The Top 4 myth

[Gassin's finest]

One begets the other imo.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Clubs will not be able to guarantee year after year in the CL. The competition is more fierce than ever .
Arsenal recently went 6 years without CL. . We had 4 in a row with Poch, one with Conte and now another one. Don’t think we can expect 5 in CL every season. Italy and Germany had 5 this season but both missed out this season. The points are averaged over the number of teams in europe.. you just need one underperforming and it’s a struggle . We didnt get in at 5th place last season because Utd and Newcastle finished bottom of their groups and didn’t go into Europa. If they had we would have probably got in.
We may have Palace and Forest in the Europa , who knows how they will get on with their squads, a few injuries etc. Forest have hardly had many injuries this season.

 

[brasil_spur]

I think the top 4/5 is something more achievable and can be consistent.

a cup win is a coin toss. we were lucky.

- can we just put this shit to bed please.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

It’s BOTH.

Winning things and consistently qualifying for the CL which in turn increases our chances of being a top team who can win things regularly!

This.

 

[brasil_spur]

I reckon the reality now is that the PL is highly competitive, to the point where getting top 4 every season isn't guaranteed for anyone.

On that basis I think top 6 is now the old top 4. And as we've seen the EL is a great competition to be in and to take seriously.

So for me, it's regular challenging for top 6 football, serious cup challenges with regular (every other season as a minimum) cup wins along the way.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

If i had to choose win four trophies over the next four seasons, but finish between 12th and 8th in all four of those seasons. Versus finish between 6 and 2nd for those same four seasons but win no trophies, the choice is easy!

I deeply care about all of the cups. Because at the end of the day, that’s what I remember the most. That’s what brings the most joy, by far. And I don’t think it diminishes our mentality. Far from it. It means we have developed a squad that knows how to get to finals and win them.

This has been the worst league season I have experienced. Yet, im absolutely chuffed, as I got to finally see us win something important for the first time since 1991.

Yes, the game is about Glory. Not about mentality. The latter is derived from the glory.

As it’s 60 years since the double, we can only be described as a cup team . Last 3 trophies before now we finish 10 10, and 11th in the league. Hope it’s not another 17yrs to the next one.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

I reckon the reality now is that the PL is highly competitive, to the point where getting top 4 every season isn't guaranteed for anyone.

On that basis I think top 6 is now the old top 4. And as we've seen the EL is a great competition to be in and to take seriously.

So for me, it's regular challenging for top 6 football, serious cup challenges with regular (every other season as a minimum) cup wins along the way.

It’s an achievement to finish in the top half these days.

 

[SixtyFour]

Although you simply can not plan winning cups, as they are always down to the draw and also some match luck.

Kind of. But also kind of not. Bizarre circumstance of this ill fated season led us, by which I mean Ange, to actually prioritise a cup competition above league form for the first time in just about forever. This never happened during our «top four» years. At best, a balance was sought. But we never went flat out in a cup; it was reserve keeper mentality all the way to the business end - if we got that far. We were stuck in an unsolvable riddle, without the resources- and definitely not the board room approval - to compete on both fronts.

 

[Grey Fox]

It’s BOTH.

Winning things and consistently qualifying for the CL which in turn increases our chances of being a top team who can win things regularly!

Not if the board doesn't invest properly in the team

 

[mabolsa_ritchey]

I agree with the OP for where we are as a club right now. Trophy for me every day of the week please.
However, back in the 90s and early 2000s it was a pipe dream to even think about Spurs playing in the champions league. I celebrated the win against City as if it was a cup final.

 

[newbie]

i read the title and i thought this was going to be a very different thread, about how the chamopns leagues not worth that much money and will make sod all difference!

lucky its not and I would say this

Being a united fan right now is horrific they are all under shit, JIm apparently was getting booed by the staff watching the game, the manager and players all are taking flack!

the pundits like nevile and JC are silent they have nothing they can say to us they have to shut the ££££ up!

they cant say anything at all "its spurs" well we beat them 4 times this season and have not lost to them in what 3 or 4 years?

Even West Ham fans are sharing images of European cups in Tottenham and West Ham trophy cabinets either side of an empty Arsenal cabinet.

Levy, Ange the players all look so happy!

there is no oh spurs never win!

The Champions League is the gravy but winning the cup is huge it has been the best thing ever to happen to us in my life time, this is our biggest achievement in my opinion, because of all the hate we get about never winning our season was shit, but I have to say one thing about Ange he has got players believing and rock solid in mentality, how many times our players have kept going when its gone compelety wrong, when bents went off against Liverpool we didn't fold we got stronger and one.

finishing 17s is cool if you win the EL if you don't well its fE£cking shit!

coming 4th is nice but its still meh! compared to picking up a major trophy.

