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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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dimiSpur

There's always next year...
Aug 9, 2008
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OK ,so let’s plod along all our lives winning absolutely nothing because supporters like yourself accept failure. The CL final means nothing to me anymore mate because Liverpool are the European champions. All that day does is remind me of how much of an unbelievable opportunity the club had to finally achieve something huge in what was the biggest game of all our lives, yet we limped over the line like a bunch of lost puppies. I have never criticised Poch, but if you can’t see there are serious problems at the club then you are in complete denial dude. 14 Prem losses in 2019 ( more than Bournemouth, Brighton and Watford ) how Is that acceptable? 1 league cup in 20 years under Levy’s leadership, how is that acceptable ? If anything, you are the one turning your nose up at winning a domestic trophy. What I would give for Spurs to win a domestic trophy this season and finally get the monkey off our backs. Winning trophies usually breeds success mate. We are not Wigan here, we are Spurs and in a complete different stratosphere to those clubs you mentioned. The game is all about glory, it’s in our motto ffs dude. Getting to the CL final and Fa cup final, but losing every single season is not overachieving, it’s failing mate. The quicker supporters like you accept this, the better.
Who said all our lives? Where did I say all our lives? We don't have billions of illegal oil money. We need to build gradually. We don't have the global fanbase Liverpool have, we need to build that gradually. That happens with CL finals and so on.

We get there gradually. Do you know what gradually means? It means sometimes having a step backwards before we take two forward, as we have done over the past 5 years.

Winning trophies breeds success does it? So Man Utd won the Europa League & the FA Cup with the same lot of players pretty much that are playing now. Has that bred success? Because from where I'm sitting, I reckon they'd kill to have our squad and manager.

Exactly, the game is about glory. Glory is a league title or a CL, not the fucking FA Cup. That's what this Club is building towards, that's the end goal.

Finally, where have I said we don't have problems? We have massive problems. Huge problems. I've said that all along this thread. The reasons cited for wanting Poch out are valid, I just don't agree with the conclusion of Poch out. What I'm arguing against is those of you going insane and saying we've underachieved under Poch. I won't have that.

Has he been stupid with his comments for a good 3-4 months? Yes.
Do I know what our favoured formation is? No.
Do we have a playing style we had under him from past years? No.
Have we been terrible for a good 9 months now? Yes.

Do I want Poch out? No! I don't think that's the solution. I think Poch is aware of the problems and will work towards solving them. And he has enough credit in the bank to afford him the time to try and sort it out. If he can't, then we can re-visit sacking him as an option! That's my point.

Now repeat that back to me, I want to make sure you understand.
 

m*****73

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2005
462
732
I just think that the love has gone... Throughout the squad and staff.

That final defeat has deeper ramifications than we'll admit.

Agreed.

However, I think it goes back even further to the previous summer with the failure to make any signings.

I think it signalled to both Poch and a number of players that it was going to be an uphill struggle to win anything at the club. That's the moment when Eriksen decided that he wouldn't be here when his current contract expired. Poch probably came to the same realisation too. In truth, they've both been dropping 'come and get me' messages to Real Madrid for the last 12mths and are equally disappointed that nothing has come of them.

We got to the CL final through mental toughness and determination. That's gone now - and I'm increasingly convinced that it's not coming back under this manager, nor with some of these players. Sure, there'll be little glimpses of 'the way it used to be' in certain moments, but I'm expecting this to be a lost season for the club - and our last one with Poch.

Sooner or later, Levy is going to need to make a decision. Perhaps he might think it best to let Poch work out the season, hoping that (a) we can still finish in the top 4 [we'll need another sub-par season from Arsenal and United - doubtful] and (b) both parties come to a mutual agreement to walk away in the summer. That way it doesn't look like the club fired Poch on the back of a run of poor results - and hopefully, there'll be a lot less animosity that way.

I'd be content with that if Levy was fully committed to making the hard decisions next season. Tear down the playing squad and rebuild it with a proven winning manager. A new project - just like the stadium.

Hugo, Verts, Toby, Rose, Dier, Lamela, Eriksen, Aurier, Wanyama.... and ANYONE else who doesn't buy into a 3yr plan to deliver real success (i.e. actually winning a significant trophy). No sacred cows. Just a manager and players who are fully committed to delivering on this new project.

