The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[spursfan77]

Just throwing this out there, but in that case do you not think that maybe one of Poch’s strengthens may conversely also prove to be weakness?

The ultra fit, train harder, run harder approach could mean burn out is far more likely and that the peak shelf life of a Poch team is shorter.

There are advantages of having a young, hungry team that always buy into this method ( and it certainly synchs well with Levy’s approach), but I’m not sure it’s conducive to winning trophies. You always need a good balance between youth and experience, preferably with some players hitting their peak.

Plus I’ve always thought it would put some players off joining. Sure we don’t want lazy players but if people hear it’s too hard they won’t want to put themselves through it, especially if they could join Man U, arsenal or Chelsea and train at a normal level and be in the same position (financially and successfully) as if they joined us.

 

[muppetman]

Plus I’ve always thought it would put some players off joining. Sure we don’t want lazy players but if people hear it’s too hard they won’t want to put themselves through it, especially if they could join Man U, arsenal or Chelsea and train at a normal level and be in the same position (financially and successfully) as if they joined us.

Anyone who doesn't like to work hard for their £60K+ per week can do one as far as I'm concerned - let em go to United etc!

 

[jacko73]

Just throwing this out there, but in that case do you not think that maybe one of Poch’s strengthens may conversely also prove to be weakness?

The ultra fit, train harder, run harder approach could mean burn out is far more likely and that the peak shelf life of a Poch team is shorter.

There are advantages of having a young, hungry team that always buy into this method ( and it certainly synchs well with Levy’s approach), but I’m not sure it’s conducive to winning trophies. You always need a good balance between youth and experience, preferably with some players hitting their peak.

Yes i do, but i want to find out before we chase him out.

Also it's why i think Poch is so good for Levy as he polishes the turd and then we sell him for good money before burnout. I caveat that with maybe we are just learning that the transfer market has changed all the big teams have tried to copy us, Monaco, Dortmund as they don't like the prices that we all demand. It could go both ways as i think Madrid have clogged themselves up with so many good young players and it has not paid off for them, so they maybe change and go back to buying just the highest quality. Even Barca have found it difficult with Dembele and Malcom. Their fans are so used to seeing ready made players that they are not willing to wait for these guys to start performing. Honestly even Man Utd are struggling with all the good young players they have as they are just not going to hand their fans a title yet, what scars me the most is just handing them Poch it is frightening what he would do with that team. Rashford, martial and james with chong, Gomes and greenwood behind them.

Anyone old enough will know we tried to get Fergie and Scholar (our chairman) had agreed to get him, then United went and got him, they then took Beckham and then our Marketing guy that built them into what they are today. Imagine repeating that again.

 

[spursfan77]

Anyone who doesn't like to work hard for their £60K+ per week can do one as far as I'm concerned - let em go to United etc!

That’s not what I meant. There’s working hard enough to be able to play football for a top 6 club at a high level and then there’s pushing players too much. Some might just not fancy it. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s happened in the past.

 

[rossdapep]

Just throwing this out there, but in that case do you not think that maybe one of Poch’s strengthens may conversely also prove to be weakness?

The ultra fit, train harder, run harder approach could mean burn out is far more likely and that the peak shelf life of a Poch team is shorter.

There are advantages of having a young, hungry team that always buy into this method ( and it certainly synchs well with Levy’s approach), but I’m not sure it’s conducive to winning trophies. You always need a good balance between youth and experience, preferably with some players hitting their peak.

The weird fitness guy who said Klopp and Poch will burn out their teams mat have had a point.

Klopp had previous experience at Dortmund and realised he needed to turn the press on and off, whereas I think Poch didn't alter anything in this regard.

I'm wondering now if he went easy on the players after the WC or if he continued to flag them.

 

[Spurs_S.A.]

you are so negative about spurs. I keep seeing you and Ron say that Winks is our DM, he is not, he is a deep playmaker, just because you have a myopic view of that position on the field. here are names of others that also play in the position but are not DM's. Modric, carrick, xavi, pirlo and jorgino. Now i am not saying Winks is as good as these, but tried to give you names that you would know. They were also not DM's, but they had players next to or either side of them that did the tackling.

