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The England Thread

Spurrific

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
13,501
57,356
Oh look, sure, we didn't have the very toughest route to the semis. And I'm not suggesting that as a consequence of getting there he should have a job for life, but there are a number of things that can go wrong en route, and have done to England in the past. I think this is the point where the benefit of the doubt ends though. We haven't kicked on and seem to be drifting. There have been a number of off-field issues that look to be creeping on-field. If I were the FA I'd be wanting to know what the vision is from here. How do we get from losing 0-1 at home to Denmark to winning the Euro's next year, because right now, I can't see it.

We were basically given a free ride to the semis and still repeatedly struggled. There is no evidence to suggest Southgate is a capable manager.
 

PCozzie

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
4,100
19,113
We were basically given a free ride to the semis and still repeatedly struggled. There is no evidence to suggest Southgate is a capable manager.
I think that's a little revisionist. Belgium were a better side then than they are now, and on top of expected wins against Tunisia and Panama we beat a dangerous Columbia (on pens!) and were comfortable winners against a competent Sweden, before being knocked out by Croatia in a game we were on top of for long periods. The third place play off is neither here nor there.

Again, I'm not arguing for Southgate to get special treatment for that. Just that he has deservedly had the benefit of the doubt up to now, but it's rightly come to an end. It's time for him to put up or shut up. What's the plan Gareth? New waistcoat?
 

TEESSIDE1

Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
Jul 3, 2006
15,089
18,780
We were basically given a free ride to the semis and still repeatedly struggled. There is no evidence to suggest Southgate is a capable manager.

The Croatia game highlighted Southgate’s complete lack of tactical and in-game knowledge. We were getting murdered in central midfield yet his response was to bring another striker on. Stop Modric and co and we would have made the final but no we gave them all the time in the world to reek havoc in the 2nd half.

Southgate’s a piss poor manager he always has been. I remember when he managed Middlesbrough and the fans were bored to tears with his football and his inability to react when his one and only tactic wasn’t going to plan.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
I think that's a little revisionist. Belgium were a better side then than they are now, and on top of expected wins against Tunisia and Panama we beat a dangerous Columbia (on pens!) and were comfortable winners against a competent Sweden, before being knocked out by Croatia in a game we were on top of for long periods. The third place play off is neither here nor there.

Again, I'm not arguing for Southgate to get special treatment for that. Just that he has deservedly had the benefit of the doubt up to now, but it's rightly come to an end. It's time for him to put up or shut up. What's the plan Gareth? New waistcoat?
Dangerous Columbia, lol, their best player was injured and didn't play. Sanchez was literally their highlight from the tournament the rest were meh at best. They may have been dangerous cause they had a pulse lol

Competent Sweden - they were shit, anyone I dare you to argue with me on this, hypothetically if you had same manager on both teams and take out the variables of tactics and etc. England are by far the better team. I mean they had championship players in their team FFS

Then even Croatia, I know people love modric and he is great but when you combat him with a midfield 3 of Alli, Henderson and Lingaard. Harry Winks would run rings against these guys, two of whom have no tactical discipline whatsoever and we added Walker at CB and Young at LWB
 
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gavspur

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,256
8,686
How long can he live off the press hype for the World Cup TWO years ago?

I’d rather stick Harry Redknapp in charge and get some exciting football going.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
I personally don't like Southgate because as England U21 manager he would favour players who were from the academies of the Big 4 teams but never played any real football whilst someone like Harry Kane got few opportunities and was jigsawed around people like Berahino because they were the hot thing

Chalobah averaged 13 games a season but has over 40 caps for England u21 because he played for Chelsea(most capped u21 player) - fun fact he's only played over 40 games in the league once for one of his clubs lol, its these type of selections that annoyed me

He also finished bottom of his euro groups in 2015 and wasn't in charge in 2017 when they did well
 
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Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
Dangerous Columbia, lol, their best player was injured and didn't play. Sanchez was literally their highlight from the tournament the rest were meh at best. They may have been dangerous cause they had a pulse lol

Competent Sweden - they were shit, anyone I dare you to argue with me on this, hypothetically if you had same manager on both teams and take out the variables of tactics and etc. England are by far the better team. I mean they had championship players in their team FFS

Then even Croatia, I know people love modric and he is great but when you combat him with a midfield 3 of Alli, Henderson and Lingaard. Harry Winks would run rings against these guys, two of whom have no tactical discipline whatsoever and we added Walker at CB and Young at LWB

100%, the only think Southgate got right is the togetherness in the squad, something that every other England manager had failed to do, other than that he didn't really have to do much to stand out, when he came up against quality opposition he looked totally average.
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,262
21,761
How long can he live off the press hype for the World Cup TWO years ago?