Otherwise, I fear we are only committed to more seasons of being also-rans, albeit with a nicer stadium, happy with our lot and an empty trophy room....
 

jonnyrotten

SC Supporter
Aug 16, 2006
2,114
3,721
It seems like all the relative success of the past five years has brought are 1) greater demands 2) higher expectations 3) less patience from our fans.

What a thankless task Poch or any spurs manager has. We don't have a god-given right to win stuff. Being humble and objective in times like this is important. Look back on how far we've come in half a decade.
 

mattyspurs

It is what it is
Jan 31, 2005
15,280
9,893
I don't want him gone, and I also don't think Levy will pull the trigger quickly.

I can see there being a Spurs/Madrid standoff on who blinks first.

Zidane not being fired because they believe that we will fire Poch.

Levy not firing Poch (if results don't turn around) because he won't want to pay him off if he feels that he can get some compensation from Madrid.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
Bottom line as others have pointed out is our league form over a sizeable sample size of half a season is practically relegation form.

Levy is no idiot. He will be well aware of how poor our form is. By the looks of Poch last night, he looked almost defeated and under some significant pressure. Poch will not last till another month unless he starts getting results. The performances don’t matter in the short term for him, but he needs a winning run. If the form continues as it has been for 9 months, I’ll give him maybe three or four more games before he’s out. If he really has lost the dressing room, we may well lose on Saturday. We will be facing a buoyant Southampton side who just thrashed their local fierce rivals 4 nil away.

But whatever happens, Poch needs to start winning. He can talk about needing the January transfer window until he is blue in the face, but he won’t get the chance unless he dramatically reverses a decline which has been happening for around a year now.

If he hasn’t found answers by now, including with a whole preseason, I don’t see how he will find them in the next four weeks.

We may show fleeting signs of a recovery like Palace, but then the decline continues apace in the next game, we’ve seen this so many times in managers who end up getting sacked.

I also think the fans who believes integrating Sess and GLC into the side will solve our problems are completely delusional and unrealistic. This is far deeper than putting two new players in the side.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
Poch also needs to stop being a div with all this diamond bollocks now and play a proper 4-2-3-1 and concentrate on getting the most chances to Kane and put Son on left (or right) and have him running in from deep.
I think the diamond has a lot to do with Kane not being able to, or not willing to do as much running as he used to, hence trying to find a way of getting another forward up there. I don't know why we couln't try a more orthodox 433 though and get Son playing in the same areas as Mane or Sterling.
 

ljinko888

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2016
2,080
5,376
Pochettino is back in the scenario he was at this time in 2014. Back then he was our new manager who inherited a fairly old first team squad with players disinterested in the club. We were a very disharmonious team in the latter part of Villas-Boas's reign and throughout Sherwood's period. Our transfer recruitment blew up in our faces when we ended up having a squad full of "squad players" with a few potential gems being surrounded by bad apples.

The way he got to work was to tell those older players if they were not fit for his standards immediately that they would not be selected. In addition one of the benefits of being in the Europa League was we could give young players regular minutes, and as a team we had regular games to implement his style of play and ideas. You look around the league over the years and some really talented managers have come and gone because for all their ideas, all it takes is a few bad results to have their methods questioned. We were able to use the Europa League group games as a means to experiment basically. Naturally now we are in the Champions League the stakes are exponentially higher, the opponents bigger and better and we can't do that anymore.

For eighteen months we haven't seen new players come in the way of the transfer market meaning while everyone else upgraded positions or refreshed their squads, we stayed the same. We also haven't seen new players come in the way of the academy with the exception of Winks. I'm talking players who have become proper first team players. Players who are now considered starting quality players every week. Some players have played domestic cup games and the odd league game but that's not progression.

If Pochettino turns this around he will have done it by being ruthless again. But this time to the players he has responsibility for. His players. Some of them have served us well previously but either aren't up to it anymore and/or are just plain unreliable. It's a shame but players like Wanyama, Rose and Dier have missed too much football and their time on the sidelines have sapped a lot out of them. Lamela's presently in a mode where he looks to have got over his injury problems but he might break down again. Aurier's entire time at the club has been marred by an inability to stay fit and available for selection for a length of time. It's time for Pochettino to be ruthless with them and once again turn to the youth as alternatives.