Can you see that buying no one was a problem in the summer of 18-19 whilst also losing Dembele and Wanyama to injuries. whilst also losing Dier to injury from xmas, by the way Winks and Sissoko also kept getting injured themselves but were getting rushed back. Just before Wolves happened i think we were within 5 points of the top 2. This was the problem, we have tried to correct it with our signings this season, but they have not settled in yet. Now our problems are at the back they got old and injured or are just not good enough. Pochettino knew 3 years ago that Toby and Jan had lost pace that is why i believe he signed Sanchez and played him to cover as he wants them to play high on the pitch, but they have lost a little bit of confidence in their own pace so drop deeper, so then our midfield drops in deeper etc...

Now to the reason we did not buy in my opinion was because levy wanted to borrow a lot of money in the bond market and needed to show good results to the City to allow him to get what was a ballooning debt. He was only able to get this debt because Poch had done so well. Levy managed to mortgage us for 640 million pounds, but at the same time he produced 2 x proffit of 150 ish million pounds, that is sat in the bank already (ask yourself why he did not pay that off the debt) because he knows we need a re-build, he can leverage this money as we don't pay all transfers up front. By the way we are already into this season so we are probably on our way to another 150 million profit this season (maybe more as its in our stadium). They need to share this responsibility as it was Levy that needed Poch to not purchase anyone. Sometimes we need to read between the lines.

Tottenham wanted a mortgage of 640,000,000 so needed all of our profit to show the bank that they are a)profitable b)got a high turnover to afford c) not carrying lots of IOU's for player purchases so that they can afford their monthly payments. At the same time managed to save about 300,000,000 in the bank. why did he not just pay that money off the loan? if you drop a few zero's off you might be able to visualise a bit easier to a normal person getting a mortgage. Companies also have to prove they can afford.

So these glaring holes in our club are holding back Poch as he needs about 15 months before they are ready and fit enough for his system. So they share this responsibility (Levy and Poch). You see the problems now, but think back to what Poch was telling us in the run up to the final. He knew this was coming even if he got everyone in last summer as he would not be able to have them all Poch fit and ready to play his style.

If you want to keep changing manager and go back to old Tottenham, just take a look at how hard this is to appoint the right guy. take a look at Man Utd they can have anyone they like and how many have they had since Sir Alex? Look at Arsenal already sounding like the fans want Emery gone. also look at chelsea change every 2 years.

If we can get out of this shit period that Levy imposed on Poch, we will be fine as we already know he can do it with inferior players (on the cheap) imagine what he can do with superior players. We also need to be smart with transfers and be like all the others were with us when we hit 5th place. so if Chilwell or Maddison or Ndidi are on our list somewhere then just do (and pay that little bit more it to also keep them rebuilding and behind us) Levy will have to change mentality here for this to happen. He needs to though as they all did it to us.

Thanks for this post. Some great info.
Will all this said, the clear question for me is Poch still the person whom has the ability to deliver success on the pitch. And by success i mean trophies. He has showed some frailty in this ability. If yes, then great let's stick by him. If not, then let's look elsewhere.

 

[Shadydan]

Plus I’ve always thought it would put some players off joining. Sure we don’t want lazy players but if people hear it’s too hard they won’t want to put themselves through it, especially if they could join Man U, arsenal or Chelsea and train at a normal level and be in the same position (financially and successfully) as if they joined us.

Hmm If players don't want to come to a club where you don't work hard then ultimately you're not good enough and you have the wrong mentality to be a top player. Funny how the two managers currently sitting on top of the Prem are renowned for intense sessions and therefore intense football and renowned for getting the absolute max out of their players, you might as well throw Poch in that mix as he's seen as the 3rd best manager in this league in many people's eyes despite what's happening this season.

Contrary to popular belief Poch isn't the only manager to take double sessions or have grueling or strict schedules, they all do it. It's just that people like to pint fingers and look for excuses as to why our players are flagging. Poch pushing is players isn't a new thing, we all knew he did that at Southampton and with us before we were on a downward spiral so why has it become such an issue now?

 

[spursfan77]

Hmm If players don't want to come to a club where you don't work hard then ultimately you're not good enough and you have the wrong mentality to be a top player. Funny how the two managers currently sitting on top of the Prem are renowned for intense sessions and therefore intense football and renowned for getting the absolute max out of their players, you might as well throw Poch in that mix as he's seen as the 3rd best manager in this league in many people's eyes despite what's happening this season.

