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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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Phomesy

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Aug 20, 2013
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:ROFLMAO: As I just said, classic revisionism.

We began to play through their press after 20 mins or so Dele (x4), Eriksen, Sissoko, Trippier were all guilty of misplacing their final balls, this was pretty much the pattern of the match, Son had 2 1on1's with Van Dijk...These chances aren't recorded in stats.

So to say that Liverpool controlled the match superbly is nonsense, we broke their press on a number of occasions and better decision making would have seen us score, as I said all they did was soak and play on the counter and it's not as if the chances they were creating were measured chances - they were speculative.

I suggest you watch the match again: http://fullmatchsports.com/tottenham-hotspur-vs-liverpool-highlights-full-match-ucl-final-2019

Yep this was pretty evident when I could finally bring myself to re-watch the game.

What was also obvious was that, rightly or wrongly, we played conservatively after going a goal behind because we simply couldn't afford to go two down. The penalty changed the entire game and turned it into a scrap by both teams.

The idea that we "weren't up for it" or that Liverpool "controlled the game" is total and utter bollocks. Would we have seen a different (better) Liverpool if they had'n't got that penalty? Perhaps - maybe even probably. But the game was an absolute balance until the last 15 minutes when we really had to go for it.

And whether you think the Sissoko penalty was right or not it's indisputable it changed the nature of the game and made it completely different to all recent Spurs/Liverpool contests in recent memory.
 

RichieS

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2004
11,916
16,436
Yep this was pretty evident when I could finally bring myself to re-watch the game.

What was also obvious was that, rightly or wrongly, we played conservatively after going a goal behind because we simply couldn't afford to go two down. The penalty changed the entire game and turned it into a scrap by both teams.

The idea that we "weren't up for it" or that Liverpool "controlled the game" is total and utter bollocks. Would we have seen a different (better) Liverpool if they had'n't got that penalty? Perhaps - maybe even probably. But the game was an absolute balance until the last 15 minutes when we really had to go for it.

And whether you think the Sissoko penalty was right or not it's indisputable it changed the nature of the game and made it completely different to all recent Spurs/Liverpool contests in recent memory.
"Perhaps" at best. My memory of the game is that they were clearly extremely nervous and could barely pass to one another for most of it (even van Dijk shanked a couple straight out of play) but, unfortunately, we never really got going either.
 

Phomesy

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Aug 20, 2013
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"Perhaps" at best. My memory of the game is that they were clearly extremely nervous and could barely pass to one another for most of it (even van Dijk shanked a couple straight out of play) but, unfortunately, we never really got going either.

Yeah if anything they were more nervy than us. When you rewatch it you really do see what utter bollocks is spoken about this game and our mentality in it. It was dour slog by two teams who both were forced to change gameplans after the first minute.
 

Phomesy

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Aug 20, 2013
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I think the point re treating it as a one off is fair though. It felt like as a club we seemed happy just to be apart of it.

I just don't see any evidence for this at all. Again - the penalty changes everything. Not just for us but for Liverpool too. We can't afford to go two down and they can't afford to give up an (unearned) lead. Both teams played completely differently to how they intended at the first whistle.
 

Shadydan

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Jul 7, 2012
38,247
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Yep this was pretty evident when I could finally bring myself to re-watch the game.

What was also obvious was that, rightly or wrongly, we played conservatively after going a goal behind because we simply couldn't afford to go two down. The penalty changed the entire game and turned it into a scrap by both teams.

The idea that we "weren't up for it" or that Liverpool "controlled the game" is total and utter bollocks. Would we have seen a different (better) Liverpool if they had'n't got that penalty? Perhaps - maybe even probably. But the game was an absolute balance until the last 15 minutes when we really had to go for it.

And whether you think the Sissoko penalty was right or not it's indisputable it changed the nature of the game and made it completely different to all recent Spurs/Liverpool contests in recent memory.

Mate I literally posted a link to the entire match, it's all in there if people want to watch it :D

I understand why some won't want to sit though it but that particular narrative is just utter guff.
 

Stamford

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Sep 15, 2015
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I just don't see any evidence for this at all. Again - the penalty changes everything. Not just for us but for Liverpool too. We can't afford to go two down and they can't afford to give up an (unearned) lead. Both teams played completely differently to how they intended at the first whistle.

Sorry I didn't mean the game. I meant a general atmosphere both amongst the team and fans. Maybe its just me but definitely got that vibe.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
You think their fullbacks are worth 20 points difference in the table? I'm not so sure. I agree they have top FBs, but for me the biggest difference is in the manager's. Unfortunately Klopp is doing the type of job some of us thought Poch would do at Spurs but it never materialised.
I'm sorry, but when Poch gets to break the world records for goakeepers, defenders, etc, etc, then you can make this judgement. The difference between the two clubs is that they have simply been run in the last few years with the aim of winning the PL or CL. Their wages, their recruitment, the complete backing of the manager, everything has been on point, and had it not been for an extraordinary City run-in they probably would have been sitting on top of the world with a unique double.
 

Phomesy

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Aug 20, 2013
9,188
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Sorry I didn't mean the game. I meant a general atmosphere both amongst the team and fans. Maybe its just me but definitely got that vibe.

