The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[spids]

We smashed Palace 4-0 playing brilliantly but it didn't fix any issues or give us confidence as we followed it up with a draw away to Olympiacos and then a defeat at Leicester, having led both matches.

I'm not convinced a big win fixes anything.

We did smash Palace, then Poch decided to significantly change the team for the next match against Olympiacos. We also played well away at Leicester and looked like wining until a combination of a crap VAR decision (disallow Son's goal) and an even crappier substitution (Wanymama!?) won the game for Leicester.

 

[Primativ]

Reading your last post really puts it into perspective just how bad we've been.

And let's not forget the 3-1 against Leicester which flattered us big time. If I remember correctly they carved us open time and time again.

I meant honestly, if we did a little semi analysis of each league game since last January I think it would crystallise it for some people just how bad we've been.

You can go back further than last January. Remember the games in late 2018 where we needed late goals to beat the likes of Burnley 1 nil at Wembley..

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I think he needs a good long break and have a rethink, maybe learn some new tricks of the trade and gather inspiration. In fact I've held the view for a couple of years that Pochettino needed to hone his skills still. But earlier I thought he could do it within his current job. To me, I think he has proven that he can't evolve where he is now, and should take the consequences of that.

 

[JonnySpurs]

We did smash Palace, then Poch decided to significantly change the team for the next match against Olympiacos. We also played well away at Leicester and looked like wining until a combination of a crap VAR decision (disallow Son's goal) and an even crappier substitution (Wanymama!?) won the game for Leicester.

Agreed, the Palace game felt like the turning point and I think it was proving to be cos we were actually pretty good vs Leicester and had that game won at 2-0. Make no mistake, we were absolutely robbed and actually I feel that our decline has been since that result after we had started to show real improvement. Olympiacos in between those games looked like a poor result but it wasn't really. We were 2-0 up and drew 2-2, which had you not known the circumstances behind it you'd probably take in a ground that most teams don't win at. Equally the changes Poch made were weird and slowed the momentum we should've taken from the Palace game.

Since the Leicester loss, we were dumped from the cup by Colchester, scraped past Saints and then came Bayern. We were again pretty good for 44 mins and well in the game at HT. It all came crumbling down in the 2nd half but it was still something of an aboration. We had low confidence going into the Brighton game but I feel quite strongly that had Lloris not fucked us in the first 3 mins then it likely would've been very different.

My fear is that we could well win tomorrow night, though nobody will care much if we do as it's just Red Star. It might even be a palace type of game where we click and run riot but we then go to Liverpool and will likely lose so any opportunity to build momentum is going to be lost.

 

[JonnySpurs]

My personal view is that it's simply going to take too much time and player turnover to get to a place where Poch can re-establish his philosophy on a refreshed squad and by that time serious damage could be done to this season and our chances to retain our key players for next season.

Sadly I feel Poch's time at this club has come to an end. The CL run last season was like a last ditch hail mary pass that was so nearly caught. It would've been the perfect way for Poch to end his time at the club and I think he, and the players, know that it should've been, win or lose. We're now at the point where sentiment is the only thing keeping him here. I don't think his heart is still in it and the players know it too which is why they're not responding anymore.

Players are going to leave this club no matter what but if we change the manager now then there is a chance that even those players can respond to the new tactics/gameplan, contribute in their final season here and we can start winning again. This hasn't become a bad squad overnight. When they're fit and firing this team would still be the 3rd or 4th best team in the league and still can be this season but I personally don't think that will happen with Poch in charge. It sucks, cos I love the man for what he's done for us but it's time for both sides to be honest with each other and walk away.

