The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[PeeLee]

Actions speak louder than words.
No player is going to come out with quotes slating Poch, they let their performance do the talking, and also what new club would buy a player if they admit, “I am deliberately not playing to my potential, because I want the manager to be sacked”
Unattributed Tottenham sources (e.g. players agents) will though, like the article about the players being basically knackered

On the other hand, the BBC article linked to has Toby, Dele and Poch in positive mood.

 

[CheeseGromit]

Personal pride, they can all play at a higher level.

Aaron Ramsey put a shift in at Arsenal before he left for Juve so it's not against the realms of possibility that these players wouldn't do the same.

Also a new manager can invigorate them and get their hunger back.

The guys in question want out. Changing the manager does not change their mind You have to look at why they want out in the first place and then assess whether a change at the helm would work

It is my belief they have a bigger beef with the club and that is most likely money than they do with manager. That wont change

The are already in the shop window so their performance are under scrutiny

 

[Hakkz]

He’s not playing like he does atm.
Played excellent for England is the week and was pretty dreadful on Saturday and in the weeks before

That's what happens when you're part of a group that has lost faith in the one giving orders.

 

[McFlash]

Can’t just forget about the last 5 years work.

No, I completely agree and that's what's making this situation so painful.
I just cannot see Poch being able to turn this round though. He's still picking the players that aren't performing for him.

 

[sausage]

Money well spent then

Only when it's well spent, though.

They've been very lucky in recent years, for both their scouting and the fees they've received for players. Bournemouth seem to give them £20m for each every academy player they have

 

[TOLBINY]

Pretty pointless comparison really though.

Firstly, just over 100m of your assessment was spent this window just gone. Then there are the transfers we made prior to Klopp coming in which is another 107m.

If you want to do a real comparison look at the backing both have had since Klopp was appointed (October 2015). That makes it Klopp 392.38m spent, Poch 184.5m spent.

Now take into account the quality of player. They have spent more than 30m on a player seven times, three of which were in excess of 50m. Meanwhile only Sissoko and Sanchez cost us more than 30m.

We have bought 11 players in the same time that they have bought 12 but for half the money. The average cost of a Spurs player from that time period is 16.77m, for Liverpool it's 32.69m.

Simply put, Klopp has been backed from the moment he stepped through the door, Poch has had to work with vastly inferior players. Would you rather one Salah or a GKN and Janssen?? Allisson or Sissoko and Aurier??

You are right that our recruitment is piss poor, but Klopp has had vastly superior players to work with since he came in. Our only decent window came in Summer 2015 when we got Alderweireld and Son, two first XI players. Since then, only Wanyama has made a real mark on the first team with Sanchez, Moura, Aurier and Sissoko looking better as squad options.

I think you and others are missing one of the main points - Klopp has done what he's done with Liverpool with roughly the same amount of money in a shorter time.

 

[stevenurse]

Having a dig at the fans from Poch wasn't the greatest idea on Saturday. Maybe when the players start to look like they give a shit then maybe the fans who are paying the highest ticket prices in Europe will give a shit too.

Needless to say they go home with their hundreds of thousands regardless.

Poch is already on thin ice with the fans. He needs to wind his neck in, stop contradicting himself daily and get back to coaching a team to play properly.

 

[morris25]

So how long can it go on. What if we lose tomorrow, surely that's it.
Lose to Liverpool is understandable, but the game afterThat?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

1,000,000% spot on and it’s a combination of both, Liverpool have recruited better than us and klopp is a better manager than poch.

@PeeLee @tooey please do explain why you disagree and think that either we’ve recruited better than Liverpool and/or that poch is a better manager than klopp...

Id love to hear that argument from you guys lol

 

[Gilzeanking]

So how long can it go on. What if we lose tomorrow, surely that's it.

Ooooff My brain hurts....Isn't the match today , Tuesday

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think you and others are missing one of the main points - Klopp has done what he's done with Liverpool with roughly the same amount of money in a shorter time.

Agree and he’s had a system and way of playing that the players are moulded to and buy into and that is more effective than any tactics or consistent system we’ve used under poch.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Having a dig at the fans from Poch wasn't the greatest idea on Saturday. Maybe when the players start to look like they give a shit then maybe the fans who are paying the highest ticket prices in Europe will give a shit too.

Needless to say they go home with their hundreds of thousands regardless.

Poch is already on thin ice with the fans. He needs to wind his neck in, stop contradicting himself daily and get back to coaching a team to play properly.

F.
F.
S.

He didn't.

 

[nailsy]

After watching Harry Kane yesterday I’m convinced he’s one of the players who is almightedly pissed off with things. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him try as less as he did yesterday. He looked utterly irked.

@Trix has hinted at this a few times.

Since arriving at Tottenham Pochetino has spent £394.62M on players (list below – Source: TransferMarket)
Since arriving at Liverpool Klopp has spent £400.37M on players – not a lot different in spend – which suggests two things. Klopp / Liverpool recruit better than Poch / Tottenham and Klopp is able to get more out of his players than Poch.

