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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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IamSpurtacus

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2019
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Something that's been overlooked is the role of the academy (or lack of...)

For years, the media - and club, including Poch - has espoused its value. In an ideal world, Poch would have been able to drop uncommitted players like Toby and brought in younger players, yet aside from Winks and Kane, not a single player could be considered premier league ready or Top 4 grade. Those players may not work out long term but at least would provide a short term boost and bridge before investment could be made

Compare that to United, Arsenal, Liverpool or more pertinently Chelsea, who have compensated for their transfer ban by bringing in a number of young players who have hit the ground running.

When I look at the physical maturity of Mount, and Hudson Odoi, LRC, Trent Alexander Arnold, and compare them to our players they are worlds apart.

Look at the talent Chelsea let go because of their short termism and compare it to ours. I can't think of a single academy player we've released who has gone on to be anywhere near the level of de Bruyne or Salah. KWP is never going to make the grade - they're now talking about a loan. CCV will never make the grade. Skipp looks technically accomplished, and Parrott has incredible potential but the cupboard is bare and even at 18 - 19 years of age they are miles behind the Chelsea crop in terms of readiness

The question has to be asked - for all the talk about the academy, why has it so failed to produce sufficient players of the requisite standard to provide an alternative (even in just the short term) to players who don't want to be there and are no longer hungry?
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
My biggest issue with Pochettino is what I see present day in the Spurs team. Looking back on his best XI, which was probably Lloris, Walker, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Dembele, Wanyama, Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane, only 4 were signed by Poch, the other 7 were already at the club.

My issue is, has he been a good manager or did he just get a little bit lucky? I'm pretty sure it's not luck but when we look at the best team during his tenure, 6 years in and the fact that 7 of those guys were not identified nor have they been sufficiently replaced to date when required does come as a concern.

He's had over £400m to spend on incomings if you consider the Lo Celso deal to be a permanent one, does anyone really see £400m worth of improvements in the team at present? That would be my biggest concern to date, he hasn't proved he can do it with something regarded as genuinely his team.

He wanted players like Berahino, Schneiderlin etc and turned down Maddison for peanuts. He wasn't interested in Lo Celso for £20m but was a year later at £50m etc. He hasn't exactly got a top drawer record when it comes to wise investments so it comes as no surprise to me that when the old guard start to age, the team looks a little frail.

This.

Even during our very successful period playing good football I was a little worried about Poch’s recruitment.

Also this whole rebuilding in January thing (which I’ll believe when I see as we rarely do massive business in January lol) is a little annoying as surely Poch should have identified this in the summer and ensured we had at least one new centre back, a left back, a RIGHT BACK! (??) and a defensive midfielder.

Yeah we got Sessegnon but would be wary of just throwing him into left back as he is still relatively inexperienced in that area.
 
D

Deleted member 27995

Something that's been overlooked is the role of the academy (or lack of...)

For years, the media - and club, including Poch - has espoused its value. In an ideal world, Poch would have been able to drop uncommitted players like Toby and brought in younger players, yet aside from Winks and Kane, not a single player could be considered premier league ready or Top 4 grade. Those players may not work out long term but at least would provide a short term boost and bridge before investment could be made

Compare that to United, Arsenal, Liverpool or more pertinently Chelsea, who have compensated for their transfer ban by bringing in a number of young players who have hit the ground running.

When I look at the physical maturity of Mount, and Hudson Odoi, LRC, Trent Alexander Arnold, and compare them to our players they are worlds apart.

Look at the talent Chelsea let go because of their short termism and compare it to ours. I can't think of a single academy player we've released who has gone on to be anywhere near the level of de Bruyne or Salah. KWP is never going to make the grade - they're now talking about a loan. CCV will never make the grade. Skipp looks technically accomplished, and Parrott has incredible potential but the cupboard is bare and even at 18 - 19 years of age they are miles behind the Chelsea crop in terms of readiness

The question has to be asked - for all the talk about the academy, why has it so failed to produce sufficient players of the requisite standard to provide an alternative (even in just the short term) to players who don't want to be there and are no longer hungry?
I'd put this question to those who post quite regularly in the youth team(s) section in this forum. I've read plenty and been educated via many posters in there through their views and with what (might) be going on with out youth.
 