Amongst the fans I think you're probably right and not sure that's not to be expected. It was a pretty big and unexpected deal forus!

As for the team - I think they were nervous as hell but Liverpool were even worse - they couldn't afford to lose again. Not to us.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,348
87,808
I think the point re treating it as a one off is fair though. It felt like as a club we seemed happy just to be apart of it.
Again, I contest this. The fans outside the Lane, the fans in Madrid, the tears and passion from the players and the coaches. We were there to win. That balls up after 30 seconds knocked the absolute stuffing out of us, and compromised everything that had come over the previous 3 weeks. I still say we were the better team on the night.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
Again, I contest this. The fans outside the Lane, the fans in Madrid, the tears and passion from the players and the coaches. We were there to win. That balls up after 30 seconds knocked the absolute stuffing out of us, and compromised everything that had come over the previous 3 weeks. I still say we were the better team on the night.
I thought the narrative that we didn't turn up was harsh. After that early blow we could have imploded, but we took charge of the match. Liverpool were very cute, though, and just sat back into a very compact shape. It didn't help that Kane was so short of fitness and Eriksen and Alli couldn't really get into the match.
 

Stamford

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Sep 15, 2015
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Again, I contest this. The fans outside the Lane, the fans in Madrid, the tears and passion from the players and the coaches. We were there to win. That balls up after 30 seconds knocked the absolute stuffing out of us, and compromised everything that had come over the previous 3 weeks. I still say we were the better team on the night.

Fair points
 

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
72,169
The Poch-Out 11 looks like it's having some dressing room unrest itself
@Gassin's finest out. He call the shots with this clusterfuck of a team.

Everyone knows @Archibald&Crooks elephantine penis means wherever he’s on the pitch, he’s always offside. Yet the gaffer insists on playing him, every game. My modest todge, and nimble feet makes me the ideal replacement but no, I’m sent to Rushden and Diamondformations because of my so called insolence
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,348
87,808
@Gassin's finest out. He call the shots with this clusterfuck of a team.

Everyone knows @Archibald&Crooks elephantine penis means wherever he’s on the pitch, he’s always offside. Yet the gaffer insists on playing him, every game. My modest todge, and nimble feet makes me the ideal replacement but no, I’m sent to Rushden and Diamondformations because of my so called insolence
Kid, you're this close to a stint with Stenhousemuir as their toilet cleaner...
 

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
72,169
Kid, you're this close to a stint with Stenhousemuir as their toilet cleaner...
C142D2BE-4156-48E7-BD13-ABB31B7C6700.gif
 

Typical Spurs

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Feb 10, 2016
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4,620
There is so much more to it than this. They may be weaker - time will tell - but factor in the net spend since Poch has been in charge and his achievements are all the more impressive.

As you say it is all about opinions and expectations, and regarding the former I would consider another top 4 finish as us once again having punched above our weight.

See, I don't quite agree.

Our wage bill has been, and still is, massively lower than the other top 5 clubs. Our net spend is also ridiculously low.

But, this is where I think we are lulled into this sense that we've over achieved. Based on finances alone in wages and net spend, have we over achieved compared to the other top 5 clubs? Yes. It's Levy who's played a blinder there.

However, nobody can tell me with the squad we've had, particularly the first 11, that we have over achieved. Over the last 4-5 years, has our first 11 been worse than 4 other teams in the prem? Not for me. We should've been getting top 4 IMO.

I said it the other day, Poch has had the best full backs in the league at the time in Rose and Walker. The best CB pairing in Jan and Toby. The best CF in world football. Backed up by Dembele, Son, Eriksen (when he actually played well), Dele (when he actually played well).

So let's not pretend we haven't had the players in Poch's time and have somehow miraculously achieved top 4 finishes with a poor side.
 
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DogsOfWar

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2005
2,292
3,603
See, I don't quite agree.

Our wage bill has been, and still is, massively lower than the other top 5 clubs. Our net spend is also ridiculously low.

But, this is where I think we are lulled into this sense that we've over achieved. Based on finances alone in wages and net spend, have we over achieved compared to the other top 5 clubs? Yes. It's Levy who's played a blinder there.

However, nobody can tell me with the squad we've had, particularly the first 11, that we have over achieved. Over the last 4-5 years, has our first 11 been worse than 4 other teams in the prem? Not for me. We should've been getting top 4 IMO.

I said it the other day, Poch has had the best full backs in the league at the time in Rose and Walker. The best CB pairing in Jan and Toby. The best CF in world football. Backed up by Dembele, Son, Eriksen (when he actually played well), Dele (when he actually played well).

So let's not pretend we haven't had the players in Poch's time and have somehow miraculously achieved top 4 finishes with a poor side.

I think it could even be argued we've slightly underachieved in the league.
I believe most people would agree that we should have come 2nd to Leicester and 3rd last season.

I'm not advocating Poch out but there needs to be a sense of perspective.
We currently have the third best squad so we should expect third.
However, before the Leicester game we were third and are only 3 points off that after only seven games so I don't quite understand the panic to get rid of Poch.
If we're mid-table after 19 then fair enough but I suspect once Ndombele is fully up to speed and Lo Celso/Sess are available we'll see an upward trend and start to pull away a bit.
 
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