Contrary to popular belief Poch isn't the only manager to take double sessions or have grueling or strict schedules, they all do it. It's just that people like to pint fingers and look for excuses as to why our players are flagging. Poch pushing is players isn't a new thing, we all knew he did that at Southampton and with us before we were on a downward spiral so why has it become such an issue now?

Because we are doing shit and people are looking for excuses. Plus I posted that i read it’s been said from inside the club that some players are exhausted because of the training and now we’ve had news of ex spurs players saying it.

 

[Shadydan]

Because we are doing shit and people are looking for excuses. Plus I posted that i read it’s been said from inside the club that some players are exhausted because of the training and now we’ve had news of ex spurs players saying it.

Where were the complaints and over scrutiny about our fitness schedule three years ago...oh that's right there weren't any, even if the players were tired it's nothing to do with the training sessions more to do with them hearing the same messages over and over again, we're talking professional athletes who have access to the best dietitians and doctor's in the world yet these are the same players who manage to run around for 90 mins for their countries and are able to turn it on when they feel like it (see Palace match and Bayern first 30 mins)

People will always look for excuses when things aren't going well, that's natural human instinct. If players are complaining about the coach's intense schedule then they've got the wrong mentality.

 

[jacko73]

Thanks for this post. Some great info.
Will all this said, the clear question for me is Poch still the person whom has the ability to deliver success on the pitch. And by success i mean trophies. He has showed some frailty in this ability. If yes, then great let's stick by him. If not, then let's look elsewhere.

I work in risk reward and have followed Tottnham all my life. This is such a big moment in our clubs future. We have been competing with the big boys on the pitch, but not even competing with everton and leicester off it, mainly because levy took his eye off the ball to get the stadium done and thought like a lot of people that you keep the great team together, but this team has been run into the ground.

If it is that easy to get a new manager why have chelsea, arsenal and Man utd all failed with their big budgets to stay with us. They all took risks with their managers in the job right now and at the moment chelsea look to be the only ones to really pay off, but it's so early yet, lets see how they go when they have a loss or two.

Pochettino performed very well for 2 seasons at saints and then an ok season in year 1, then had 4 good years with us and this one is not great, he is proven and the pattern is good for us. But we have to accept that this team needs changing quick to help him improve the performances I think we had a good start in the summer, but this time it cant just be a team that we sign we must sign competition to enable rest for our players. We need Levy to come up with the goods in Jan (he never does) and next summer. Or we will be saying goodbye to Kane I think, by the way the only manger that i would trust to get us another Kane is Poch, i still do not know how he got the Southampton forward to be so good, I cant remember his name.

Can you name me a player that left Pochettino and his career went on from there, I cant, maybe Lallana at a push. So maybe his system or coaching is all it is cracked up to be and that is why he has to push them harder.

 

[slartibartfast]

Posters who dont agree with you turfing out the word 'agenda' like their view isnt one lol.

Whatever the reason for our transfers, state of squad, blah blah blah, its Poch that picks the team, the formation and makes the subs (or doesnt make them as is normally the case) so the buck stops there imo.

I dont want him out. I want him to see the glaringly obvious, that Eriksen is done, that Winks and Sissoko leaves our back 4 exposed and that if someone is having a stinker then bloody sub them early.

I want him to drill into the team that the object is to score not just keep the ball for possesions sake.

I want a Waldorf salad.

 

[skiba]

It certainly feels like we've reached the end of the road with Poch. I think his management style and the demands he places on players has a shelf life and my gut is telling me that we are witnessing the end of that now. Klopp suffered the same at Dortmund and Guardiola has even talked about how players stop listening to him after 3 years. If these managers are prone to these issues then I don't see why Poch would be any different.

To be fair, I do think Poch recognises this and I think he's probably trying to motivate/stimulate the payers by trying new formations and ideas etc but it just seems to be confusing the situation even more. If anything he's moving away from his strength in coaching one system and perfecting that to trying new tactics week in week out. I had hoped the Red Star game might have been the eureka moment but it seems we are back to where we were again after the Liverpool game.

Saying that, I will continue to back him whilst he remains in the hot seat in the hope he can turn it around. My preference is always to see Spurs play attacking front foot pressing football and therefore I would rather take a chance on Poch turning it round and reassess in the summer than go down the Mourinho or Allegri route now.