It's also time for him to get ruthless with some of our bigger names. Kane does not have to play 90 minutes all the time. The Kane we have seen since his ankle injuries which he picks up every damn season is less mobile and less enjoyable to watch. Eriksen has been way too lethargic too although he also plays every game when fit. We hoped Lo Celso would provide new blood in that position but we have to wait another month for that. In the meantime allow Moura more starts with Son in the same team. Dele is coming off injury but he is in a crossroads where he has to make a mark positionally. If a change of formation is required then do it. Our best football has come in a 4-2-3-1 and to a lesser extent the three at the back. Why he's got this obsession with a diamond I don't know.

If Pochettino comes through this and turns it all around then you'd have to imagine we won't have a dark spell quite like this again. If he doesn't I suspect out of respect to the loyalty Pochettino gave to Levy during that period of limbo after leaving WHL then the manager will be allowed to call time on his own term. Which judging by his body language could be sooner than we think.
 

dimiSpur

There's always next year...
Aug 9, 2008
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6,750
To answer your question 6th and Carabao Cup winners without a doubt. Damn it I would take 10th and a cup every season.

Seriously graduallly build to something more, what is that meant to mean, you already say we won’t win the league , so what in your winning nothing world are we actually gradually building towards ?
Gradually building to catch Liverpool & City, obviously. I said we won't win the League this year. It's not very confusing. If winning the League Cup and finishing 10th every year floats your boat, good luck to you. I strongly disagree. I would rather have nights like the Ajax semi final every year rather than beating the likes of Birmingham on the road to Wembley. I bet you cannot name the last 3 winners of the Carabao Cup without Googling it. You know why? Because no one gives a fuck.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
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Gradually building to catch Liverpool & City, obviously. I said we won't win the League this year. It's not very confusing. If winning the League Cup and finishing 10th every year floats your boat, good luck to you. I strongly disagree. I would rather have nights like the Ajax semi final every year rather than beating the likes of Birmingham on the road to Wembley. I bet you cannot name the last 3 winners of the Carabao Cup without Googling it. You know why? Because no one gives a fuck.

I can, But I bet you cannot name where we finished in the League every season for last 10 or even further through this gradual building of Levy’s win nothing reign, which you seem to be happy to carry on ad-infinitum, but I am sure you can name every season in history we won a trophy.
Why, because trophies is what counts
 
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skiba

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
300
1,284
Reading the comments here, it’s sad, but understandable, to see how much the lack of silverware has affected the club over the past few years. We don’t have a divine right to win anything, and are certainly are a long way in terms of prestige and resources from winning the league or the CL, despite having come close to both under Poch.

That leaves the domestic cups as realistic targets for a club of our level. Are people really so bothered by our failure to win either of these that they’re willing to throw our best manager in a generation under the bus because of it? And replace him with Mourinho of all people, who most recently won two second rate cups with an unlimited budget at Utd?

I don't think it would make a blind bit of difference.

Mourinho won trophies with Man U, fans wanted him out. Wenger won FA cups with Arsenal, fans wanted him out. Sarri won Europa league with Chelsea, fans wanted him out. Hell, Ranieri won the league with fucking Leicester and the fans eventually turned.

Modern football is all about the here and now and with performances the way they have been these last 9 months, I have no doubt that Poch would be under the same level of pressure from fans even if he had picked up some trophies along the way.
 

thecook

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2009
5,576
10,965
I think the financial implications will decide a lot of this as we need CL to help with revenue etc for stadium funding.

and for this reason as much as Levy and Poch are mates, Levy will not hesitate in making the tough decision. We've had post from respected ITK on this
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
I don't see how we can change our performances drastically from one day to another - other than if something major happen within the squad.
Poch & the Players need to have an honest meeting, as do Levy&Poch. Do they wanna fight for Poch or not, and will he.
If they don't can get on the same line, I think Levy will know and action is required.

