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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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dagraham

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Sep 20, 2005
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IMO we've seen enough to show that this isn't going to be fixed by Poch. It's not like this has been happening for 2 months, it's been like this since the turn of the year. The only things that papered over the cracks was one of the luckiest matches I've ever seen at the Etihad (coupled with Son's clinical finishing early on), Ajax's inability to put us to the sword, and some magic from Lucas (ironic that he refuses to play the man who most likely kept him in a job for this long). There's a large enough sample size, IMO, to show that this is only gonna get worse. Levy needs to act ASAP.

His use of Lucas baffles me actually. Only seems to play him against teams who park the bus, where he is always ineffective
 

PeeLee

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Oct 2, 2019
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I think our players need another voice to listen to, someone that they'll respect, get them in and the rest takes care of itself.
I've heard that trotted out on radio stations a great deal lately, but I think it simply asserts something about which hard evidence is absent. So they've got sick of hearing each others' voices, have they, our Spurs players? I don't think so. Bored silly with being cheered from the stands? Forever hearing 'Come on you Spurs' called out by thousands week after week and bored by it? I doubt it.
 

Shadydan

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Jul 7, 2012
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I've heard that trotted out on radio stations a great deal lately, but I think it simply asserts something about which hard evidence is absent. So they've got sick of hearing each others' voices, have they, our Spurs players? I don't think so. Bored silly with being cheered from the stands? Forever hearing 'Come on you Spurs' called out by thousands week after week and bored by it? I doubt it.

I was talking about the manager, it tends to happen when the same players are hearing the same messages, using the same tactics, using the same approach and they just get bored and stop listening to the coach. Poch has been there nearly 6 years which is a lifetime in football and has never changed the backroom staff and in the main has had the same players throughout his tenure, it was only a matter of time before they stopped listening.

The same thing happened with Klopp at Dortmund.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
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I was talking about the manager, it tends to happen when the same players are hearing the same messages, using the same tactics, using the same approach and they just get bored and stop listening to the coach. Poch has been there nearly 6 years which is a lifetime in football and has never changed the backroom staff and in the main has had the same players throughout his tenure, it was only a matter of time before they stopped listening.

The same thing happened with Klopp at Dortmund.

And especially when that same manager and coaching staffs methods have brought zero trophies. I’m not saying it’s all down to the manager, but it’s perfectly possible there may come a point where the players lose faith in how we are going about things.
 

Shadydan

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Jul 7, 2012
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And especially when that same manager and coaching staffs methods have brought zero trophies. I’m not saying it’s all down to the manager, but it’s perfectly possible there may come a point where the players lose faith in how we are going about things.

I'm actually convinced that a new voice in the dressing room, someone that the players will respect and want to impress will get much more out of them.
 

Ronwol196061

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Apr 9, 2018
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His use of Lucas baffles me actually. Only seems to play him against teams who park the bus, where he is always ineffective
It's an interesting one. Lucas maybe suited like many others to a certain range of style.Poch has definate tasks that he wants to do like inverting wingers to shoot at goal.
Lucas has shown he can hit shots and near goal he has been good.
So how does that fit in with the plan and the man?
 

PeeLee

Active Member
Oct 2, 2019
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I really would like to know does Pochettino want to manage our club for the foreseeable future, if he has made it clear to Levy that he does then I can't see him getting sacked anytime soon.
He's interviewed regularly, and what he has to say is one of the most frequent football stories in mass media. And the club website carries short interviews with him regularly. When yet again rumours were put round by recruiters that he was considering managing elsewhere, he didn't just deny such tales but he said recently that he'd be happy to manage and coach at Spurs for another five years or more. Mass media hates those comments from him because they puncture a football storyline they like to pump up whenever a prominent football club has a supposed managerial crisis.
 

Cochise

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Aug 8, 2019
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Since arriving at Tottenham Pochetino has spent £394.62M on players (list below – Source: TransferMarket)
Since arriving at Liverpool Klopp has spent £400.37M on players – not a lot different in spend – which suggests two things. Klopp / Liverpool recruit better than Poch / Tottenham and Klopp is able to get more out of his players than Poch.

Ben Davies
Federico Fazio
Dele Alli
Benjamin Stambouli
Michel Vorm
Eric Dier
DeAndre Yedlin
Heung-min Son
Toby Alderweireld
Clinton N'Jie
Kevin Wimmer
Kieran Trippier
Moussa Sissoko
Vincent Janssen
Victor Wanyama
Georges-Kevin N'Koudou
Pau López
Lucas Moura
Serge Aurier
Fernando Llorente
Juan Foyth
Paulo Gazzaniga
Tanguy Ndombélé
Ryan Sessegnon
Giovani Lo Celso
Jack Clarke

Pretty pointless comparison really though.

Firstly, just over 100m of your assessment was spent this window just gone. Then there are the transfers we made prior to Klopp coming in which is another 107m.

If you want to do a real comparison look at the backing both have had since Klopp was appointed (October 2015). That makes it Klopp 392.38m spent, Poch 184.5m spent.

Now take into account the quality of player. They have spent more than 30m on a player seven times, three of which were in excess of 50m. Meanwhile only Sissoko and Sanchez cost us more than 30m.