 

[Goobers]

It certainly feels like we've reached the end of the road with Poch. I think his management style and the demands he places on players has a shelf life and my gut is telling me that we are witnessing the end of that now. Klopp suffered the same at Dortmund and Guardiola has even talked about how players stop listening to him after 3 years. If these managers are prone to these issues then I don't see why Poch would be any different.

To be fair, I do think Poch recognises this and I think he's probably trying to motivate/stimulate the payers by trying new formations and ideas etc but it just seems to be confusing the situation even more. If anything he's moving away from his strength in coaching one system and perfecting that to trying new tactics week in week out. I had hoped the Red Star game might have been the eureka moment but it seems we are back to where we were again after the Liverpool game.

Saying that, I will continue to back him whilst he remains in the hot seat in the hope he can turn it around. My preference is always to see Spurs play attacking front foot pressing football and therefore I would rather take a chance on Poch turning it round and reassess in the summer than go down the Mourinho or Allegri route now.

I agree that the same squad will stop responding to the manager after a while but I do think that if the squad is refreshed then the manager can continue to work. I still think the club and the board are invested in him.

 

[knowlespurs]

Very very poor timing for the latest installment of his book including our champions league final, not what is needed at all

 

[Shadydan]

Very very poor timing for the latest installment of his book including our champions league final, not what is needed at all

Why? will the players become even more tired after they read it?

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

?

 

[Goobers]

What book ?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Poch is a good manager that is not a question for debate, he’s probably even a great one, to be voted in the top 3 coaches at the fifa awards says it all. I used to love the guy when he was happy poch and I have so much time for him given what he’s achieved with us and where he’s taken the team and club from and to now. BUT he certainly has his flaws and our form has been poor for around 12 months now and a LOT of it has been down to him:
-constantly changing the team
-continuing to pick his ‘favourite’ players when they’re badly off form or wanting to leave
-stubbornly continuing with the diamond formation for AGESSSS when it clearly wasn’t working
-not reacting in games with tactical changes
-not making subs or changing the game until it’s too late
-fucking stupid experiments like winks DM, Sanchez RB over actual RB’s
-taking ages to integrate and play new signings
-negativity and contradicting himself in the media

so I’m sorry but for me it will be better for everyone if he now moves on at the end of this season. All good things come to an end and I really hope we can win the FA CUP as that has always been our cup it was the cup the Argentines made famous for us villa and ardiles so for him to win that and then leave this summer would be the perfect end.

 

[Spurs_S.A.]

I work in risk reward and have followed Tottnham all my life. This is such a big moment in our clubs future. We have been competing with the big boys on the pitch, but not even competing with everton and leicester off it, mainly because levy took his eye off the ball to get the stadium done and thought like a lot of people that you keep the great team together, but this team has been run into the ground.

If it is that easy to get a new manager why have chelsea, arsenal and Man utd all failed with their big budgets to stay with us. They all took risks with their managers in the job right now and at the moment chelsea look to be the only ones to really pay off, but it's so early yet, lets see how they go when they have a loss or two.

Pochettino performed very well for 2 seasons at saints and then an ok season in year 1, then had 4 good years with us and this one is not great, he is proven and the pattern is good for us. But we have to accept that this team needs changing quick to help him improve the performances I think we had a good start in the summer, but this time it cant just be a team that we sign we must sign competition to enable rest for our players. We need Levy to come up with the goods in Jan (he never does) and next summer. Or we will be saying goodbye to Kane I think, by the way the only manger that i would trust to get us another Kane is Poch, i still do not know how he got the Southampton forward to be so good, I cant remember his name.

Can you name me a player that left Pochettino and his career went on from there, I cant, maybe Lallana at a push. So maybe his system or coaching is all it is cracked up to be and that is why he has to push them harder.

Mate, you are so far off the mark on my post.
Poch is a motivator, no doubt. He is no tactical genius. My point is can he deliver silverware with the abilities he has. If yes let's stick with him, if not let's change now. You being a long time Spurs supporter would know how good this current squad was the past few seasons and it's criminal we haven't won anything.
I assume you are talking about Jay Rodriguez, in any event I'm not getting into that discussion cause on the flip side some have gone backward as well if you look closer.

 

[LDNYid]

I think if we lose to Everton, his position is untenable. I don’t believe this is all his fault - I really want it to work for him; but I just think a combination of factors have led us to this point - increasingly, there seems like there may be no return.