 

[newbie]

It’s an achievement to finish in the top half these days.

look at brighton and brentford lauded but 8th and below

 

[Trix]

The teams that are regularly in and around the top 4 win the vast majority of trophies. There are outliers but they are few and far between, again generally speaking.

Regular champions league means more income, a bigger pull for players, and an ever increasing fan base around the world through more TV and media saturation. Ofcourse winning trophies is the end goal, but the real top teams do both. If we aren't aspiring to do both we will never be a top team.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Kind of. But also kind of not. Bizarre circumstance of this ill fated season led us, by which I mean Ange, to actually prioritise a cup competition above league form for the first time in just about forever. This never happened during our «top four» years. At best, a balance was sought. But we never went flat out in a cup; it was reserve keeper mentality all the way to the business end - if we got that far. We were stuck in an unsolvable riddle, without the resources- and definitely not the board room approval - to compete on both fronts.

This /\

 

[rabbikeane]

Any season we qualify for Champions League or win a trophy (as long as we aren't relegated) is a good season.
But over time we need both regularly, and we should never be outside of UEFA competitions.
Listen, if we never qualified for Champions League, but had won 10 League Cups, then fans would be crying about how they are fed up of never playing with the big boys in CL.
Reality is a big club need both. 5 years without CL football is unacceptable, 5 years without a trophy is unacceptable.

 

[Cochise]

As others have said: UCL football means better players which should mean better results in all competitions.

The core of our Europa final team (Romero, Bentancur, Bissouma, Porro, Sarr, Udogie and Richarlison) signed for us when UCL football was a realistic achievement.

I love the fact that we won a trophy and want to repeat that more often than every 17 years, but top 4/5 and regular UCL football is how you get there more often than not.

 

[SuperLuka]

Man United have won 5 titles in the last 10 years, one EL, two FA cups, and two Carabao's. One of them last year.
However, their reputation as a club is rapidly declining, and their fans are livid about the state of the club. Their only real point of pride right now since their last league win is that EL title.

How you perform in major tournaments is arguably more important, even if you don't win as that sets you up with a higher likelihood of long term success.

I don't think it's quite that simple. Man u came from the very top and have been in rapid decline. Currently everyone can only see one direction for them.

If they'd been a steady top 6 team but won 5 trophies in 10 years, they'd be absolutely delighted.

 

[DannyNZ]

The teams that are regularly in and around the top 4 win the vast majority of trophies. There are outliers but they are few and far between, again generally speaking.

Regular champions league means more income, a bigger pull for players, and an ever increasing fan base around the world through more TV and media saturation. Ofcourse winning trophies is the end goal, but the real top teams do both. If we aren't aspiring to do both we will never be a top team.

Couldn’t have said it better.

 

[adamsky]

The only sustainable way to win trophies long term is to have both. That is not to say you can’t have a season or two outside CL, but you need to be qualifying for it fairly regularly.

 

[rossdapep]

After our victory on Wednesday night hopefully it puts to bed the idea that finishing top 4 is the most important thing every season

Absolute nonsense

Give me Silverware all day long

We don’t have owners with ambitions to win the league or who give the manager the resources to compete on multiple fronts.

Our manager should prioritise the cup competitions

The ambition to just finish 4th in the league every season is both embarrassing and disrespectful to us

The Game is about Glory and we had some the other night

First time we qualified for CL was fantastic. Really enjoyed it and the Redknapp run.

But I certainly didn't get that same joy in the years after it, nor did I with the top 4 chase. Maybe under Conte cause we beat Arsenal to it but I certainly became desensitized to it.

A trophy win feels a thousand times better, especially with a parade like today.

However, there does need to be a bit of balance.

We can't just bin off the league and expect a trophy to cure all.

We need to make the most of every situation and be ambitious on all fronts.

I don't want to see us going weak in the league cup just cause we have tough PL games, nor do I want to see us treat the EL like we have done in the past.

We should always aim to win something.

I've said this many times but under this ownership and the league we are in, the CL and PL are incredibly unlikely for us to win.

We should always seek the FA Cup or League Cup but if we find ourselves deep in the PL or CL we probably need to make some sacrifices in order to go as far as possible.

It's just too difficult to compete on all fronts.

Look at Villa, they did well in the cups/Europe but they couldn't go gar enough and league form has suffered slightly so that they have left qualifying again in the balance.

It think this club got caught up in top 4 for far too long and sacked off other comps when it could probably have done both a cup run and top 4. But that could be because of the ownership.