But you don't just change that kind of football from Tuesday to Saturday. Something big is needed other than just normal training.
Someone in the squad needs to step up and LACE into them. Im talking borderline fisticuffs type stuff. Then we need a very public throwing to the side of a few players, namely Eriksen
 

dimiSpur

There's always next year...
Aug 9, 2008
5,844
6,750
I can, But I bet you cannot name where we finished in the League every season for last 10 or even further through this gradual building of Levy’s reign, which you seem to be happy to carry on ad-infinitum, but I am sure you can name every season in history we won a trophy.
Why, because trophies is what counts
Is that so? So I take it you don't remember the Crouchy goal at City when we qualified for the CL for the first time? Or the joy when we finally finished above Arsenal after 25+ years?

I can't name our last 10 league finishes. I can name our league finishes under Poch though, which is the gradual project I'm talking about.

Trophies are vital. But they have to supplement league positions. Not replace them. Not many would be happy with us finishing 10th and winning the poxy League Cup every year. I would be prepared to bet you on that with a poll.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
Which is making the ITK about losing the dressing room/players questioning his constantly changing tactics seem quite near the truth imo.
A lot of posters scoffed at it.
Can you tell what posters scoffed at it please mate.
 

Stamford

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
4,121
19,830
It seems like all the relative success of the past five years has brought are 1) greater demands 2) higher expectations 3) less patience from our fans.

What a thankless task Poch or any spurs manager has. We don't have a god-given right to win stuff. Being humble and objective in times like this is important. Look back on how far we've come in half a decade.

No one is saying we deserve to win a trophy, there are limited trophies. However we have an expensively assembled squad with the best striker in world football and the results and performances are not good enough.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
Gradually building to catch Liverpool & City, obviously. I said we won't win the League this year. It's not very confusing. If winning the League Cup and finishing 10th every year floats your boat, good luck to you. I strongly disagree. I would rather have nights like the Ajax semi final every year rather than beating the likes of Birmingham on the road to Wembley. I bet you cannot name the last 3 winners of the Carabao Cup without Googling it. You know why? Because no one gives a fuck.


Why aren’t we challenging city and Liverpool? Or at least third best. We have an experienced talented squad after all. Our first 11 is comparable with the top two on paper. Poch has been here over five years. Why do so many players want to leave yet look completely unmotivated?

Yet here we are, going into a new season where everything looked really quite strong for us on paper, we even managed to keep Eriksen whilst signings GLC yet now some fans on here are making excuses for Poch and are telling us it’s a transitional year.

I can tell you I find it highly unlikely Levy believes this season is a season of rebuilding and transition. On paper we had a squad all set to challenge yet we look a mess. You have to say it looks like Poch has created a large amount of this mess himself.

ITKs have hinted that Poch and Toby had problems. Poch dropped eriksen and Verts too. Eriksen looks completely detached from the club. Surely that’s Pochs job to keep players motivated even in their final season? Rose was left behind to find a new club but is still here. Aurier wanted to leave? Seems a hell of a lot of players are not wanting to play under Poch anymore. Yet apparently Poch is not the problem?
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,646
93,315
Can you tell what posters scoffed at it please mate.
Cant remember off hand but there were quite a few who dismissed it out of hand.
It was in the thread that Dougal locked...think it was called 'Beginning of the end', the fella who started it looks like a visionary now lol.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
Is that so? So I take it you don't remember the Crouchy goal at City when we qualified for the CL for the first time? Or the joy when we finally finished above Arsenal after 25+ years?

I can't name our last 10 league finishes. I can name our league finishes under Poch though, which is the gradual project I'm talking about.

Trophies are vital. But they have to supplement league positions. Not replace them. Not many would be happy with us finishing 10th and winning the poxy League Cup every year. I would be prepared to bet you on that with a poll.

Yes I was there for the Crouch goal, and Mouras hat trick.

But I was also there for the Ricky Villa goal, the Tony Parks save, Woodgate in extra time, Chivers at Wolves and countless other occasions where the good memories actually led to us winning a trophy, unlike the ones you mentioned which didn’t, and remember them more fondly for that reason, even though the ones you mentioned were more recent.
 
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DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
We’ve also been very unlucky that Wanyama has deteriorated as he has, as he was a massive factor in our best league season finishing 2nd.

But then on other hand surely it should have been noticed he’s knackered and a like for like defensive midfielder bought in to replace him?

Also, another real shame is Amos hasn’t been available due to injury issues as he would have been ideal alongside Skipp last night rather than Wanyama.
 
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