TEESSIDE1

Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
Jul 3, 2006
15,089
18,780
Something that's been overlooked is the role of the academy (or lack of...)

For years, the media - and club, including Poch - has espoused its value. In an ideal world, Poch would have been able to drop uncommitted players like Toby and brought in younger players, yet aside from Winks and Kane, not a single player could be considered premier league ready or Top 4 grade. Those players may not work out long term but at least would provide a short term boost and bridge before investment could be made

Compare that to United, Arsenal, Liverpool or more pertinently Chelsea, who have compensated for their transfer ban by bringing in a number of young players who have hit the ground running.

When I look at the physical maturity of Mount, and Hudson Odoi, LRC, Trent Alexander Arnold, and compare them to our players they are worlds apart.

Look at the talent Chelsea let go because of their short termism and compare it to ours. I can't think of a single academy player we've released who has gone on to be anywhere near the level of de Bruyne or Salah. KWP is never going to make the grade - they're now talking about a loan. CCV will never make the grade. Skipp looks technically accomplished, and Parrott has incredible potential but the cupboard is bare and even at 18 - 19 years of age they are miles behind the Chelsea crop in terms of readiness

The question has to be asked - for all the talk about the academy, why has it so failed to produce sufficient players of the requisite standard to provide an alternative (even in just the short term) to players who don't want to be there and are no longer hungry?

Something I’ve noticed with our academy the last couple of years is the club agreeing to multiple loans only for the players to barely feature if at all. Over the years we’ve sent youngsters out on loan and they’ve developed their game eg Rose and Walker. Whereas our most recent talents in Onomah, Edwards and now Clarke have struggled to make the bench never mind starting. Why are we agreeing to loans when they’re not going to feature? The Clarke loan is bizarre, hot talent last season, condition of us signing him... yet frozen out this season. I know we can’t make a team play them but surely they would be better off developing in and around our own academy/1st team if their temporary clubs have no intention of using them.
 

jondy1

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2011
1,069
1,691
All joking aside Poch hasn’t done nearly enough with all the talent he has had at his disposal and can only see things getting worse unless he is sacked. This post from a utd forum is spot on and worth a read
27FE579F-C5FA-4C13-9736-FAA3E21D056B.png
 

Cornpattbuck

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,873
15,942
Something that's been overlooked is the role of the academy (or lack of...)

For years, the media - and club, including Poch - has espoused its value. In an ideal world, Poch would have been able to drop uncommitted players like Toby and brought in younger players, yet aside from Winks and Kane, not a single player could be considered premier league ready or Top 4 grade. Those players may not work out long term but at least would provide a short term boost and bridge before investment could be made

Compare that to United, Arsenal, Liverpool or more pertinently Chelsea, who have compensated for their transfer ban by bringing in a number of young players who have hit the ground running.

When I look at the physical maturity of Mount, and Hudson Odoi, LRC, Trent Alexander Arnold, and compare them to our players they are worlds apart.

Look at the talent Chelsea let go because of their short termism and compare it to ours. I can't think of a single academy player we've released who has gone on to be anywhere near the level of de Bruyne or Salah. KWP is never going to make the grade - they're now talking about a loan. CCV will never make the grade. Skipp looks technically accomplished, and Parrott has incredible potential but the cupboard is bare and even at 18 - 19 years of age they are miles behind the Chelsea crop in terms of readiness

The question has to be asked - for all the talk about the academy, why has it so failed to produce sufficient players of the requisite standard to provide an alternative (even in just the short term) to players who don't want to be there and are no longer hungry?

You were doing so well until you mentioned De Bruyne and Salah, who weren't even remotely Chelsea youth players...

Your overall point isn't massively off though but then that's been argued back and forth on the Youth Thread for ages.

There seems to be a strange disconnect through the club at the moment.
 