 

[spursfan77]

We did smash Palace, then Poch decided to significantly change the team for the next match against Olympiacos. We also played well away at Leicester and looked like wining until a combination of a crap VAR decision (disallow Son's goal) and an even crappier substitution (Wanymama!?) won the game for Leicester.

exactly. Dele played well at the weekend and needs a run of games yet you know he’lol be benched again tomorrow. He changes the team up too much for the sake of it. Players don’t know if they’re coming or going.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

You can go back further than last January. Remember the games in late 2018 where we needed late goals to beat the likes of Burnley 1 nil at Wembley..

We smashed them with about 80% possession that night and it was about 3 days after our great result at Camp Nou where we left it all pretty much on the field with a pretty good performance. There's no shame in a 1-0 win against bus parkers who come to spoil the game.

Pick a better example. There are plenty.

 

[spursfan77]

Agreed, the Palace game felt like the turning point and I think it was proving to be cos we were actually pretty good vs Leicester and had that game won at 2-0. Make no mistake, we were absolutely robbed and actually I feel that our decline has been since that result after we had started to show real improvement. Olympiacos in between those games looked like a poor result but it wasn't really. We were 2-0 up and drew 2-2, which had you not known the circumstances behind it you'd probably take in a ground that most teams don't win at. Equally the changes Poch made were weird and slowed the momentum we should've taken from the Palace game.

Since the Leicester loss, we were dumped from the cup by Colchester, scraped past Saints and then came Bayern. We were again pretty good for 44 mins and well in the game at HT. It all came crumbling down in the 2nd half but it was still something of an aboration. We had low confidence going into the Brighton game but I feel quite strongly that had Lloris not fucked us in the first 3 mins then it likely would've been very different.

My fear is that we could well win tomorrow night, though nobody will care much if we do as it's just Red Star. It might even be a palace type of game where we click and run riot but we then go to Liverpool and will likely lose so any opportunity to build momentum is going to be lost.

I wouldn’t be shocked if we didn’t win tomorrow night.

I’ve got a ticket and don’t really want to go as I feel as apathetic about it as I did under sherwood because of how the team are treating games and match paying fans but I will go and hopefully we will have an enjoyable win. But I don’t hold out much hope.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

I'm surprised at the the comments that we played well in the Leicester match.

I thought that we looked pretty decent going forward but we were still wide open at the back and never truly looked in control. We still showed the systemic weaknesses we have been showing since January too.

I agree we were very unfortunate with our second goal being ruled out but that doesn't excuse us losing the game, that was down to us being poor defensively again and not being able to control games.

 

[richard_gleeson]

The problem is that its such a massive rebuild required with probably the whole back four unsettled and a weak centre midfield. Its serious money. Poch will need to be backed or it could take years. However a new coach (Mourinho) may settle down some of the players and give them the thoughts of trophy possibilities...

 

[mil1lion]

That's what I men

We smashed Palace 4-0 playing brilliantly but it didn't fix any issues or give us confidence as we followed it up with a draw away to Olympiacos and then a defeat at Leicester, having led both matches.

I'm not convinced a big win fixes anything.

that's the problem though. Just when we get a decent win and performance we draw after going 2 up which just knocked us back again. Although we did well against Leicester but still lost. Everything is going against us right now. A win against Liverpool rather than a Palace would make a much bigger difference.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

That's what I men
that's the problem though. Just when we get a decent win and performance we draw after going 2 up which just knocked us back again. Although we did well against Leicester but still lost. Everything is going against us right now. A win against Liverpool rather than a Palace would make a much bigger difference.

But things are going against us of because of our own ineptitude. There was no excuse for giving up the lead against Olympiakos, we were in total control but there was no sign of confidence despite this.

I know what you mean about beating Liverpool to spark some kind of comeback but its just not going to happen because of the systemic problems we've got in the current team. The combination of ageing players, contracts, erratic line ups, poor shape and tactics is just too much to fix quickly.

Our only way back is to eradicate certain personnel from the line up, stick to a balanced shape for a run of games and get some kind of form, even if its patchy, to get us through to January. At that point we can purge some of the trouble personnel.

