The Top 4 myth

[southlondonyiddo]

After our victory on Wednesday night hopefully it puts to bed the idea that finishing top 4 is the most important thing every season

Absolute nonsense

Give me Silverware all day long

We don’t have owners with ambitions to win the league or who give the manager the resources to compete on multiple fronts.

Our manager should prioritise the cup competitions

The ambition to just finish 4th in the league every season is both embarrassing and disrespectful to us

The Game is about Glory and we had some the other night

 

[easley91]

I think it being the Europa League helped in the sense that winning it got a Champions League place, so it was the two for one trophy which is a win for everyone. Levy gets his Champions League money, the players get Champions League football and we all got a much needed trophy to celebrate and enjoy.

 

[fecka]

Yes, the game is about glory.

But to build a team that can consistently compete against the best without an owner bankrolling us, we consistently need that CL money and the improved reputation that comes with playing in that tournament.
If we win the Carabao next year but end up in 10th, we'd likely be worse off as a club than if we had no trophies and get 4th.

I understand many won't agree with me, and maybe I'm in the wrong here. But to me, what matters the most is competing for the major trophies and being in the right competitions. I.e, CL, EL, and the league.
I personally care a lot less about the FA Cup and the Carabao, even though I see their relative value in improving the club's mentality, which I'll argue was more important before our EL title.

 

[ReadieSpur]

We didnt just win any old silverware... We won a MAJOR EUROPEAN TROPHY

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

It’s BOTH.

Winning things and consistently qualifying for the CL which in turn increases our chances of being a top team who can win things regularly!

 

[Gbspurs]

After our victory on Wednesday night hopefully it puts to bed the idea that finishing top 4 is the most important thing every season

Absolute nonsense

Give me Silverware all day long

We don’t have owners with ambitions to win the league or who give the manager the resources to compete on multiple fronts.

Our manager should prioritise the cup competitions

The ambition to just finish 4th in the league every season is both embarrassing and disrespectful to us

The Game is about Glory and we had some the other night

I don't think it entirely puts it to bed. It just happens that our trophy also equalled the reward for finishing top 4. If we'd won the FA Cup would we feel the same?

 

[fecka]

Man United have won 5 titles in the last 10 years, one EL, two FA cups, and two Carabao's. One of them last year.
However, their reputation as a club is rapidly declining, and their fans are livid about the state of the club. Their only real point of pride right now since their last league win is that EL title.

How you perform in major tournaments is arguably more important, even if you don't win as that sets you up with a higher likelihood of long term success.

 

[Nerine]

If you aren’t finishing in the top 6, I’m not really sure what the league offers, else.

I’d probably take 9th next season, a decent run in the CL, maybe win the Super Cup and the FA cup if offered now - with Ange as manager.

Back to back trophy wins would be so much more important to us than a few league positions IMO.

I think the problem largely stems from the human need for vindication or gratification these days. The requirement for the constant dopamine hit of wins, everything now culture and impatience is a very strong influencer nowadays and therefore a dodgy league campaign is always going to get people lashing out.

“Weekend ruined!!” It’s not. Not really.

It’s a failure to see the bigger picture, IMO, but I do somewhat understand it.

That said, I’d rather have some stones, stand firm, suck up a few dropped league places here and there and hoover up some trophies. They’re far more important in the long run.

Appreciate others will see this very differently.

 

[Nerine]

Man United have won 5 titles in the last 10 years, one EL, two FA cups, and two Carabao's. One of them last year.
However, their reputation as a club is rapidly declining, and their fans are livid about the state of the club.

How you perform in major tournaments is arguably more important, even if you don't win as that sets you up with a higher likelihood of long term success.

I wonder whether this says more about the state of the fans.

Depends on the perspective and your starting point, I guess…

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

As much as I agree with you from a fan view point I don't think it's that simple for players. Good players want to play in the champions league. Players are more likely to come to us if we are consistently in the champions league, they won't give a fuck if we're winning a Carabao Cup every other season.

 

[fecka]

I wonder whether this says more about the state of the fans.

Isn't it just human nature, though?
Reputation matters, and consistently being in the CL but not winning titles is arguably more important to attract the best players and improve your chances of a league title compared to winning the Carabao or FA cup every other year, but not getting CL.

 

[carpediem991]

Winning cups gets the most excitement out of a fan/player and rightly so.

Although you simply can not plan winning cups, as they are always down to the draw and also some match luck.

The league position tells more about a teams quality because you basically always get what you deserve following 38 match days. I hope we are in the mix for top 4/6 next season again. If we pick up a cup on the way, the better.

 

[Armstrong_11]

I think the top 4/5 is something more achievable and can be consistent.

a cup win is a coin toss. we were lucky.

We can keep finishing in the top4, but winning a (major) cup every year.... unless your club has a sugar daddy, its pretty much impossible.

 

[spurmin]

As much as I agree with you from a fan view point I don't think it's that simple for players. Good players want to play in the champions league. Players are more likely to come to us if we are consistently in the champions league, they won't give a fuck if we're winning a Carabao Cup every other season.

I think if you pay up some players don’t worry if they are in the champions league.
Saudi is good for some.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I think if you pay up some players don’t worry if they are in the champions league.
Saudi is good for some.

Yeah and it's easier to 'pay up' if you're playing in the champion league.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

I think the top 4/5 is something more achievable and can be consistent.

a cup win is a coin toss. we were lucky.

We can keep finishing in the top4, but winning a (major) cup every year.... unless your club has a sugar daddy, its pretty much impossible.

So we finish 3rd every season for the next 34 years and don’t win a major trophy!

You’ll be happy with that?

 

[DannyNZ]

The sad reality is money rules and if you’re not playing in Europe year after year then you’re likely going backwards. Top four is what allows your club to invest in players and be able to compete for trophies. They’re not mutually exclusive and a team regularly competing at a top four level is going to have chances of winning trophies.

 

[muppetman]

Top 4 is a means to an end, not the end itself.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Isn't it just human nature, though?
Reputation matters, and consistently being in the CL but not winning titles is arguably more important to attract the best players and improve your chances of a league title compared to winning the Carabao or FA cup every other year, but not getting CL.

Please tell me the wonderful players we signed when we were champ lge for 4 seasons with Poch.
Money talks, we just won’t pay the wages

 

[SpursSince1980]

Yes, the game is about glory.

But to build a team that can consistently compete against the best without an owner bankrolling us, we consistently need that CL money and the improved reputation that comes with playing in that tournament.
If we win the Carabao next year but end up in 10th, we'd likely be worse off as a club than if we had no trophies and get 4th.

I understand many won't agree with me, and maybe I'm in the wrong here. But to me, what matters the most is competing for the major trophies and being in the right competitions. I.e, CL, EL, and the league.
I personally care a lot less about the FA Cup and the Carabao, even though I see their relative value in improving the club's mentality, which I'll argue was more important before our EL title.

If i had to choose win four trophies over the next four seasons, but finish between 12th and 8th in all four of those seasons. Versus finish between 6 and 2nd for those same four seasons but win no trophies, the choice is easy!

I deeply care about all of the cups. Because at the end of the day, that’s what I remember the most. That’s what brings the most joy, by far. And I don’t think it diminishes our mentality. Far from it. It means we have developed a squad that knows how to get to finals and win them.

This has been the worst league season I have experienced. Yet, im absolutely chuffed, as I got to finally see us win something important for the first time since 1991.

Yes, the game is about Glory. Not about mentality. The latter is derived from the glory.