1882andallthat

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2009
2,821
4,157
If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle
You do have a point, which is why I qualified what I was saying by saying that I'm optimistic in thinking that it's not going to happen, but what I have suggested could happen is not as far fetched as it might sound, as a lot can happen in football in a week. Let's take the last week of ours before the international break. I know we were well under par but who in their right mind would have thought we would lose 7-2 at home and follow it up with a 3-0 loss away to Brighton thus losing on aggregate 10-2 in a week !! Not even the most doom mongering of doom merchants or antagonistic AFTV followers or Kumb members could have come up with a nightmare scenario like that.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
All joking aside Poch hasn’t done nearly enough with all the talent he has had at his disposal and can only see things getting worse unless he is sacked. This post from a utd forum is spot on and worth a read View attachment 56825

Such hyperbole from you and this guy. Such a basic appraisal of his time at us it's hilarious.

Is there a team that has finished in the top 4 more consistently than us in the last 5 years? How is that not a great achievement for any manager considering how hard it is to manage an entire season of football with the number of games we have been racking up every year?

Our defense might be shaky as shit now but we conceded 26 goals in the prem in 2016/17. Does he now not get credit for that. Must have been Kane.

I for one am sick of people re-writing our recent history, especially Spurs fans.

Go and watch some highlights from the last 5 seasons and remind yourself of some of the football we have played.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
All joking aside Poch hasn’t done nearly enough with all the talent he has had at his disposal and can only see things getting worse unless he is sacked. This post from a utd forum is spot on and worth a read View attachment 56825

I do wonder where we would have been today if not for Kane. Considering our record of buying strikers recently...
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,387
34,059
You do have a point, which is why I qualified what I was saying by saying that I'm optimistic in thinking that it's not going to happen, but what I have suggested could happen is not as far fetched as it might sound, as a lot can happen in football in a week. Let's take the last week of ours before the international break. I know we were well under par but who in their right mind would have thought we would lose 7-2 at home and follow it up with a 3-0 loss away to Brighton thus losing on aggregate 10-2 in a week !! Not even the most doom mongering of doom merchants or antagonistic AFTV followers or Kumb members could have come up with a nightmare scenario like that.

I am hoping the Brighton result was just shock from the Bayern game.

We played very well 1st half against Bayern and 2nd half every time they shot they scored, it was a freak result
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,679
104,956
I am hoping the Brighton result was just shock from the Bayern game.

We played very well 1st half against Bayern and 2nd half every time they shot they scored, it was a freak result

We regularly concede too many shots on goal every match. It's an extra concern now without Lloris there to save them.
 

Stamford

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
4,121
19,829
I am hoping the Brighton result was just shock from the Bayern game.

We played very well 1st half against Bayern and 2nd half every time they shot they scored, it was a freak result

I honestly don't think you can write that off as a freak result given the rest of the results recently
 

TEESSIDE1

Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
Jul 3, 2006
15,089
18,780
I am hoping the Brighton result was just shock from the Bayern game.

We played very well 1st half against Bayern and 2nd half every time they shot they scored, it was a freak result

2nd half our midfield and defence was like Bulgaria’s, non existent... therefore it wasn’t a freak result in terms of every shot = a goal... it was due to our players both burning out and throwing in the towel. We then apparently had clear to air talks prior to the Brighton game yet we produced an even worse performance than we did against Bayern.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
My biggest issue with Pochettino is what I see present day in the Spurs team. Looking back on his best XI, which was probably Lloris, Walker, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Dembele, Wanyama, Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane, only 4 were signed by Poch, the other 7 were already at the club.

My issue is, has he been a good manager or did he just get a little bit lucky? I'm pretty sure it's not luck but when we look at the best team during his tenure, 6 years in and the fact that 7 of those guys were not identified nor have they been sufficiently replaced to date when required does come as a concern.

He's had over £400m to spend on incomings if you consider the Lo Celso deal to be a permanent one, does anyone really see £400m worth of improvements in the team at present? That would be my biggest concern to date, he hasn't proved he can do it with something regarded as genuinely his team.