 

[bat-chain]

Still believe in him. I honestly think if we can hold our nerve through this we will all come out stronger.

Is he having a bad time of it? Absolutely.

The question for me is, can really good managers have bad spells, seasons even and still be the right person to hold their jobs. History tells us they absolutely can.

Klopp had 3 years finishing behind Pochettino, Ferguson had years finishing 13th and 11th a couple of times, Benetez had some poor seasons at Liverpool but still should have been stuck with over Roy, Man Utd would probably have been better keeping Mourinho.

To my mind supporters need to at least try and understand that Pochettino is allowed to have a poor season, it’s OK, you don’t have to enjoy it, but you don’t have to destroy him either. Anyone we replaced him with would likely also make mistakes and have poor spells. All the managers above, who people at the moment would love to get in have had similar moments and yet it's being overlooked.

Worse it's being overlooked so people can destroy one of the best managers we have ever had who have given us so much. Give Mauricio a bit more of your understanding if you can, because when this turns you will be glad you stood behind him.

Love you Poch.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Still believe in him. I honestly think if we can hold our nerve through this we will all come out stronger.

Is he having a bad time of it? Absolutely.

The question for me is, can really good managers have bad spells, seasons even and still be the right person to hold their jobs. History tells us they absolutely can.

Klopp had 3 years finishing behind Pochettino, Ferguson had years finishing 13th and 11th a couple of times, Benetez had some poor seasons at Liverpool but still should have been stuck with over Roy, Man Utd would probably have been better keeping Mourinho.

To my mind supporters need to at least try and understand that Pochettino is allowed to have a poor season, it’s OK, you don’t have to enjoy it, but you don’t have to destroy him either. Anyone we replaced him with would likely also make mistakes and have poor spells. All the managers above, who people at the moment would love to get in have had similar moments and yet it's being overlooked.

Worse it's being overlooked so people can destroy one of the best managers we have ever had who have given us so much. Give Mauricio a bit more of your understanding if you can, because when this turns you will be glad you stood behind him.

Love you Poch.

I like your sentiments,my only reservation is somebody needs to give him some understanding....understanding how to manage this team.
It's fine the loyalty,bravado etc....but let's find a way to move upfield and maybe shoot a bit more you know run abaht a bit more......Science for Dummys

 

[DelBoyN17]

Reading your last post really puts it into perspective just how bad we've been.

And let's not forget the 3-1 against Leicester which flattered us big time. If I remember correctly they carved us open time and time again.

I meant honestly, if we did a little semi analysis of each league game since last January I think it would crystallise it for some people just how bad we've been.

I know it’s actually scary how poor we’ve been, your right the Leicester game at Wembley was mad, Harvey Barnes missed two absolute sitters & Vardy missed the penalty, yes we won 3-1 but it was massively flattering on our part, even the 1-0 against Newcastle was poor where Sonny again saved the day, the bit that also makes me laugh is how much people go on about our majestic champions league run, let’s have it right we were shit, threw the game in Milan, car crash away to PSV, got battered at home to Barca, scrapped a win against both PSG & Inter at Wembley & qualified by drawing away to Barca B & even then we needed results to go for us, Dortmund home & away & city at home we’re the only champions league games I felt we played well, lucky away at city & Ajax in the first leg at home we were appalling, in the semi final of the champions league at home & we didn’t work their keeper once, Lucas single hand-idly got us to the final & then got dropped, & even then like I said we didn’t turn up in Madrid, I could go on mate but all people want to do is bang on about how great it’s been under Poch, yes the first 3 years were great albeit we won nothing but times & things change & that’s sadly we’re we now find ourselves, it’s not good enough & anyone that wants to tell me otherwise just look at our form in the 2019 calendar year, it’s disgraceful !!!!!!

 

[dude573]

Still believe in him. I honestly think if we can hold our nerve through this we will all come out stronger.

Is he having a bad time of it? Absolutely.