I’d rather stick Harry Redknapp in charge and get some exciting football going.

Harry Redknapp is not a bad shout actually.

I think it would suit him now and he may get them playing some better football.
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,262
21,761
That is an awful away kit as well,

Between that and the dodgy round colour on the home shirt, Nike really have produced some shit kits this year.

Maybe it’s so next years ones when they go back to clean stylish designs they look even better Then the current ones!
 

whitesocks

The past means nothing. This is a message for life
Jan 16, 2014
4,652
5,738
Couldnt watch the game but all reports I'm reading is Kane looked unfit. Is that correct?
A comment on the guardian report had Kane taking off his armband in the second half in expectation of being subbed. Possibly that was the arrangement he had come to with southgate before the game,
It seems reasonable as there were questions of kane's fitness, so having him work harder as 1 of a 10 surely ensured he would come off early.
Southgate of course leaves him on for the full 90+ minutes.
It is disrespectful to the player and as mourinho might say, disrespectful to our club too.
It is odd, as spurs have given more players to southgate's england than any other I can think of. He should be thankful.
 

RikkiRocket

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2015
1,605
3,277
Feel a bit sorry for Southgate though. Injuries to Sterling, Kane, Winks, Chilwell, Dier, the Covid issues for Abraham, and Sancho, Trippier withdrawn for betting issues but Maguire's fit and healthy to play.

Betting Issues? He bet on Maguire to get sent off? ?
 

Frozen_Waffles

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2005
3,760
9,505
Something about Southgate really unsettles me, he is an uninspiring manager and his teams are starting to just bore me. Don't really know how he got the job in the first place as he was a terrible league manager.

I only watched it today for Kane but really bored by it, amazingly enough I was enjoying watching PEH and eriksen more in midfield together than anything England had on show.

Maybe I am getting old, but struggling to care much about this England team. The midfield is just so turgid. Sancho is more functional than entertaining, Rashford just shoots, just nothing really to enjoy.

Nations league means nothing to menas well, honestly think the peace cup was better.

Anyway pl football back so we can forget about that rubbish for a few months.
 

Wsussexspur

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2007
8,918
10,176
England are rapidly regressing under Southgate the football is turgid and horrendously boring to watch! England have been a struggle to watch at the best of times outside international tournaments for years but it’s now got to a point where personally I’m just not interested in watching the games anymore due to the negative Selection the continuous picking of his favourite players no matter what form they are in and negative tactics being employed.


I’ve always said I think England will struggle at the Euros under Southgate and it will be very interesting to see if he still the media darling after the Euros or if the knives are out and the calls to replace him begin.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
I think that's a little revisionist. Belgium were a better side then than they are now, and on top of expected wins against Tunisia and Panama we beat a dangerous Columbia (on pens!) and were comfortable winners against a competent Sweden, before being knocked out by Croatia in a game we were on top of for long periods. The third place play off is neither here nor there.

Again, I'm not arguing for Southgate to get special treatment for that. Just that he has deservedly had the benefit of the doubt up to now, but it's rightly come to an end. It's time for him to put up or shut up. What's the plan Gareth? New waistcoat?

It is revisionist. Go back and read through the comments on here before or during the world cup. No-one thought we had a chance of getting to the semis. Lots of people didn't think we'd get out of the group. There were obvious issues with the team, with lots of people on here saying it was the worst group of players to pick from in years. To his credit Southgate came up with a plan and a system to get the most out of those players and we progressed further than anyone expected. Now people are suggesting that it was an easy progression that we should've expected.

How long can he live off the press hype for the World Cup TWO years ago?

I’d rather stick Harry Redknapp in charge and get some exciting football going.

He's hardly been living off the world cup for the last two years. You make out like we're losing every game. We've qualified for the Euros with a record number of points and goals, we've got to the Nations League semi finals, we've ended one of the best records in International football when we became the first team to beat Spain in Spain in fifteen years. So we've had some good results, and we've had some bad results - beaten by The Netherlands in the N.L. Semi final and by the Czech Republic in the Euros - it's not been the awful mess that many are making out.