Ben Davies
Federico Fazio
Dele Alli
Benjamin Stambouli
Michel Vorm
Eric Dier
DeAndre Yedlin
Heung-min Son
Toby Alderweireld
Clinton N'Jie
Kevin Wimmer
Kieran Trippier
Moussa Sissoko
Vincent Janssen
Victor Wanyama
Georges-Kevin N'Koudou
Pau López
Lucas Moura
Serge Aurier
Fernando Llorente
Juan Foyth
Paulo Gazzaniga
Tanguy Ndombélé
Ryan Sessegnon
Giovani Lo Celso
Jack Clarke

As others have mentioned it's not really a fair comparison. Klopp has bought 13 players at an average cost of £30M a man. Poch has bought 26 players at a cost of £15M a man - three of which haven't even made it into the team yet. Do you think that Poch is going for cheaper players because he wants to? Klopp has had a lot of success with the more expensive players that he's bought, but when you look at the sub £15M players that he bought, i.e the Poch price range players, he's been as hit and miss as Poch:

Shaqiri - €15M (bargain price because of relegation clause)
Robertson €9M - Great buy.
Grujic €7M - 8 Appearances so far. Currently on loan
Karius €6M - I don't need to say anything.
Klavan €5M - Was he any better than Fazio?

Would Klopp have been as successful if he had to rely on buying players from the same shop as Poch? Almost certainly not.

 

[DelBoyN17]

Sad to say but for me Poch’s time at our club is finished, what happens if we lose away at both Liverpool & Everton which let’s face it we probably will as we haven’t won away since January 2019, our record in the calendar year is ‘relegation form’ & we could well find ourselves languishing in and around the bottom half of the table with 11 games played, how many more poor results & more worryingly shocking performances have to happen before a change has to be made, take the champions league run out of it (which we didn’t win btw) we’ve gone backwards, guys the two worse teams in the league have come to WHL & played us off the park & we were lucky to even get a point out of a possible 6, please tell me where we are improving, I was gutted when Martin Jol left because I thought he was proper spurs & it will be the same for Poch, but I understand all things come to an end & that’s what’s happening here, those players need a new voice with different ideas & a fresh approach, sadly something I feel Poch can no longer bring to the table, the clock is ticking & it’s time for change, oh & just a reminder we got banged 7-2 at home & hammered 3-0 away to Brighton, buts it’s cool Poch will turn this around

 

[nasescoba1985]

Sad to say but for me Poch’s time at our club is finished, what happens if we lose away at both Liverpool & Everton which let’s face it we probably will as we haven’t won away since January 2019, our record in the calendar year is ‘relegation form’ & we could well find ourselves languishing in and around the bottom half of the table with 11 games played, how many more poor results & more worryingly shocking performances have to happen before a change has to be made, take the champions league run out of it (which we didn’t win btw) we’ve gone backwards, guys the two worse teams in the league have come to WHL & played us off the park & we were lucky to even get a point out of a possible 6, please tell me where we are improving, I was gutted when Martin Jol left because I thought he was proper spurs & it will be the same for Poch, but I understand all things come to an end & that’s what’s happening here, those players need a new voice with different ideas & a fresh approach, sadly something I feel Poch can no longer bring to the table, the clock is ticking & it’s time for change, oh & just a reminder we got banged 7-2 at home & hammered 3-0 away to Brighton, buts it’s cool Poch will turn this around

Mate, it shouldn’t be what if? Poch should of been sacked the moment we lost 7-2 to Bayern. That result along with the Colchester one was completely unacceptable, then we go and lose 3-0 to Brighton. How much more do you want ? The Watford game proved everything in that this team are not performing for the manager. We have had to endure this shit now for 6 months and I am sick of it. Fuck the CL final, we got incredibly lucky to get there and in the end we bottled it like we always do under poch anyway, so in all the CL final meant fuck all but disappointment. Time for a change at the top before it’s to late. No waiting around for a dicking by Liverpool, get rid of Pochettino and bring in a serial winner.

 

[nailsy]

I think you and others are missing one of the main points - Klopp has done what he's done with Liverpool with roughly the same amount of money in a shorter time.

How many times was Klopp asked to work on a net zero budget though? Could he have signed those same players on our wage structure? We were in for Mane at the same time as Liverpool. Apparently he chose them, because they paid higher wages. We ended up with N'koudou instead.

Our transfer strategy over the last five years has been very restrictive due to the stadium build. It's really not fair to judge Poch against others when they haven't had the same obstacles as him.

 

[Kiedis]

Finding it hard to trust the process at the moment.
Not liking the rewriting of history to make it up like what Poch has done for us isn't absolutely fantastic though.

But it's probably part of the parcel.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I genuinely don't think its as bad as you're all, and the agent agenda ITK's, are all making out.

Yeah, we're playing like ****s; And for a whole host of reasons which probably go all the way back to last summer. But lets not turn on the man who's put us in this position, yeh?

Now, let me don my full suit of armour ahead of the neg reps and angry responses.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Finding it hard to trust the process at the moment.
Not liking the rewriting of history to make it up like what Poch has done for us isn't absolutely fantastic though.

But it's probably part of the parcel.

Its pretty ridiculous tbh.

 

[Mr Pink]

I genuinely don't think its as bad as you're all, and the agent agenda ITK's, are all making out.

Yeah, we're playing like ****s; And for a whole host of reasons which probably go all the way back to last summer. But lets not turn on the man who's put us in this position, yeh?

Now, let me don my full suit of armour ahead of the neg reps and angry responses.

I'll always respect Poch for progressing us, every Spurs fan should.

I'm not turning on him at all, but I think his time is up.

It's not just results mate, although that's what it will come down to in the end, it's our performances.

Hand on heart, we've become so boring to watch its painful.

Poch has to take responsibility for that and he isn't really because it's been rinse and repeat for months.

Not about turning on him, it's the realisation that he isn't fixing the massive problems we've had on the pitch for months, and if anything we've got worse.