semi automated system isn't properly set up for that scenario?
 

Croftwoodspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2012
418
729
Not sure if it's correct, but commentary said it took a while because they were using the ball and not the players as they normally would. As Gvardiol and Haaland were behind the defenders, they had to use the ball's position instead.

I guess the semi automated system isn't properly set up for that scenario?

What I found interesting was the point of the ball used, not sure you have an exact rule around this... Believe the rule just states behind the ball, where as he was actually level with the ball... They took the front of the ball, if they would have used back of the ball then it could have been deemed offside.

Because we are dealing with mm's now the rules might need to be made tighter, because the point of contact of football is critical now, if you use when contact was made or when the ball left the foot can have major impact on the offside.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
21,344
61,699
What I found interesting was the point of the ball used, not sure you have an exact rule around this... Believe the rule just states behind the ball, where as he was actually level with the ball... They took the front of the ball, if they would have used back of the ball then it could have been deemed offside.

Because we are dealing with mm's now the rules might need to be made tighter, because the point of contact of football is critical now, if you use when contact was made or when the ball left the foot can have major impact on the offside.
I don't know the ins and outs that's just what was relayed when I was watching it last night.
 

Croftwoodspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2012
418
729
I was apoplectic to be honest.

Taylor clearly refereed the game differently for the two teams, and although we were poor for a lot of it, this definitely had an effect.

The Liverpool game was a different level. Van Dyke not being sent off for a deliberate elbow, was a game changer and we will never know just how much.

We seemed to get so many of those games, where the standard of ref between the two sides are different, go back to the battle of the bridge and the ref allowed Chelsea to foul without impunity.. Whilst I can understand letting the game go, letting a strong / late challenge go in the first 10 mins is not correct... They are scared of setting a precedent because they fear of booking other players and people having to be sent off and the fallout from this.. It's not there responsibility to worry about that, it down to the players to control there action and how they tackle..

I can understand why the Ref had trouble with Van Dyke incident, as he was behind the players and only saw Van Dyke step across and it would have looked like a block... Var should have made the ref aware of the incident to ascertain if he had that view if he felt it warranted a red card... But VAR is not being actioned correctly, it only looks for obvious mistake, where as it should be used to give the ref the high lights to show all the views to make the on field decision. It still becomes a subjective view but at least the ref would have made it based on all the views. You can see that Van Dyke knew what he was doing, but only he knows for certain and the decisions from the Ref and VAR are always going to based on an subjective view.
 

Yid-ol

Just-outside Edinburgh
Jan 16, 2006
32,354
21,272
What I found interesting was the point of the ball used, not sure you have an exact rule around this... Believe the rule just states behind the ball, where as he was actually level with the ball... They took the front of the ball, if they would have used back of the ball then it could have been deemed offside.

Because we are dealing with mm's now the rules might need to be made tighter, because the point of contact of football is critical now, if you use when contact was made or when the ball left the foot can have major impact on the offside.

This is from the FA website, so I know it's not Uefa, but I would assume it's the same for all governing bodies in football.

1. Offside position

It is not an offence to be in an offside position.

A player is in an offside position if:
any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and
any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

So it would be onside as any part of his body was not closer to the goal than the ball, so must refer to the front of the ball and it the back.
 
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