The question for me is, can really good managers have bad spells, seasons even and still be the right person to hold their jobs. History tells us they absolutely can.

Klopp had 3 years finishing behind Pochettino, Ferguson had years finishing 13th and 11th a couple of times, Benetez had some poor seasons at Liverpool but still should have been stuck with over Roy, Man Utd would probably have been better keeping Mourinho.

To my mind supporters need to at least try and understand that Pochettino is allowed to have a poor season, it’s OK, you don’t have to enjoy it, but you don’t have to destroy him either. Anyone we replaced him with would likely also make mistakes and have poor spells. All the managers above, who people at the moment would love to get in have had similar moments and yet it's being overlooked.

Worse it's being overlooked so people can destroy one of the best managers we have ever had who have given us so much. Give Mauricio a bit more of your understanding if you can, because when this turns you will be glad you stood behind him.

Love you Poch.

I agree that Poch is allowed to have a poor season, but it has been made even worse by his stubborn dedication to a diamond and decisions to play players who are not committed to the club.

I am not a Poch out person, but I imagine that most of the 'Poch outers' would be more forgiving if he looked like he was learning from what is going wrong and adapting rather than just doing the same thing.

 

[Japhet]

It's possible to love Poch and everything he's done for the club, but also feel like there is a real need for both parties to part ways. We couldn't have had much better fixtures to turn things around than Brighton and Watford and we were lucky to come away with a single point. Both performances were terrible too. No need for blind loyalty to him while the situation just seems to get worse and worse, we can leave that stuff to Westminster.

Poch's decisions are getting more confusing by the day too. Surely now is the time to go back to basics and also use the younger and hungrier players. Yet he seems to constantly change formation and keeps playing the 'unsettled' players that are supposedly the problem. Must win home game and our most dangerous attacker (Son) at home is left out. Makes no sense.

If what @Trix says is correct the writing is on the wall. My concern is Levy will refuse to sack him for two reasons 1) the high compensation and 2) not wanting him to walk to Utd on a free. Tricky situation but it seems like dragging this on is only going to end one way, the same end result but with more damage done in the meantime.

If Poch goes to Utd and turns their fortunes around, the only thing that proves to me is what a selfish bunch of wankers our players have been for the past year. If he's as shit a manager as so many on here would have us believe we should be pushing him up the M1 as fast as we can. In the meantime, the prospect of Mourinho makes me want to puke. Say what you like about Poch but he's a decent bloke. Mourinho is pond life.

 

[McFlash]

I agree that Poch is allowed to have a poor season, but it has been made even worse by his stubborn dedication to a diamond and decisions to play players who are not committed to the club.

I am not a Poch out person, but I imagine that most of the 'Poch outers' would be more forgiving if he looked like he was learning from what is going wrong and adapting rather than just doing the same thing.

Yep, your last sentence is exactly why I've become a "Poch out-er".
For the life of me, I cannot see him turning this round but I would absolutely love him to prove me wrong.

 

[coys200]

People talk about Vertonghen and Alderweireld like they are 34 and 36 they are 32 and 30. They should be in their prime as CB. Earlier this year Vertonghen was destroying Dortmund as a LWB. So how do you explain their form dropping off the edge of a cliff other than they’ve downed tools. And if so wtf is Pochettino playing them over a £42m 23 yr old purchase who was excellent for us at 21 in 17/18.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

People talk about Vertonghen and Alderweireld like they are 34 and 36 they are 32 and 30. They should be in their prime as CB. Earlier this year Vertonghen was destroying Dortmund as a LWB. So how do you explain their form dropping off the edge of a cliff other than they’ve downed tools. And if so wtf is Pochettino playing them over a £42m 23 yr old purchase who was excellent for us at 21 in 17/18.

Lack of any screen in front of the poor fuckers.

Plus Alderweireld losing a yard since the end of last season, which is one thing I cant blame Poch for. Apart from not picking Sanchez in his place.