We have bought 11 players in the same time that they have bought 12 but for half the money. The average cost of a Spurs player from that time period is 16.77m, for Liverpool it's 32.69m.

Simply put, Klopp has been backed from the moment he stepped through the door, Poch has had to work with vastly inferior players. Would you rather one Salah or a GKN and Janssen?? Allisson or Sissoko and Aurier??

You are right that our recruitment is piss poor, but Klopp has had vastly superior players to work with since he came in. Our only decent window came in Summer 2015 when we got Alderweireld and Son, two first XI players. Since then, only Wanyama has made a real mark on the first team with Sanchez, Moura, Aurier and Sissoko looking better as squad options.
 

Trotter

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Jan 30, 2009
2,169
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Pretty pointless comparison really though.

Firstly, just over 100m of your assessment was spent this window just gone. Then there are the transfers we made prior to Klopp coming in which is another 107m.

If you want to do a real comparison look at the backing both have had since Klopp was appointed (October 2015). That makes it Klopp 392.38m spent, Poch 184.5m spent.

Now take into account the quality of player. They have spent more than 30m on a player seven times, three of which were in excess of 50m. Meanwhile only Sissoko and Sanchez cost us more than 30m.

We have bought 11 players in the same time that they have bought 12 but for half the money. The average cost of a Spurs player from that time period is 16.77m, for Liverpool it's 32.69m.

Simply put, Klopp has been backed from the moment he stepped through the door, Poch has had to work with vastly inferior players. Would you rather one Salah or a GKN and Janssen?? Allisson or Sissoko and Aurier??

You are right that our recruitment is piss poor, but Klopp has had vastly superior players to work with since he came in. Our only decent window came in Summer 2015 when we got Alderweireld and Son, two first XI players. Since then, only Wanyama has made a real mark on the first team with Sanchez, Moura, Aurier and Sissoko looking better as squad options.

And also the fact that to make the stat factual you have to include 9 players that have subsequently been sold and replaced, so are including their position twice, but don't have to in the case of Liverpool.
And obviously adding revenue received from sales has to be excluded also, as that would blow stat out of the water.
Totally agenda driven stat to try and diminish what Poch has done for us,
Yes, I think it is time that he goes, but to try and discredit him is childish twitter bollocks, oh wait that is where coys200 got this from in first place, a couple of weeks ago
 
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Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
I disagree. The right man could get this squad firing again, it's crammed with quality.

If we act in the next week, this season is not over, far from it imo.

why would Toby, Jan, Rose, and Eriksen start firing for another manager when they will be gone b the end of the season. if these players had 2-3 year contracts then the blame totally falls on the head of the manager.

the Eriksen situation is hurting us bad enough, but Rose is costing us points.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
why would Toby, Jan, Rose, and Eriksen start firing for another manager when they will be gone b the end of the season. if these players had 2-3 year contracts then the blame totally falls on the head of the manager.

the Eriksen situation is hurting us bad enough, but Rose is costing us points.

Personal pride, they can all play at a higher level.

Aaron Ramsey put a shift in at Arsenal before he left for Juve so it's not against the realms of possibility that these players wouldn't do the same.

Also a new manager can invigorate them and get their hunger back.
 

ostrov

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Jan 8, 2006
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1,053
On the one hand, we hear from Pochettino himself that squad is unsettled, then the media. On another hand we read that everyone is behind Pochettino.

Apart from Eriksen, I don't see a direct correlation between the end of contract and desire to play for the club but collective performance has clearly dropped in quality. Simply speaking there is no unity and common belief in the project for diff reasons for diff people. For me, the main source of the crack is Poch after CL final. He's lost his desire and hunger. He does not believe imho that he can repeat it with this team or take it further but has no courage to quit thus far.
 

Ben1

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Jun 22, 2015
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Don't know whats more concerning: that these players may be giving 100% for us and there are other issues (like the tactics) for our failure OR they aren't giving 100%, in which case, why are they being selected? Doesn't really look good on Poch either way.

Ultimately, I think the biggest lie, regarding the club, peddled out right now is that the quality isn't in the squad. That it needs 6-7 new faces. Yes, it may do once people leave, but right now this is a squad/manager with no excuses quality wise. 3rd/4th best squad in the league easily.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
On the one hand, we hear from Pochettino himself that squad is unsettled, then the media. On another hand we read that everyone is behind Pochettino.

Apart from Eriksen, I don't see a direct correlation between the end of contract and desire to play for the club but collective performance has clearly dropped in quality. Simply speaking there is no unity and common belief in the project for diff reasons for diff people. For me, the main source of the crack is Poch after CL final. He's lost his desire and hunger. He does not believe imho that he can repeat it with this team or take it further but has no courage to quit thus far.

Actions speak louder than words.
No player is going to come out with quotes slating Poch, they let their performance do the talking, and also what new club would buy a player if they admit, “I am deliberately not playing to my potential, because I want the manager to be sacked”
Unattributed Tottenham sources (e.g. players agents) will though, like the article about the players being basically knackered
 
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allatsea

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Aug 31, 2012
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16,054
I'm actually convinced that a new voice in the dressing room, someone that the players will respect and want to impress will get much more out of them.
I suspect the problem will be getting such a person to join us when better jobs such as Man United & Real Madrid are likely to be on offer shortly.
 
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