100%, the only think Southgate got right is the togetherness in the squad, something that every other England manager had failed to do, other than that he didn't really have to do much to stand out, when he came up against quality opposition he looked totally average.

I think he's got a lot of the qualities that you need to be a good International manager. He's good with the press, he plans and prepares really well, he seems to motivate the team and the players seemed loyal to him (or he did until recently) and they actually seem to enjoy their time away with the National team now. His big flaw is he's not a great tactician which is a big problem. I think he could do with an older more experienced head to help with that side of the game, but I can't see him doing it as it would undermine his authority.
 

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2018
19,153
30,013
I'm not someone prone to kneejerk reactions. I like Southgate as a person, and anyone who gets any country to a WC semi final deserves the benefit of the doubt. England were missing players and as a consequence were necessarily unbalanced.

However, I cannot for the life of me understand why we set up that negatively at home after beating, supposedly, the best team in the world, and against a side whose main creative talent is a somewhat off-form Eriksen, who cannot get a game for his club side. We had two of the most exciting young players in Europe in Sancho and Grealish on the bench, while we play two DMs, including a guy from Leeds who has surely not convinced in that position. We also play Mount who, lets be fair, is decent and has potential, but is relatively one-dimensional in Sancho's position. Sancho has been ripping it up in Germany for two years.

I'm concerned Southgate has no killer instinct. We should have gone for them tonight. We were playing Denmark at home, not bloody Brazil away. I'm moving quite quickly to thinking he has reached the end of the road.

In agreement, he isnt helping himself. I do like him but all we want as England fans is to move away from what has been done in the past. We have some great players but at the moment the team is lesser than the sum of its parts.

Even with our injuries and issues, we still have creativity but choosing to play the way we are with the players we have is not great.
 

Gbspurs

Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
Jan 27, 2011
26,946
61,828
Couldnt watch the game but all reports I'm reading is Kane looked unfit. Is that correct?

I can only assume people thought this because he was short for a few excellent crosses from Reece James but I'd say it was more a sign of him not being familiar with Reece James style of crossing rather than fitness.
 

buckley

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2012
2,595
6,073
Kane looked to me like he always does and that is slow . His brilliance lies somewhere else namely his head he has at this moment in time the brightest quickest brain in football which more than makes up for not being the quickest player .
Why is it whenever he plays for England or Spurs and the team or him does not score you get " he looks unfit " or "he looks off the pace "
or " he looks like he is carrying an injury " ?. For myself he is the most reliable and intelligent player out there at this moment in time and I would not change him for any other player.
 

Albertbarich

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2020
5,082
19,484
I've never liked him.

The whole set up is rotten. Forget southgate for a second why the fuck is boothroyd there? The clubs have built these world class facilities and they're genuinely producing brilliant talent but then they get called up to an England under 21 side to be coached by what id politely describe as an absolute dinosaur. A disgraceful appointment and even more baffling that somehow he has kept it.

So when you think about southgate is it surprising that we have at best an under qualified coach and at worst one that like boothroyd is wasting talent .

Onto southgate. His main attribute seems to be his ability to speak well to the media. You can imagine him shining in corporate settings too. Beyond that though we have a failed Middlesbrough manager who was an average player that has somehow bagged himself the biggest job in the country.

After slaughtering him though I will somewhat defend him. I can see what he thinks he is doing. Prepare now for the worst. Play mega defensive now so when it comes to the tournament he can sneak in results, almost mourinho like. The trouble is I'm not sure any of us can see him pulling it off. The team is unbalanced and lacking energy and creativity .

Heres my biggest issue. International football isn't really suited to deep tactical thinking. You don't get every day on the training field so experimenting and trying to master 2 or 3 tactical solutions is just making the players jobs twice as hard. Its why Harry redknapp is the perfect man for it. Keep it simple and motivate the team. We actually have a talent pool of players that could go toe to toe with any side so play them to their strengths as opposed to shoehorning them into a formation they don't know and arent suited to.

Id say he has to go but its the FA and boothroyd still has a job so this only ends with at best a tournament failure, at worse two or more - see Boothroyd.
 
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