He wanted players like Berahino, Schneiderlin etc and turned down Maddison for peanuts. He wasn't interested in Lo Celso for £20m but was a year later at £50m etc. He hasn't exactly got a top drawer record when it comes to wise investments so it comes as no surprise to me that when the old guard start to age, the team looks a little frail.

our best season when we finished 2nd undefeated at home was a 3-4-2-1 (bolded that signed under Poch)

Lloris
Toby-Dier-Jan
Walker-Wanyama-Dembele-Davies (23)/Rose (18)
Eriksen - Alli
Kane

we used Son as either sub, or in place of Kane when injured or shoehorned in up front with Eriksen or Alli deeper when Dembele was rotated.

getting very tiring in putting Rose up as the main when Davies played 5 more matches and was the only LB for our great run at the end due to Rose being injured in the January.

edit: if including Lo Celso as a permanent, then the 100+ mil spent this summer 2 of them haven't really featured, Dier, Wanyama and Alli have helped improve us. He never turned down Maddison, Maddison turned us down
 
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IamSpurtacus

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2019
1,487
7,011
You were doing so well until you mentioned De Bruyne and Salah, who weren't even remotely Chelsea youth players...

Your overall point isn't massively off though but then that's been argued back and forth on the Youth Thread for ages.

There seems to be a strange disconnect through the club at the moment.

Fair re Salah and KDB - i'm not a youth expert and they seem (after checking) more like late signings at U21/ 23 level, but the point still stands - young players who are now world class

Whether truly "homegrown" (like Mount) or purchased as a prospect later, our record on that front hasn't been good at all recently

Hadn't seen the youth thread before (I'm pretty new here)
 

IamSpurtacus

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2019
1,487
7,011
I am hoping the Brighton result was just shock from the Bayern game.

Can't remember the exact stat, but we're the third worst in terms of shots allowed (or not far off)

our pressing since Jan last year has been shite, our defence a liability (there's always a calamity there somewhere, not just from Hugo) - i fear we're showing our true form this season that was masked by the CL final and Top 4 finish
 

1882andallthat

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2009
2,821
4,157
I am hoping the Brighton result was just shock from the Bayern game.

We played very well 1st half against Bayern and 2nd half every time they shot they scored, it was a freak result
I too am hoping that you are right, yes you are correct in stating that we were the better side against Bayern for the first 35 minutes, but our workrate dropped considerably after that and they clearly took over and we were vulnerable from the last 15 mins of that first half and for most of that second half.
Fingers crossed that we can turn this round.
 

SugarRay

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2011
7,984
11,110
Something that's been overlooked is the role of the academy (or lack of...)

For years, the media - and club, including Poch - has espoused its value. In an ideal world, Poch would have been able to drop uncommitted players like Toby and brought in younger players, yet aside from Winks and Kane, not a single player could be considered premier league ready or Top 4 grade. Those players may not work out long term but at least would provide a short term boost and bridge before investment could be made

Compare that to United, Arsenal, Liverpool or more pertinently Chelsea, who have compensated for their transfer ban by bringing in a number of young players who have hit the ground running.

When I look at the physical maturity of Mount, and Hudson Odoi, LRC, Trent Alexander Arnold, and compare them to our players they are worlds apart.

Look at the talent Chelsea let go because of their short termism and compare it to ours. I can't think of a single academy player we've released who has gone on to be anywhere near the level of de Bruyne or Salah. KWP is never going to make the grade - they're now talking about a loan. CCV will never make the grade. Skipp looks technically accomplished, and Parrott has incredible potential but the cupboard is bare and even at 18 - 19 years of age they are miles behind the Chelsea crop in terms of readiness

The question has to be asked - for all the talk about the academy, why has it so failed to produce sufficient players of the requisite standard to provide an alternative (even in just the short term) to players who don't want to be there and are no longer hungry?

Chelsea have spent an absolute fortune on their youth set up and it seemingly is only starting to provide a proper return now.
Having said that, I don’t think Abraham, Mount, RLC, the Welsh centre half with the fro and co will be good enough for where they want to be in the future. They’ll all make decent prem players but not elite. Their best talent by a mile is Hudson-Odoi.

We need to improve the scouting undoubtedly. We used to sign highly sought after youngsters, what’s happened to that?
 
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